Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

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snowflake
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:41 pm

Mminer, thanks for the idea. Though I generally try to avoid what can be construed as political associations with the mainland or Taiwan. Part of that is due to having friends who are from both places. By numbers, most of my native Mandarin speaking friends are from the mainland. I’ve visited Taiwan several times mostly due to circumstances which have made it easier to visit there.
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:53 pm

I’ve started telling more of my Mandarin speaking friends about wanting to take the mentioned classes in Taiwan. They have been discouraging me, some outright saying don’t take those classes. One intensified her efforts to talk with me in Mandarin. Another was lukewarm and then invited me to meetings which focus on the type of subject matter that would be covered in those classes in Taiwan.

As part of this push forward, I was going to work through “Chinese Dialogues”, an older 2nd year university text, focusing on grammar but could not find an answer key for the exercises. So I have ordered a traditional character version of “David and Helen In China”. Afterwards, I’m thinking of using either “Taiwan Today” or “Far East Everyday Chinese Book 3”. I need to decide soon as it would be easier and cheaper to get “Far East Everyday Chinese Book 3” in Taiwan.
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 am

lorinth wrote:Hello Snowflake,
graded traditional Chinese readers


Any title or suggestions? I'll be in Taipei just for 1 week next month, so I'd like to purchase some while I'm there...



I just came across a series of graded readers in traditional Chinese called 中文讀本. If you search on 中文讀本 at the Kingstone site, they will be the first 6 entries returned. These come with MP3 audio.
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby lorinth » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:57 am

Thanks snowflake, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for!

Edit: apparently the whole series is available as PDFs here.
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Gu Long's 陸小鳳傳奇 : 40 / 100
Rouzer's A New Practical Primer of Literary Chinese : 9 / 40
Le finnois sans peine : 18 / 100
Tavataan Taas 2 : 12 / 30

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snowflake
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:53 pm

lorinth wrote:Thanks snowflake, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for!

Edit: apparently the whole series is available as PDFs here.


Hi Lorinth, thanks for the link. These look like AP text books which is a pleasant surprize! The books listed at the Kingstone site have publication dates of Dec 2009 and are 32 to 56 pages. The PDFs are 106 to 139 pages and full of exercises including working sentence patterns. Anyhow a great find!
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:17 pm

Lately I’ve been having a motivation “melt-down” due to lack of sleep. It’s pretty bad timing given that I go to Taiwan in less than a month.

Went through my hard copy traditional character books;
• graded readers
........1. Yale Mirror Series covering beginning through advance levels. I have a number of advance level graded readers due to collecting these second hand.
........2. Set of 12 primary school readers which a friend gave me a long time back. I think these may no longer be in print.
........3. An advance level reader from Indiana University, maybe post-advance level? It seems to be in the vein of the Yale Mirror Series.
........4. Tales and Traditions Vol 1
• 40+ books which range from comics, kids’ fiction to non-fiction written for adults. Of the kids’ books, 10 have Bopomofo.

I’m going through the second Yale Mirror Series graded reader and have started Tales and Traditions Vol 1. For the former, the older vocabulary aside (電報, etc) the 說法 seems a bit strange after reading online novels. I’ve also started working “David and Helen in China”.

I’m wavering on taking those classes in Taiwan and am mulling about taking the ACTFL OPI.

Since using the progress bars tends to be motivating.....

: 548 / 3000 2016 Output Challenge - Audio
: 104 / 104 : 13 / 104 : 0 / 104 Glossika Fluency 123
: 76 / 104 : 1 / 20 Glossika Travel : Review
: 9 / 15 Read Chinese, Book 2 (Yale Mirror Series)
: 1 / 23 Tales and Traditions Vol 1
: 0 / 18 David and Helen In China
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:21 pm

Quick post; Leave tomorrow for Taiwan, am stressing, thought I was ready but then…… I plan to get my hair cut there, got it cut there last year (Taiwanese style). Talked to Taiwanese female friend here about what to say at the hairdresser's but when my overseas Taiwanese chat partner (S) asked, he was correcting tones as I used mainland tones. The female friend overlooks mainland tones because she’s here. S also quibbled about the terms that the woman gave me to use.... Don’t know if that’s a generational difference (she's older, he's younger) or maybe the difference between a man and a woman getting a haircut. It’s making me think again about juggling mainland and Taiwanese Mandarin. It also makes me wonder how ACTFL OPI evaluators handle that.
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:48 am

Ramblings….Back from Taiwan and taking steps to get back into a routine.

Visited several book stores in Taiwan and friends also gave me books so I came back with a lot of material. As I brought along only one bag, a friend loaned another one for the return trip. Unfortunately, my luggage was overweight so some of the freebies were left behind. Included in the purchases were books on my hobbies in anticipation of taking the ACTFL OPI next year.

The perception of “speaks a language” is interesting….some (American) people in my group labeled me as speaking Mandarin and were baffled when I was unable to understand something. There was a person (K) in the group who spent 3 years in mainland China teaching English and put his Mandarin at conversational. I arrived a day earlier than the group and met them at the airport terminal. They had arranged for a bus to take us to our destination. I contacted the bus driver when we were ready to be picked up. We didn’t realize that there is a separate area for loading buses so a long wait and several phone calls later I gave the cell phone to K thinking his Mandarin was probably better. He had no luck understanding what was said either so the bus driver found someone who supposedly knew English but then K couldn’t understand what was said. What we should have done is given the phone to a different member of our group, A who is a native Mandarin speaker from the Philippines (we didn’t know that at the time). An airport worker, who saw us waiting with our luggage and cartons, told us that the bus loading area is in a different place. It was A who understood what the worker was saying.

A’s Mandarin would be labeled proficient since he functions at a very high level. Even then I remember A giving a very detailed explanation about something then asking D, a local, whether his (A’s) explanation made sense. D’s response was 有點不順利 which made me laugh. In any case, like last year I saw Americans who have been in Taiwan 20ish years whose Mandarin is at pretty high levels though they still occasionally struggle.

The Taiwanese language exchange prospect from late spring/early summer seems to have dried up. I signed up for conversation lessons with a Taiwanese iTalki instructor who did her university studies in the mainland, including a masters in linguistics. Her background may be overkill for what I need right now though we’re still in early stages. Anyhow, upfront I mentioned my plan to take the ACTFL OPI at the end of next year. This instructor would like to revamp my pronunciation. This is not a few sounds as she listed Ci, Zi, Si, zhi, chi, shi, j, q, and x. I’m really balking at the effort and energy involved, both initially and long term. Unless there are substantial benefits my inclination is to not rework my pronunciation.
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:43 pm

Mullings.... Given how language changes over time, expatriates because they are geographically isolated from the “main body of culture” tend to live in sort of a time bubble. I’ve seen the bubble shift as people visit overseas or interact with a lot of recent immigrants. The latter tends to result in less or slower change (if any) than the former though a large influx of immigrants can pretty rapidly shift the bubble. In part I’m thinking about these as advance level language textbooks tend to focus more on understanding the culture. Now-a-days I tend to find reading about Chinese culture, aside from current news, to be rather academic. I’m also thinking about this in relation to what level of cultural understanding do I need as I most likely will never move overseas.

On that note, there are relatively recent news articles about “left behind children” in the mainland (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35994481, http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-a ... d-children). In part these caught my eye as I encountered what is probably the Taiwanese equivalent during this past trip though what I saw was milder compared to what is mentioned in the articles. These all resulted in a long conversation with my overseas Taiwanese chat partner about other mainland news and whether Taiwan has the same issues. In particular I was asking about school age children committing suicide due to academic pressure and use of IV drips while studying for major tests. He said yes Taiwan also has some school age children committing suicide due to the pressure, and no to use of the IV drips.

The iTalki instructor was still trying to talk me into working on pronunciation going forward. I was wondering if her persistence was due to having taught in mainland universities since the mainland powers that be tend to emphasize standard accents. After I explained to the instructor why it’s relatively unimportant to me, she seems to have backed off. Forum members may be surprised at my lack of concern but between being ethnic Chinese and the many regional accents, native Mandarin speakers upon meeting me tend to automatically assume that I am a native speaker. When in Taiwan this last time, the natives often would have a look of disbelief when I mentioned being an American. One person forgot I am American born and said that my Mandarin is weak because I’ve been in the US too long. Because of the instructors’ concerns, I talked with friends to understand how they view my pronunciation and accent. Some were a bit taken aback that someone wanted to “fix it”.

After recently being bombarded with Taiwanese accents I’m back to watching mainland dramas.

In getting back into a routine, I’ve been focusing on…
1. “David and Helen in China”; My pace is slower than I’d like but that probably can’t be helped.
2. Glossika audio; Currently chorusing Fluency 2 and thinking through a schedule to review Fluency 1 and the Travel audio clips.
3. Reviewing iTalki lessons and doing associated homework
Unfortunately working the graded readers is suffering. I’ve been doing some leisure reading of online books which happen to use 簡體字.... probably should look for the 繁體 versions.

I’m mulling through how to manage sentence patterns in the sense of reminding myself to use those in conversation. My current thinking is to make audio clips and chorus those. Part of what chorusing Glossika does for me is help make various patterns and vocabulary habitual though given my horrid memory a ton of repetition is needed. So given the needed amount of repetition and the large amount of audio, I have been looking for ways to make things more manageable. I also need to think through how to use the Mandarin audio from my English phrase books.

Under that’s interesting....my adult son made an observation about my chopstick skills when we were in Taiwan 2 years ago. My son said that I handle chopsticks totally different from the Taiwanese that we met then. I learned how to use chopsticks growing up. My parents regularly assessed me and I have less than wonderful memories about that. This past trip to Taiwan, I again visited with my overseas chat partner. He observed that my handling of chopsticks is 標準 unlike him and his wife. So we spend some time comparing then he asked if I can pick up red beans. Cooked or raw? Cooked. Yes I can though it’s very annoying to do that. His reaction was WOW! He said that the characteristic of 標準 chopstick skills is that red (azuki) beans can be picked up.


: 3 / 36 David and Helen In China
: 32 / 104 Glossika Fluency 2
: 574 / 3000 2016 Output Challenge - Audio
: 10 / 15 Read Chinese, Book 2 (Yale Mirror Series)
: 2 / 23 Tales and Traditions Vol 1
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Re: Snowflake's Mandarin Log - Continued

Postby snowflake » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:25 pm

I’m having motivation issues. It seems to be typical after returning from Taiwan that I lament about my Mandarin skills which makes me
Bang head here ==> X.

I’m also a bit down about my slow pace going through “David and Helen in China”. And in this I’ve been thinking through what might be a better approach to retaining material. My overseas Taiwanese chat partner points out that what’s more important is retention. I noticed that if I spent time mulling through a particular grammar structure, then it’s remembered well enough to use in conversation. Given that there generally are 5-7 grammar structures in each chapter, doing this mulling probably means that I will take a year or more to complete this textbook. This is not happy news but then given the importance of knowing the structures, I probably have to accept that this is how things are going to be.

There is a recent Glossika discussion prompted by someone lamenting that he couldn’t answer simple questions even when he understood the question. Michael Campbell’s response mentioned assessing after 30,000, 60,000, and 90,000 reps. Other than the FSI number of hours and 10,000 sentences, I rarely hear numbers mentioned. I’ll have to daily do about 2 GSR files for another year to hit 90,000.

The prior items brought to mind that it’s mentioned in “Keeping My Mandarin Alive; Lee Kuan Yew's Language Learning Experience” that it took him 13-17 years before being comfortable giving speeches in Mandarin. Some people might think that timeframe is no longer relevant given better availability of materials though I doubt that resources were an issue for him.

I’ve started listening to the Mandarin audio for 史上最強英語會話8000 and occasionally chorusing. This is casual like listening to ripped movie audio while driving.

I attended a memorial service this past weekend for someone from one of my Mandarin speaking groups who passed away. There was a little set up with a photograph (5x7 matted in 8x10 frame?) of the person and a small flower arrangement in front of the photo. This was at a church. There was no incense like there might be with an ancestor worship or Buddhist ceremony and definitely no monks nor lamas chanting and playing instruments. At the end of the service everyone was given a rose and we individually passed in front of the photo, placing the flower on the table where the photograph and flower arrangement was. For the people I watched, all but one person bowed in front of the photo. I can't help but compare to prior ceremonies both here in the US and overseas which includes Buddhist and ones where the participants actively engage in ancestor worship and perhaps worship gods like 媽祖.

There’s an OPIc demo test at http://opicdemo.actfltesting.org/ ... have not gotten around to trying it yet.

I'm doing some writing as part of the iTalki lessons and am wondering if I should measure those somehow. The instructor just asked me to revise all my past assignments in addition to two new ones. These tend to be brief, generally writing stories about provided pictures. Sometimes I am asked to use specific grammar structures.

: 5 / 36 David and Helen In China
: 104 / 104 : 42 / 104 : 0 / 104 Glossika Fluency 123
: 92 / 104 Glossika Travel
: 7812 / 90000 Chorusing Using Glossika – Goal is 90,000 Repetitions
: 574 / 3000 2016 Output Challenge - Audio
: 10 / 15 Read Chinese, Book 2 (Yale Mirror Series)
: 3 / 23 Tales and Traditions Vol 1
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