Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza (ES, EUS, FIN and many more))! 2020s log

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LaMancha
Posts: 7
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Chinese (fluent upper-intermediate)
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby LaMancha » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:07 pm

Hello Tarvos!

I'm LaMancha, from Spain. A totally newbie, just realized from the existence of HLAL and this one.

As I have been pretty active in refreshing first page and reading some other forums, I've seen that you started learning russian from scratch in 2012.

I am not a crazy polyglot as you, so I'm not expecting to be flawless without suffering some hardships. Anyway I really wanted to ask you some things that come to my mind and that's because I've been considering studying it a little bit.

Te pongo un poco en contexto para que sepas de que palo soy:
- No soy un gran políglota, de hecho, solo manejo bien tres idiomas: mi español, inglés pobre gramaticalmente y chino, que cada vez va mejor.
- Actualmente solo estudio chinete, y lo he estudiado por temas comerciales, para aumentar oportunidades laborales en el futuro. Sé que los idiomas son llaves para abrirse a millones de personas, por ende mercados, por lo que he pensado en dos opciones: (1) seguir con la rama de los idiomas asiáticos (seguir estudiando coreano (tengo un nivel básico) que será más fácil debido a saber chino) o (2) empezar con el ruso y abrir una nueva rama, la de los eslavos.

Mi principal interés es alcanzar un nivel profesional que me permite mantener conversaciones complejas... sin importar si es B1, B2, C1... lo importante es aprender bien.

I'm sorry to be such not pertinent and "taking" your knowledge as "free" counseling... it's not my intention to waste you time. No encontré mucha "chicha" del ruso por este foro, hasta ahora lo que más veo es tu log de ruso de HLAL.

Said that, any advise to a complete ignorant of Russian would be highly appreciated.
Greetings from LaMancha.
2 x

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tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby tarvos » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:57 am

Te contesto en español, vale?

La clave para aprender un idioma, y lo digo siempre, es la pasión. Saber que necesitas un idioma para futuras oportunidades no basta, porque esas oportunidades tienen que ser muy concretas. El mundo cuenta con casi 8 mil millones de personas, y sencillamente no te va a tocar encontrarte con todas aquellas. Entonces, si tu ámbito profesional se alinea con un cierto idioma (presencia de chinos o rusos en el mercado, o sea en la cadena de suministros, o como clientela, o lo que sea), valdrá la pena saber ese idioma para acceder a dicho mercado. Eso, sin embargo, requiere que sepas exactamente cuál será tu ventaja y como lo deberás manejar.

La otra alternativa, no obstante, es tener una afición por un cierto idioma (como la tengo yo por el ruso o el castellano), y luego usar este idioma para que se abran puertas. Eso significa que tomas decisiones profesionales basándote en tus aficiones y habilidades personales, por ejemplo, eso es lo que estoy haciendo yo: estudio interpretación, y me centro en el castellano justamente por que ese es el idioma que me encanta. Las puertas se abren justamente porque tú te has esforzado en que se abran.

Cabe mencionar también que saber un idioma, como has dicho tú, es importante, no obstante, en cuanto al uso profesional, las exigencias son un poco más estringentes. No sé en que ámbito trabajas, sin embargo, tienes que darte cuenta que, por ejemplo en el turismo, se exige menos que en un ámbito de negocios internacionales. Y dado que el inglés está por todos lados, siempre vale la pena mejorar el inglés antes de dedicarte a otra cosa profesionalmente, porque el inglés es el idioma que abre más puertas.

Por eso no puedo decirte "vete a estudiar el ruso", porque desconozco los detalles cruciales de tu vida, y mucho menos soy una asesora profesional en cuanto al empleo. Lo importante es que te hagas una idea de lo que quieres hacer con tu vida profesional, y que le asignes a tu carrera objetivos alcanzables. Eso solo lo podrás hacer tu, yo no pinto nada allí.

Si quieres un ejemplo - la mayoría de mis estudiantes de aprendizaje de idiomas, sea el inglés o el holandés (esos son los idiomas que enseño) son rusos, y justamente lo son porque yo tengo una afición por el ruso y lo manejo bien (sin embargo, sigo haciendo errores, y claro que vas a encontrar errores también en esta respuesta). Con eso he podido alcanzar un nivel bien alto en ruso. Hago lo mismo con el castellano ahora, sobre todo porque en interpretación el dominio del idioma tiene que ser casi impeccable. Y no pretendo decir que mi español es impeccable ;)

Trata de concretizar tus tareas y ambiciones, y asignar objetivos concomitantes a ellos.
Last edited by tarvos on Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
7 x
“And when he shall die
Take him and cut him out in little stars
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world
Will be in love with the night
And pay no worship to the garish sun

Preferred pronouns: feminine.

LaMancha
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:49 am
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French (rusty intermediate)
Chinese (fluent upper-intermediate)
Korean (on-the-rusty-way basic)
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby LaMancha » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Gracias por la respuesta tan elaborada!

Desde luego pensaré lo que me has dicho, ya que puede ser que no haya pensado tal vez algunos puntos. También es cierto que no te dije ni siquiera mi ámbito! :roll: Yo aún soy estudiante, un MBA de internacionalización del gobierno español, por lo que es posible que me centre en el comercio internacional. Para realizar estas actividades de forma satisfactoria me parece clave el idioma. Creo que el inglés está bien para comunicarse un poco, pero si quieres entablar una relación (llegar al corazón de alguien), creo que lo principal es hablar su idioma y tener un respeto por la cultura. Eso es diferencial.

I'll keep on considering it, I still have some time until I finish this tedious degree: pretty interesting and useful knowledge, but I'm not a good student.. Ahora mismo estoy fantaseando todo el tiempo para estudiar idioma que tendré en verano :lol:

The feelings you got with spanish and russian, I feel it with the chinese. I'm also giving spanish classes to chinese kid through a online education platform. It's crazy how one can progress when explaining in that language :D

Mil gracias por tu respuesta!! Desde luego que tu español no será impeccable, pero vamos, de p*tísima madre sí que está..
Un saludo,
LaMancha.
2 x

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tarvos
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby tarvos » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:05 am

Desde luego que el idioma es clave. Tan solo te digo que el inglés también abre muchas puertas porque se usa en un contexto globalizado cuando se trata de reuniones internacionales. Lo digo por experiencia ;)

Aside from this, not much is happening because my depression is hitting me like a truck and my intention is to stay in bed forever until this shit passes. I'm even skipping class because of this. Don't know if it's the quarantine, the separation from my partner, or just my body in general going "nope", but it sure ain't fun!

I did, in all of my craziness, download a Bashkir textbook (in Russian of course). Not sure when I'll find any use for it, but since my therapist said that I should put 1) health first, 2) nothing, 3) nothing, 4) stuff I like, 5) studies, in that order, perhaps I'll find some use for it.
5 x
“And when he shall die
Take him and cut him out in little stars
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world
Will be in love with the night
And pay no worship to the garish sun

Preferred pronouns: feminine.

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tarvos
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby tarvos » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:43 am

I have now gotten to the point where I am frustrated enough with interpreting to think I'm worthless, and have that actually influence what I do - and start mumbling and get insecure when it happens - ironically when I'm doing things right. So my teacher has taken to yelling at me when that happens. She just says "acuérdate, la puta ama" (if any of you have seen La casa de papel, you'll understand that reference). She also said that she's impressed at my work taking into consideration the ridiculous situation I'm in (my private situation as you probably all already know, is nothing short of horrible due to illness and depression and whatnot) and she said that she doesn't even want to know how good I would be if my health issues cleared up. She even joked she'd gift me a t-shirt with la puta ama (and Nairobi from La Casa de Papel) on it.

My only response to that is "well, but they won't. So this is what we've got to work with." Well the depression might clear up again, who knows, that would improve things a whole lot I suppose. She also thinks I'm way too perfectionistic (and this is coming from someone who really really nitpicks on every mistake you make).

On the side, I've also had to use Russian for work (a common occurrence) and French for work (a less common occurrence). I'm so used to speaking Russian even though I still feel a bit deficient in that language that Russian is a fairly ok go-to language (and in the long term, I have plans to learn to interpret it, after I finish Spanish and English - a professional interpreter has told me I should be able to go for it).

My French, on the other hand, is extremely rusty. I'm extremely capable when it comes to understanding it - I read it well, and I understand oral French quite decently I'd say - I'm just not as capable a speaker. I really would have to get back into that language, and the problem is I don't have that many ties to the francophone world anymore, especially after the rupture with my first ex years ago. (That said, when I speak it I'm still probably a damn sight better than most people who studied it at school - I don't think my French is actually bad by any stretch of the word, just rusty and slow).

There isn't much else. This cabrona is just trying to mantenerse a flote.
6 x
“And when he shall die
Take him and cut him out in little stars
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world
Will be in love with the night
And pay no worship to the garish sun

Preferred pronouns: feminine.

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eido
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby eido » Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:02 am

@tarvos
I've always thought you were a fighter. Being depressed (having depression), going through transgender issues in a country that doesn't support you in either of those things... You are an inspiration to all.

You can make it through that interpreting program. I know it. You're perfect for that in every way.

I'm here for you, whenever, wherever ;) You a saucy girl.
0 x

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tarvos
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby tarvos » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:10 am

I actually think the trans thing in Netherlands is ok. Could be worse though my fight was with the gatekeepy medical system. It was harder when I was on my own in Spain.

That's to say it's as good as it's ever going to get for trans girls. I have a supportive family and I have supportive friends and a good partner. I'm not at risk of being exploited sexually or losing the roof over my head because I pay rent to my parents. My family is extremely defensive of me.

It can sometimes get problematic outside of that. Finding work with my illnesses is difficult and I mostly work independently but because of my health it means my income is rather low. I have had the occasional bullshit outside of my private life and in public places and there has been some crap with a classmate. Fortunately my teacher and another classmate chewed him the hell out. I'm pretty sure he got the hint after that.

I do take more precautions when abroad, especially when I travel east. I have been to eastern Europe and central Europe in the past years and I have been fairly ok because my passport details are congruent. They were not in 2017 and this was annoying.

So in terms of trans I am probably fairly lucky. It's still shit, I have found dating difficult even though I have had a few partners over the years. But all in all little overt discrimination. I do think people look at me twice and might not like me as much but if they say it they know they will get in trouble with me, both personally and legally - and at my chess club I am part of the board even. So if anything happens there it's the others who have a problem and they know it - I am already a valued member of the community and part of the club organisation.

In terms of the course yeah I am made for it. Part of it is because I am good at what I do and part of it again is because I have support from the important people. And also because my teacher herself is gay and she takes shit from no one. Which means that I am safe in the classroom environment because the teachers will scold and have chewed out anyone who touches me.

Being trans and not straight is not a walk in the park but it's relatively easy. As I am dating a Finnish girl it's pretty much the same over there. It's probably the best time for us now compared to any time in the past. Except maybe if you are from the States when it was better under Obama.

I will finish the course most likely. But it's not been easy and I am not there yet.
9 x
“And when he shall die
Take him and cut him out in little stars
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world
Will be in love with the night
And pay no worship to the garish sun

Preferred pronouns: feminine.

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Gustav Aschenbach
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby Gustav Aschenbach » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:00 pm

tarvos wrote:I have now gotten to the point where I am frustrated enough with interpreting to think I'm worthless, and have that actually influence what I do - and start mumbling and get insecure when it happens - ironically when I'm doing things right. .


Don't make yourself crazy, you're still studying. What would be the point of studying if you were already perfect? ;) Things take time...
3 x

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tarvos
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby tarvos » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:16 am

Still working on studying, not doing much. I was looking up hypocoristics in Greek. One for the name Fotini (Φωτεινή) and one for my own name Ιωάννα. Actually I remember choosing my name(s) and making sure it would be useful in various languages - Greek is one of them. I do actually have a second name as well - Martine - but that one isn't as readily Greek. Perhaps if you translated it as Μαρτίνα, but since that name is Latin-derived, not Greek, it's still not a very common name over there.

A peculiarity of the Orthodox countries is that they like celebrating name days - these are religiously based, so I wonder what the Greek atheists do - and I also found out my name day is January 7. I should start celebrating that, I'll get twice the presents! I haven't seen the Russians get into name days hugely, it seems more of a Balkan thing - it is also popular in Romania, for example. Dutch people wouldn't even know what a name day is, though. And they don't really give Christian names that much anymore, either - that tradition is dying out, though occasionally still relevant. (I did give myself names that make sense with the Catholic tradition, but that's more due to being a traditionalist when it comes to names than any attachment to religion; I don't really like modern made-up names, I like good old-fashioned names).

That's about it for my early morning ramblings. I'm also reading a book called "Les Amnésiques" about the Germans after WWII and the virulent strain of antisemitism that resurfaced - and how they felt they suffered as much from Hitler as the Jews did. Not all Nazis remained in jail forever...
2 x
“And when he shall die
Take him and cut him out in little stars
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world
Will be in love with the night
And pay no worship to the garish sun

Preferred pronouns: feminine.

DaveAgain
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Re: Tea with Tarvos - Linguavaganza! 2020s log

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:15 am

tarvos wrote:
A peculiarity of the Orthodox countries is that they like celebrating name days - these are religiously based, so I wonder what the Greek atheists do - and I also found out my name day is January 7. I should start celebrating that, I'll get twice the presents! I haven't seen the Russians get into name days hugely, it seems more of a Balkan thing - it is also popular in Romania, for example. Dutch people wouldn't even know what a name day is, though. And they don't really give Christian names that much anymore, either - that tradition is dying out, though occasionally still relevant. (I did give myself names that make sense with the Catholic tradition, but that's more due to being a traditionalist when it comes to names than any attachment to religion; I don't really like modern made-up names, I like good old-fashioned names).
That might explain a feature of my Harenberg sprachkalender that had confused me.

In the bottom left corner of each day's page there is: the star sign (Taurus, Gemini etc), dawn/dusk times, phase of the moon, and some Christian names e.g. 29 April = Dietrich, Katja, Katrin, Roswitha.

I had no idea what the names were for.
0 x


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