PM's Target Europe - FR, NL and on again off again NO

[PeterMollenburg]

Once again I have dropped Norwegian. It wasn't easy but in the wake of a record breaking month of learning, as a good friend of mine said, 'reality rears its ugly head'. I dropped Norwegian on his wise recommendation as I need to be more present with my family. This is the reality of language learning - time constraints and important things and people that require our presence...

So 5am starts remain. Dutch and French continue but I'm almost considering dropping Dutch and returning to unfinished French business. More time for French would mean filling in French gaps, sitting the C-level exams and... and.. we'll see, I guess. Anyone care to comment? I'll ponder it as I doze off..

[tastyonions]

Have you considered doing some kind of alternating schedule, putting intense focus on only one language at a time and using the others for "lightweight" activities like pure pleasure reading, watching videos, or chatting casually? That's what I've been doing for the past month, having made German my "main" language, and I feel like it's helping me avoid the burnout I used to feel when I was trying to do "intensive" activities in all my languages all the time.

[vegantraveller]

Have you considered doing some kind of alternating schedule, putting intense focus on only one language at a time and using the others for "lightweight" activities like pure pleasure reading, watching videos, or chatting casually? That's what I've been doing for the past month, having made German my "main" language, and I feel like it's helping me avoid the burnout I used to feel when I was trying to do "intensive" activities in all my languages all the time.

I agree with tastyonions. It would just be a pity to drop off entirely two languages you have invested time and effort in. For example, when I wanted to focus on Japanese only in the past, I used to do some lightweight activities in German, too, just to keep it alive, without the specific aim at progressing in it. It definitely helped a lot when I focused again on German again because I needed it for my job. At the beginning I was a bit rusty, especially when speaking, but in a couple of months I was back again to normal fluency, and even improved it.

[Gustav Aschenbach]

I need to be more present with my family.

Wise decision. This years will never come back...

Anyone care to comment?

I would continue French and do some Dutch, the latter in a relaxed fashion (30 minutes per day maximum). It's a relatively easy language for Germanic speakers and maintaining/slowly improving shouldn't require a lot of time. Norwegian I would only do with a concrete objective in mind. I would definitely continue French because you've already reached a high level and invested a lot of time in it. Why don't you go to the French speaking part of Belgium? You don't need any Dutch at all there, same for Brussels.

[PeterMollenburg]

Have you considered doing some kind of alternating schedule, putting intense focus on only one language at a time and using the others for "lightweight" activities like pure pleasure reading, watching videos, or chatting casually? That's what I've been doing for the past month, having made German my "main" language, and I feel like it's helping me avoid the burnout I used to feel when I was trying to do "intensive" activities in all my languages all the time.

Great idea! It saves me doing a full restart of Dutch when I feel like delving into some solid Dutch study again. Given Dutch is now a family language that I speak every second day to my children and read to them, I will drop the Dutch study time and continue with those activities to keep the language alive. I'mgoing to return to my other log for a while. Thanks, tastyonions.

I need to be more present with my family.

Wise decision. This years will never come back...

Anyone care to comment?

I would continue French and do some Dutch, the latter in a relaxed fashion (30 minutes per day maximum). It's a relatively easy language for Germanic speakers and maintaining/slowly improving shouldn't require a lot of time. Norwegian I would only do with a concrete objective in mind. I would definitely continue French because you've already reached a high level and invested a lot of time in it. Why don't you go to the French speaking part of Belgium? You don't need any Dutch at all there, same for Brussels.

Yep, time to take some pressure off and return to solid French study with a somewhat reduced desk study schedule with some light Dutch activities. Wallonia and Brussels are fine by me. Thanks for your comments, Gustav Aschenbach.

[PeterMollenburg]

Have you considered doing some kind of alternating schedule, putting intense focus on only one language at a time and using the others for "lightweight" activities like pure pleasure reading, watching videos, or chatting casually? That's what I've been doing for the past month, having made German my "main" language, and I feel like it's helping me avoid the burnout I used to feel when I was trying to do "intensive" activities in all my languages all the time.

Great idea! It saves me doing a full restart of Dutch when I feel like delving into some solid Dutch study again. Given Dutch is now a family language that I speak every second day to my children and read to them, I will drop the Dutch study time and continue with those activities to keep the language alive. I'mgoing to return to my other log for a while. Thanks, tastyonions.

Have you considered doing some kind of alternating schedule, putting intense focus on only one language at a time and using the others for "lightweight" activities like pure pleasure reading, watching videos, or chatting casually? That's what I've been doing for the past month, having made German my "main" language, and I feel like it's helping me avoid the burnout I used to feel when I was trying to do "intensive" activities in all my languages all the time.

I agree with tastyonions. It would just be a pity to drop off entirely two languages you have invested time and effort in. For example, when I wanted to focus on Japanese only in the past, I used to do some lightweight activities in German, too, just to keep it alive, without the specific aim at progressing in it. It definitely helped a lot when I focused again on German again because I needed it for my job. At the beginning I was a bit rusty, especially when speaking, but in a couple of months I was back again to normal fluency, and even improved it.

Yep, I'm glad the responses here are 'giving me the permission' I need to proceed under a French only study plan that keeps Dutch alive. Thanks, vegantraveller.

I need to be more present with my family.

Wise decision. This years will never come back...

Anyone care to comment?

I would continue French and do some Dutch, the latter in a relaxed fashion (30 minutes per day maximum). It's a relatively easy language for Germanic speakers and maintaining/slowly improving shouldn't require a lot of time. Norwegian I would only do with a concrete objective in mind. I would definitely continue French because you've already reached a high level and invested a lot of time in it. Why don't you go to the French speaking part of Belgium? You don't need any Dutch at all there, same for Brussels.

Yep, time to take some pressure off and return to solid French study with a somewhat reduced desk study schedule with some light Dutch activities. Wallonia and Brussels are fine by me. Thanks for your comments, Gustav Aschenbach.

[PeterMollenburg]

French
Just plodding along with my French of late. Struggling with so much on my plate lately outside of language studies. We all have harder times but it's not the end of the world, just a bit trickier. Contemplating foregoing some French study time to get extra sleep. We'll see. I've also been battling a computer issue for two days that just never seems to stop *********g me over no matter which angle I try to attack it from. Mind you I'm a computer dimwit, really. I hate computers!!! (translation: I hate the fact I cannot resolve computer issues easily). I really feel like throwing it. Actually there's a certain political figure that I'd prefer to throw it at, to put it lightly. Yeah, I'm a bit angry of late, hence I need more repose.

I continue to build the children's home library gradually and mainly with French lately and have recently added a number of resources that others suggested in another thread I made regarding children's books. We've finished one, and reading some chapters of others (my daughter and I), and have more books on the way for both kids and myself. I much prefer the paperbacks than digital crap.

Norwegian
In other news Norwegian resources are building. nordmenn og Norge arrived yesterday in the mail. That's the level one and two textbooks and workbooks. The course looks incredibly dense, perhaps the most dense course I own. Maybe Mauger's Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Françaises would beat it, perhaps by a fair margin, I dunno. The first textook of nordmenn og Norge is around 500 pages or so. Huge, for a language course and that's only one of the four major books belong to the 2 level course, but arguably the most dense. Perhaps it's not as dense as it seems, meaning the learning curve is possibly quite a steady, gradual one potentially, but again unsure- I don't have the time to analyse the whole course. I also bought and downloaded the audio files for Mystery of Nils to accompany my books. I know you can just stream them for free when required, but I'd prefer to own them, which I now do.

I am so keen to get really stuck into Norwegian, but I am going to resist for now and focus on French with what little time I have lately. Then there's Dutch as well, requiring my attention at some point. Which language will trump which? 12 months of hard work in Dutch should be a good exercise in expantionism of Dutch territory in the geographical locations contained within my skull... but will I ever be finished with French when I cannot ever seem to have enough time for the French task at hand - that is advancing my high-intermediate / low-advanced French to upper echelons of French haughty personalities of high society.

Dutch
Like Norwegian, no formal study. However another resource arrived today as well (I've got no idea where they're coming from! ). It's the Dutch based version of Assimil's French with Ease. I already had the Assimil Using French Dutch version arrive several weeks ago now. I think they'll be great fun resources to play around with some day as I lightly go over old ground in French while giving my Dutch a workout. Having decent resources like these to compare two of my favourite languages side by side is a language nerd's dream, right? And since their Assimil courses, then that's my dream, right?

I continue to speak and read stories in Dutch with the children every second day (French the days in between). Their (and my) spoken Dutch is not outstanding in terms of broadness of vocabulary or complexity of grammatical structures, but it's quite functional, nontheless and ever so gradually improving in fluidity and comprehension for all parties involved. I think the main stressful period has passed there, we're over the hump. There's much less resistance from my daughter nowadays, but I think it will do her good in future when she potentially opts to exchange Dutch for Norwegian if I am ever in a position to teach Norwegian to her (meaning having learned a sufficient amount and have the pronunciation under control). I doubt she'll ever fall in love with the Dutch language as I did and for the moment it still seems like she'd be more than happy to just to drop it tomorrow. And I'm a realist on that one. It's okay, because Dutch is not a huge language and I need to respect her decisions. For now, we'll proceed with her brain developing an understanding the workings of a language from the Germanic family (in addition to English, granted) and thus I anticipate that Norwegian won't be as much as a struggle as it could have been without a background in Dutch, rudimentary or otherwise.

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On the future of the planet and my families plans... Again I'm very uncertain as to where this whole 'situation' is headed. We could be rendered island bound on the large dry flat continent that is Australia (okay, there are actually some relatively decent sized mountains) or we might find that's not the case at all, but we'll be adapting to a new set of parameters to fit our objectives into a 'new world... should I say order?'. Somewhere in my warped mind, I might be caught imagining (I just want to clarify that I'm not quite wishing for it) a dystopian future in which I need to know a foreign language or two and quick smart (fingers crossed they're European) for the survival of my family and our future existence. If that ever became the case, and I liked the language, I think you'd find I'd reach C2 in record time

[PeterMollenburg]

July's over...

I didn't do that much in the way of study time at my desk which is my real driver of progress often for myself. Nevertheless my French has not slid backwards hardly at all except for some advanced vocab I haven't reviewed lately perhaps. My Dutch is hovering at a much lower level. Norwegian is doing nothing. With all the Covid stuff going on I wasn't sure what to focus on and why.

So... again I need to reset. From tomorrow it's back to my French advancement. My plans for the long term go like this:
French C2
Potentially a Master's in Interpreting or in Interpreting and Translation
Dutch B2
Norwegian B2
Spanish B2
Russian? German? Italian? Portuguese? Take NL, ES, NO to C1 or C2?.. I dunno

I'm so keen on Norwegian lately but I must finish the job, I must focus on the now and get on with it. French C2 must be attained before I move on. I will continue with Dutch stories and speech every second day with the kids, as exposure to another language is good for them until I can return to focus on Dutch and introduce more complex vocabularly. The children will speak back to me in Dutch on my Dutch days with encouragement albeit simple sentences, but they are much more comfortable with the language now.

In July I did 34 hrs 20min of French, 3 hours 8 min of Dutch and 2 hrs 22min of Norwegian.

[PeterMollenburg]

I have once again swung back towards doing a combination of languages. There are justifiable reasons for this for which I don't really want to go into except to say that there's a lot of uncertainty in the world in general (yes stating the obvious there), my world and my world of languages.

I cannot work out what is best what to do - French only, a ton of Dutch, a pile of Norwegian. All languages have apparent benefits done on their own intensively or done simultaneously together at a reduced intensity (due to sharing the space with the other languages). I guess what I'm saying is that I do not know which language(s) is/are going to prove to be the most essential in the near future for myself and my family and it's also quite plausible that I could remain in an English speaking environment for the rest of my life.

Still my love of languages continues and so to cover all bases I've decided on spreading myself thinner over all the three languages. It's a method that has proven not so great prior to my days of French intensive study and considerable advancement due to consistent applied effort. My days of French intensive study are reflected upon with some pride and envy from my current position. I did a solid job and I knew what I wanted. Still, the 'spreading myself thin method' or 'keeping my options open method' I still believe is justified for various reasons, and in all honestly, language lust although is entertained enormously in this decision, didn't factor in much when arriving at a pragmatic decision.

Is that not the best of both worlds for us language lusters, to have to choose to learn more languages at once because it is apparently the most sound choice? I'm sure my subconscious mind is playing tricks here on my conscious mind and has now completely snared my ego in the sneaky trap after presenting a convincing case to proceed with all three languages.

At some stage should one of the three languages become clearly the language that I must focus on due to changing circumstances or arising significant events, I'll then drop the other two, or scale them back considerably.

Here is my planned routine for my desk study of 2 hours/day:

Every day:
One hour of Norwegian
Current Resources:
Learn Norwegian by Sverre Klouman
The Mystery of Nils

Every second day:
One hour of French
Curent Resources:
Bien-dire (intensive reading/vocabulary acquisition),
Extensive reading,
Watching

Every other second day:
One hour of Dutch
Current Resources:
Hugo Dutch in 3 Months (70th review),
The two equivalent Assimil courses: Le Nouveau Néerlandais Sans Peine together with Dutch with Ease

Other activities:
The days I study French I speak and read Dutch stories to my kids.
The days I study Dutch I speak and read French stories to my kids.
Entertainment likely to take place predominantly in French, but may also be in the other languages.
On commutes and time passing (eg breaks at work, waiting in queues etc) a mixture of languages.

Loose (idealistic) Objectives:
French: keep gradually advancing, one day perhaps pass C1 and or C2
Dutch: reach B2
Norwegian: reach B2
Better sleep, nutrition, exercise and mental status to increase efficiency and productivity in language learning activities (and also allow for better outcomes in other areas of life requiring an increased demand on my time and energy lately).
Some day look to increase back to 3 hours/day desk study, which is not currently possible due to our family arrangements, potential relocation from our current residence and other potential large undertakings on the horizon.

I've been gradually building my collection of resources, in particular hard copies of already obtained digital versions or hard copies of new(ly purchased) material. I'm doing this for a number of reasons including the fact that I just prefer hard copies to digital versions, but am aware that digital versions are also very good under certain circumstances. Today I ordered a hefty French-Norwegian dictionary. Given my location and the location of the vendor, it cost me an arm and a leg so I hope it's as decent as it seems to be. I also obtained the audio for Linguaphone Norsk and I ordered the French paperback version of the older Assimil Néerlandais Sans Peine containing 132 lessons.

Finally, you know what, I will just simply have some fun with all this! I know I'll get frustrated with slower progress, but I'm going to try to remind myself to enjoy the process and gradual progress that I will get from the time and effort I will put in. I sincerely hope everyone out there is happy and doing their best in their lives! Life's too short, don't forget to stop to smell the roses!

[PeterMollenburg]

Previous 3 months update.

juillet/ juli (previously reported)

French: 34 hours 20 minutes
Dutch: 3 hours 38 minutes
Norwegian: 2 hours 22 minutes

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août/ augustus

French: 35 hours 39 minutes
Dutch: 15 hours 32 minutes
Norwegian: 12 hours 48 minutes

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septembre/ september

French: 24 hours
Dutch: 22 hours 35 minutes
Norwegian: 21 hours 49 minutes

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Summary

Not incredible numbers, but I'm still in the game 9 out of 10 days and that's what counts. I've chopped and changed my plans as I do. Norwegian is rising yet again in prominence, as is Dutch at the same time. Basically in September it was all pretty even but not huge numbers as there's a lot going on at the moment. Trying to sell a house while working, attending to 3 kids and learning three languages is quite a bit to do. Not impossible, just means I'm very busy. And add to that trying to figure out where we'll live and what our plans will be is not easy. We thought we'd see if we could manage to sell first before making our next move. It appears we have sold, but our next move is unclear. We were planning to go to Europe as most of you would know and as the title of this thread suggests, but we've had to re-evaluate, and that's life. We hope to come back to this plan, but for now, well, I've realised pandemic or not I cannot stop my love of language learning....

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Current Resources

French
Bien-dire magazines... love them!
Using this for vocabulary acquisition/ intensive reading.

1984 by George Orwell
More extensive-like reading. Very much enjoying this, but chipping away slowly with what little time I have.

Reading stories and speaking with the kids every second day.

Watching some TV here and there, podcasts here and there.
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Dutch
Hugo's Dutch in 3 Months
Used extensively in the past. Using it as review, reigniting previously learned material. Up to week 11 of 12.

Assimil's Le nouveau néerlandais sans peine / Dutch with Ease
Really enjoying (re-)learning (not advanced) Dutch from a French base. I often translate line by line Dutch to French and French to Dutch. Lot's of (language nerdy) fun! I'm currently on lesson 20, but a few months back was on lesson 32-ish, thus slowly clawing back to where I was. No great rush. I have several more different French based Dutch courses by Assimil to look forward to:

Le Néerlandais sans peine (1979)
Currently using: Dutch with Ease/ Le nouveau néerlandais sans peine (1981)
Le Néerlandais (2011)
La pratique du néerlandais (1978)
Le néerlandais des affaires (1981)

as well as Méthode 90 - Le néerlandais d'aujourd'hui en 90 leçons et 90 jours. Plenty of language nerd fun to look forward to!

Reading stories and speaking with the kids every second day.

A little bit of Michel Thomas now and again... a tiny bit of TV also (mainly news)
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Norwegian
Learn Norwegian by Sverre Klouman. Slow going. On lesson 4, but really enjoy the IPA/pronunciation training.

The Mystery of Nils a good playful compliment to the above book. Up to lesson 6.

Have watched a series recently on Netflix called Hjem til Jul , which is easy watching with the original Norwegian audio on but reading the subtitles in French. It's really more French practice than anything, but good to get used to more of the sounds of Norwegian.

A couple months back I watched all of the four (shortish) seasons of Unge Lovende. The first two seasons with French audio dub then the latter two (I think four seasons, might have been five?) with French subs, No audio. Was interesting enough, a bit of fun.

Yeah, all round slow going with Norwegian, but some progress is better than nothing.
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Collecting more resources

So I've been gathering a nice collection of Norwegian paper-based resources in particular, since I do prefer the real thing over their convenient digital counterparts.

I've now got a paper copy of Einar Haugen's highly regarded NO-EN (not EN-NO) dictionary, with tone markings! Woohoo! The print is certainly on the small side, but it's a very useful text nonetheless.

My new French Fransk Bla Ordbok (NO-FR-NO) was a tad disappointing on the other hand given there isn't any pronunciation guidance in terms of IPA or some kind of imitated pronunciation, nor accent marking. It exists in the French side. Thus it's predominantly a dictionary for Norwegians learning French. Perhaps it will come in handy when I'm more comfortable with the language and use it to search for Norwegian words from a French base with my kids (I use a FR-NL dictionary with searching for NL terms using FR as the base language). At least it's a nice hardcover.

Today a received a second hand copy of Norwegian Practical Dictionary (NO-EN-NO) by Laura Žiūkaitė-Hansen who is the author of Beginner's Norwegian as well (both by Hippocrene). I was fortunate to get it at a reasonably low price as it's one of those books seemingly out of print in which people know it's sought after and are trying to sell it for astronomically expensive prices second hand (I'm talking $1000 USD and considerably beyond). The copy is in decent condition and looks very promising. The pronunciation and tone markings look detailed and my language nerd brain is excited by that!

I've also bought Norwegian: A Comprehensive Grammar (Routledge Comprehensive Grammars) by Philip Holmes and Hans-Olav Enge. It's the more comprehensive (and receives much better reviews) as the name suggests of the two grammar books that are most common on the market nowadays for English speakers and appears more than enough to cover my needs. Now to cover all these books so I don't ruin their thin covers with very frequent use. Funny, I have a decent Dutch grammar reference book and now Norwegian, but I've never owned one for French.... weird... I gues I have that many courses, the info is all there... but one single book might be nice. Greedy greedy me, language learner prepper... comme je suis un peu fou, hein ?

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Short-term language learning plans...

Stick to speaking (and reading stories, some TV occasionally) one day in French with the kids, next day Dutch (alternating). The days I speak whichever language, I also seek TV or listening or reading in that language for myself in spare moments and I study the other for an hour at my desk after having done Norwegian first (every day).

Example:
Day 1
Wake, study one hour Norwegian (resources for desk study mentioned above)
Study one hour of Dutch because today is a 'French day'
'Today is a 'French' day', thus I speak to the kids only in French and read them stories for 30 to 90 minutes as their interest allows for.
Listen to French news podcast for a little while while in shower.
I go to work, commute 25 min to work, 25 min home. Might make phone call in one direction, listen to French in other direction.
If working locally above won't happen. Might read something in French on a break.
If home early evening might watch an hour of French TV.

Day 2
Wake, study one hour Norwegian.
Study one hour of French because today is a 'Dutch day'
'Today is a 'Dutch' day', thus I speak to the kids only in Dutch and read them stories for 30 to 90 minutes as their interest allows for.
Listen to Dutch Michel Thomas (and repeat) for a little while while in shower.
I go to work, commute 25 min to work, 25 min home. Might make phone call in one direction, listen to Dutch in other direction.
If working locally above won't happen. Might read something in Dutch on a break.
If home early evening might watch an hour of Dutch TV.

*As I track my study hours, I wear a cheap digital watch and any time I start listening to sth, reading stories etc I will start my stopwatch and stop it when done, then log the time in my phone notes. I don't feel comfortable wearing a smart watch - not my thing.

I hope to up the amount of Norwegian desk study, but will sensibly approach this as seems feasible and not too selfish given family life. I'd like to progress a little quicker than currently, but if not, no drama.

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Edited several times as post written in 'stages' due to my paranoia regarding my computer potentially crashing. Paranoia? It has literally crashed probably 15 times in 2 days. I hope all is well with everyone!! Learn for yourself, think for yourself!