Островная крепость Хммм

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Xmmm
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:56 pm

I'm not sure if the Welsh experiment will continue. Initially I was impressed at the rate of progress and what I could say with SSiW, but now I'm frustrated and feeling like a bit of a monkey.

With the Steve Kaufmann approach (basically what I followed for Russian) ... it took a year and a half, but I can say whatever I want to say, subject to the limitation that I may not have the vocabulary and might make a few grammatical mistakes. But I can put a Russian thought together in my head without stress.

With the Aran Jones approach ... I'm very much a trained monkey. Introduce the slightest variation, and I'm at a loss how to proceed. Obviously if I continue and finish the remaining 46 lessons and get a tutor I'll improve and feel like less of a monkey over time, but the Kaufmann approach is much more pleasant. Maybe if someone was paying me a million dollars if I could learn Welsh before the end of the year, it would be worth the aggravation. Maybe I'll continue and maybe I won't. I don't have a compelling interest in Welsh.

***

The reason I don't understand Russian TV shows particularly well is that they use an awful lot of verbs ... of the sort I don't run into in my normal reading very often.


Сейчас я знаю, почему я не хорошо понимаю сериалы.

Я смотрел несколько еписодов «Ленинград 46». Когда я не понимал, я записал, что я слушал. Это почте все глаголы. Бандиты и полиция все очень краткий и говорят только с глаголами. И я не знаю этих глаголов.

продалжай -- continue
пaжелел -- regretted
таракак -- cockroach (ок, это имя существительное)
предадит -- will betray
прождает -- awaits
заткажусь -- refuse
удивлен -- surprised
пережил -- survived
пропал -- disappeared
аказавается -- turns out
предаётся -- indulged
собираемся -- (we are) going
преиграешь -- you will lose
провожаете -- see off
погоди -- wait a minute
спешу -- hurry
сдал -- passed (died?)



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it: Language Transfer (10/45)
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Arnaud
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Arnaud » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:58 am

Xmmm wrote:
The reason I don't understand Russian TV shows particularly well is that they use an awful lot of verbs ... of the sort I don't run into in my normal reading very often.


продалжай -- continue
пожелел -- regretted
таракак -- cockroach (ок, это имя существительное)
предадит -- will betray
прождает -- awaits
заткажусь -- refuse
удивлен -- surprised
пережил -- survived
пропал -- disappeared
оказавается -- turns out
предаётся -- indulged
собираемся -- (we are) going
преиграешь -- you will lose
провожаете -- see off
погоди -- wait a minute
спешу -- hurry
сдал -- passed (died?)

отказать(ся) - to refuse (prefix от (idea of moving away) + root каз to express, to seem)
проиграть - to loose (to win - выиграть, both verbs based on играть, to play, with the prefix про and вы)
таракан - cockroach (met in Ruslan 1, a basic course).
удивлен -- surprised (short form coming from удивить - to surprise)
спешить - to hurry/to be in a hurry (heard it in Michel Thomas basic course, if I remember correctly)

Except one or two, these verbs are very common. Like a lot of students of russian (including myself, of course), you lack vocabulary. It's always the same problem with that language, you keep on adding vocab to your arsenal but it's never enough 8-)
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Xmmm
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:14 pm

Arnaud wrote:Except one or two, these verbs are very common. Like a lot of students of russian (including myself, of course), you lack vocabulary. It's always the same problem with that language, you keep on adding vocab to your arsenal but it's never enough 8-)


Two things I think I did wrong in the past:

1. Silent reading. Even something like даёшь, which I've seen a thousand times, gave me fits trying to understand it in Leningrad 46. If it had appeared in the infinitive form it would have sounded like "daht" and I would have understood. As it was, I was running around saying "what is 'daiyosh?'". So some of the verbs on the list I would 'know' if I read them, but I don't know them if I hear them.

2. I read Особое мнение transcripts a lot. It seems like that is actually a very specialized type of discourse. I say something like "I think the growth in the rate of inflation will be high", and you say something like "don't you think the fall in the price of oil will improve the situation?" There's plenty of new vocabulary, but there's really a shortage of action verbs in that type of conversation. I guess it's about as far from TV drama (and real life) as you can get with two people talking.
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blaurebell
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby blaurebell » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:25 pm

I always put lots of focus on pronunciation and listening, so I don't normally have problems in that respect. I did the Grabriel Wyner pronunciation trainer, which is less pronunciation and more minimal pairs listening drills, I found it very useful. It's not particularly long, maybe 10h of anki in total. Otherwise I'd still be lost even telling apart ш щ ч or т vs ть and I would have wasted so much more time while trying to correct pronunciation mistakes that I can't even hear properly. And then with the unpredictable stress in Russian I actually decided from the start to listen to every new word I encounter in intensive reading. The lingvolive pronunciations are decent where available and where not available I use either the Mac TTS or forvo. It's such a quick thing to do, that I don't lose any time with it. I usually only listen to the infinitive or nominative, but it seems to work quite well nevertheless. I'm also listening to an audiobook on the side and I don't have any problems recognising the words I know. It's only the unknown vocabulary that still causes lots of gaps in understanding. The way it should be!
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Xmmm
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:50 am

Я продолжаю смотреть «Ленинград 46» во второй раз. Сейчас, я знаю как сказать все, что важно по-русский. «Руки!», «тихо, тихо, тихо!», и так далее. Это прекрасный сериал, потому что персонаж Игор Данилов трагический герой. Когда я смотрю, я спрашиваю себя «что он мог делать по-другому?» Я не вижу ничего. Его бывшая жена, Лудмилла, халкая и отвратительная. На первый взгляд, она кажется, что она хороша. Но, на самом деле, она слабая и очень любит деньги. Когда она сказат «Ты виноват, что ты бандит», он ничего не сказат, только «продолжае». Слава Богу, что Вера появляется позже, хотя эта история печальна по-другому.

Я читал все «скверный анекдот». Я хохотал и хихикал. Я тоже читаю « Голова профессора Доуэля».



Sto leggendo Pinocchio in italiano. Il libro è meglio che il film. Io non so perché LingQ ha Anna Karenina in italiano, ma non in russo. Ma ora sto leggendo Anna Karenina anche. Ieri sera ho guardato Il Commissario Montalbano #4.



"Vatanim Sensin" seviyorum. Anlamak istiyorum. Zor!
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blaurebell
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby blaurebell » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:01 pm

Xmmm wrote:Я хохотал и хихикал.


Right now my favourite two words in Russian! They made me laugh out laud when they came up in the sound drills in Modern Russian. :lol:
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IronMike
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby IronMike » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:56 am

Xmmm wrote:[color=#800000]Когда она сказат «Ты виноват, что ты бандит», он ничего не сказат, только «продолжае». Слава Богу, что Вера появляется позже, хотя эта история печальна по-другому.


There's no such word as сказат. If you mean "When she says..." then it is better to say "Когда она говорит." (несовершенный вид vice совершенный вид.) Similarly, продолжае. Missing something there. Is he perhaps answering "продолжаем" or "продолжаю"?

Hope you don't mind... ;)
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:41 pm

IronMike wrote:
Xmmm wrote:[color=#800000]Когда она сказат «Ты виноват, что ты бандит», он ничего не сказат, только «продолжае». Слава Богу, что Вера появляется позже, хотя эта история печальна по-другому.


There's no such word as сказат. If you mean "When she says..." then it is better to say "Когда она говорит." (несовершенный вид vice совершенный вид.) Similarly, продолжае. Missing something there. Is he perhaps answering "продолжаем" or "продолжаю"?

Hope you don't mind... ;)


сказат felt wrong when I wrote it. Should have thought twice. :)

Imperative. (You) continue! продолжай?
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IronMike
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby IronMike » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:41 pm

Xmmm wrote:Imperative. (You) continue! продолжай?

Ah! You spelled it продолжае, that's why I was confused!
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Xmmm
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:49 am

I've read 1.5 million words in Russian, and I passively know a little less than 15,000 words.

I've read 100,000 words in Italian, and I passively know more than 4,000 words.

This seems to indicate that it's roughly four times harder to acquire vocabulary in Russian than it is in Italian. Mostly this is due to cognates but I think it also has to do with the fact that 90% of Russian verbs are six syllables long and start with the letter п. :)

For Russian, I'm reading Голова профессора Доуэля. Neofight78 mentioned it and then about a day later it popped up with a garish cover in my книги бесплатно phone app. It's a ridiculous story but entertainingly told and the writing is straightforward.

For Italian, I'm thrilled to be reading Il deserto dei Tartari and listening along with the great recordings by Lorenzo Pieri that kamlari found. It was strange to read that Dino Buzzati is a huge name in Italy, as big as Calvino apparently, and pretty big in France -- but almost unheard of in English speaking countries. I wonder if it has to do with the awful translation of the book's title. To me, "The Desert of the Tartars" would sound very mysterioso and intriguing, whereas "The Tartar Steppe" (actual title in English) sounds like a college textbook for a central Asian botany or sociology class.



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