Guyome's log

[guyome]

I don't doubt that you and I are the only people on the forum to have read Salvado por su ija.

Haha, probably. Although I like the idea that there may be silent readers of Ladino here

As an aside, are you able to read German and Spanish at a high level because of your Yiddish and Ladino?

To a high level? I'd have to say no.

In the case of German, it's not easy to answer because I knew some Geman before studying Yiddish and for years after I needed to be able to read a very specific type of German 'literature'. Because of that I maintained some passive ability in German but certainly not enough to read any kind of text effortlessly. Yiddish helped in no small way by giving me more vocabulary (although more cognates than one-on-one correspondance) but the better I knew Yiddish, the stranger German seemed to me.

As far as Spanish is concerned, it is both easier and harder to answer. Easier because I have never studied it in any way; harder because I probably could read it to some extent even before knowing any Ladino thanks to French and Latin. As some kind of test, here are extracts from the Spanish Wikipedia about the Sibe:

Originariamente, los xibe habitaron en las orilas del río Nonni. Se sabe que fue uno de los nueve reinos derrotados por el emperador Nurhaci de los jurchen en la batalla de Gure en el año 1593. Más tarde quedaron bajo dominio de los mongoles incluso después de que llegara la dinastía manchú de los Qing.
El primer contacto de los xibe con los Qing se produjo cuando se iniciaron diversas campañas militares contra Rusia. Los xibe proporcionaron apoyo logístico a los Qing. En 1692 los mongoles ofrecieron el control sobre los xibe y los daur al emperador Kangxi a cambio de un pago en plata.
El traje tracional de los xibe es muy parecido al de los manchúes. Hoy en día casi todos los xibe utilizan vestidos occidentales y el traje típico ha quedado reservado a algunos ancianos que los utilizan en festividades señaladas.
Antiguamente, los xibe se dividían en hala, un clan al que pertenecían las personas que llevaban el mismo apellido. Estos clanes se agrupaban en los diferentes poblados que suelen consistir en unas 200 casas.
Hasta hace pocos años, en las viviendas xibe habitaban hasta tres generaciones diferentes de una misma familia, ya que se creía que mientras el padre vivía ningún hijo podía romper el clan familiar y dejar la casa.

I think I would have been able to read a large part of it without trouble even before studying Ladino since most of the words can be understood through their French cognates. In bold are the words I would 'notice' somehow, as of today, but for different reasons:

1) Words I probably wouldn't have understood before studying Ladino (although context might have been enough to intuit some of them): quedaron, bajo, llegara, parecido, llevaban, mientras, dejar

2) Words where Ladino doesn't help but French/Latin do (and context of course!): orilas (Lat. ora 'shore'), reinos (Fr./Lat. régner/règne/regnum/etc.), derrotados (Fr. déroute), apellido (Fr. appeler/appellation), suelen (Lat. soleo 'to use to')

3) Words I understand only through context: proporcionaron (Fr. proportionner, but the meaning is quite different), traje, poblados (Fr. peuple/population helps but without context I wouldn't have guessed it means some kind of village/settlement), viviendas

4) Various things I notice as a reader of Ladino: iniciaron (may exist in Ladino but I guess empesar would be used instead), Hoy en día, utilizan (probably exists in Ladino but I feel uzar is more common), llevar apellido (in Ladino you can yevar a hat or something like that but I don't know if one can yevar a name).

All in all, I'd say that Ladino definitely helps me understanding this text more easily, thanks to the words in section 1 and precise knowledge of conjugations for instance, but it still feels 'different' and I guess reading a whole book like that, especially literature, wouldn't be easy.

[Saim]

iniciaron (may exist in Ladino but I guess empesar would be used instead), utilizan (probably exists in Ladino but I feel uzar is more common)

That's true of Spanish as well, at least in informal registers: empezar and usar are more common than iniciar and utilizar.

[guyome]

Manchu
I finished reading the first tale in Sibe uksurai irgen siden jube. Talking bird easily gets the peaches he is looking for and goes on to save old lady's life but is captured soon after by a greedy official. Narrowly manages to escape death and takes revenge upon the evil official.
Apart from the usual couple of Sibe words that cannot be found in Manchu dictionaries, it read rather well. On to the next tale!

Ladino
- Listened to Eliezer Papo's seventh lecture on the Meam Loez
- more Rashi reading with the Bibliotheca Sefarad pdfs: Entre dos Amores and Una dezgrasia en mar. The first one is about a man who thinks two sisters are in love with him but discovers in the end that in fact none of them is. Not great literature but it made me chuckle.

Latin
- Read more of Justin's Philippic Histories. It's ok but not really gripping so I might shift to something else soon
- read the Historia Fratris Dulcini Heresiarche (History of Brother Dulcinus the heresiarch), a short contemporary account of Fra Dolcino (1250-1307). His movement figures prominently in the background of Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose, which I'm rereading right now, and that's what made me interested in reading the Historia.

(...) Et cum in calendis maii proxime sequentis quamdam maximam prodiciam facere cogitassent, predicti Dulcinus et sui sequaces de monte finxerunt se recedere quasi cum omnibus, qui ibi aderant, et presentibus quibusdam carceratis dixit, quod non volebat stare amplius ibi, quia non habebat victualia et dimissis ibi paucis hominibus exivit fortalicium cum magna comitiva et reductis carceratis in carcere, ipse latenter intravit fortalicium cum suis sequacibus et per aliam portam intrantes se absconderunt, ne carcerati scire possent fraudem, quam cogitaverant et ordinaverant. Illi autem, qui remanserant presentibus carceratis suaserunt ipsis carceratis ut recederent, quia penitebat eos de malis, que fecerant et dixerunt ipsis carceratis: "Eatis ad capitaneos et exercitum domini episcopi Vercellensis, qui sunt Moxi, et dicatis eisdem, quod veniant huc cum tota sua gente, quia volumus sibi montem et castrum remittere et sequi fratrem Dulcinum et alios, qui hac nocte vobis videntibus recesserunt, quia victualia non habemus et non possumus amplius hic manere". Ipsi autem carcerati recesserunt cum licentia et venerunt Moxum et narraverunt capitaneis et hominibus exercitus domini episcopi predicta, que sibi dixerunt illi dolosi et que viderant. Illi tamquam nimis creduli iverunt illuc super montem causa capiendi eum et fortalicium et causa debellandi et expellendi illos canes pestiferos, sperando ipsos ut plurimum recessisse, prout narraverant carcerati. Et cum ibi tota nocte stetissent et gravis pluvia cum frigore et grandine advenisset, in fortalicium intrare dubitando, quia de proditione timebant, ceperunt descendere costam et regredi versus Moxum. Tunc illi canes maledicti exeundo de insidiis descenderunt de monte et irruerunt more demonum in predictos homines domini episcopi et multos ex eis occiderunt et alios ceperunt, quos redimere fecerunt excessive et sic de redemptionibus et spoliis, que ibi habuerunt, et lucrati fuerunt, multa victualia et alia necessaria habuerunt. (...)

Ipsi namque pestiferi Gazzari voluntate dei, precibus domini episcopi et fidelium christianorum devenerunt ad tantam miseriam, quod quamplures eorum carnes tam humanas quam canum et aliarum bestiarum comedebant et, quod est horribile ad dicendum, mortuo aliquo ipsorum Gazzarorum in bello et huiusmodi, alii accipiebant carnem eius et ponebant ad coquendum, et comedebant propter penuriam et magnam famem. Et in tanta captivitate fuerunt constricti per tres menses et ultra, obsessi super dicto monte, quod semimortui duraverunt existendo in magna necessitate. Et multi ex eis fame peribant, quorum corpora partim comedebant vivi et partim proiiciebant in locis desertis dicti montis Rebelli a feris et volucribus comedenda. (...)

predictos Dulcinum, Longinum et Margaritam de Tridento tradidit iudicio seculari, ita quod dicta Margarita primo fuit combusta super quadam columpna alta posita in arena Servi et plantata ibi et ordinata, ut ab omnibus videretur. Et illa combusta fuit presente ipso Dulcino vidente comburi eam. Postmodum Dulcinus et Longinus predicti, ligatis manibus et pedibus ipsorum super plaustris positi, in loco alto, ut ab omnibus videri possent, positisque in eorum conspectum vasibus igne plenis ordinatis ad calefaciendum tenabulas et comburendum carnes ipsorum, adhibitis carnificibus, qui cum tenabulis ferri candentis carnes eorum laniabant et frustatim in ignem ponebant, ductique fuerunt per plures vias, ut eorum pena longior et gravior esset; multi, quos leserant in personis et here, videntes tantam stragem talemque iustitiam fieri de eisdem, consolationem habuerunt et gaudium de vindicta penaque eorum, ut aliis transiret in exemplum: bonis ad letitiam, malis vero ad supplicium et totius secte praedicte pavorem detrimentum et opprobrium sempiternum. Predicte autem pene illate fuerunt predictis Dulcino et Longino in locis diversis, videlicet Dulcinus in civitate Vercellarum, ipsum ducendo cum cruciatibus et tormentis suprascriptis per vias et vicos ac plateas dicte civitatis, Longinus vero in loco Bugelle. Et tamen nullus ipsorum nec Margarita "la bella" numquam voluerunt converti prece, sive pretio nec alio quovis modo ad dominum Iesum Christum et ad veram fidem catholicam. Sed sic miserabiles in eorum pertinacia ac cordis duritia perierunt. (...)

[guyome]

Latin
This week, I'll try something new to get me to write more in Latin. I'll be using one of my favorite resource: Corderius' Colloquia.
Corderius (ca. 1479-1564) was born in France, became a priest, then a teacher and later converted to Protestantism, which led him to leave France as a consequence. He settled in Switzerland where he taught pupils for years.
He wrote a number of pedagogical works, the most important being his Colloquies. The goal was to offer young pupils models of correct Latin they could use in their everyday life (schools were Latin-speaking then). The dialogues were so popular that they remained in print until the early 20th c. They paint a vivid picture of 16th c. school life, even if the pupils Cordier depicts are probably more diligent than they would have been in real life.

My plan is to randomly pick one dialogue each day and write a few sentences about it. It means I may be paraphrasing it, reusing words and structures it introduced me to, writing on something it makes me think of, etc. Anything goes, as long as it makes me write in Latin everyday in a pleasant way. That last bit is important: the goal is not to produce literary masterpieces; I don't want to be bogged down consulting dictionaries and grammars in order to write better Latin. That would be a very valuable thing to do but right now I feel what I need most is to get into the habit of writing, using what I already know (and still trying to write as correctly as I can of course!).

Today's colloquium, a very short and simple one (II, 31 in the 1564 edition):

P- Unde affers istam tuniculam?
A- Domo.
P- Quid vis facere?
A- Volo induere.
P- Nunc non est mutandi tempus.
A- Quando igitur?
P- Cras mane, quum surges e lecto.
A- Bene mones; exspectabo.

P- Where do you bring this shirt from?
A- From home.
P- What do you want to do?
A- I want to wear it.
P- Now is not the time to change.
A- When then?
P- Tomorrow morning, when you'll get up.
A- You're right; I'll wait.

What I wrote:

Haec est confabulatio (vel colloquium) duorum discipulorum, quibus nomina 'Probus' et 'Amiculus'. Nescio an haec verba sint vera nomina. Mihi potius videntur cognomina ab auctore delecta, ut indoles discipulorum apertius patefiat.
Praecipuum est in Colloquiis a Corderio scriptis, ut lectoribus monstrentur regulae ad bene vivendum necessariae. Hic videmus unum e duobus discipulis, Amiculum (cog)nomine, tuniculam domo attulisse et statim mutare velle. Quod minime decet fieri nisi mane, cum discipulus surgit e lecto. Ob hanc causam ab altero discipulo, 'Probo' (cog)nomine, reprehenditur, qui eum docet necessarium esse usque ad mane exspectare.
Legentes fortasse putatis (et ego quoque!) Amiculum hanc admonitionem parvi facturum esse et tuniculam induturum esse, etiamsi id prohibetur. Corderius tamen, ut supra Anglice dixi, nobis ostendit quomodo discipuli se gerere debent, i. e. ostendit quomodo discipuli debent esse, non ut revera sunt.

This is a chat (or a conversation) between two pupils, whose names are 'Upright' and 'Little-Friend'. I don't know whether these are real names. It seems to me that they are rather nicknames chosen by the author in order to show more clearly the nature of the pupils.
The main thing in Cordier's dialogues is to show the readers how to behave well. Here we see that one of the pupils, Amiculus, has brought a shirt from home and wants to change immediately. This should not be done, unless in the morning, when a pupil gets up. Because of this, he is scolded by the other pupil, named 'Upright', who informs him he has to wait until morning.
You may think (and I too would!) that Little-Friend will disregard this warning and will wear the shirt, even if it is forbidden. But Cordier, as I said above in English, shows us how pupils should behave, that is he shows how pupils should be, not how they really are.

I'm not really satisfied with the last sentence. The quomodo and ut seem a bit...off. Nevermind, as I said, the goal is first and foremost to write, write, write.

[guyome]

Latin
Day 2 of my 'Corderius experiment'. Today I used dialogue II, 23 in the 1564 edition:

F- Quando rediturus est Blasius?
C- Non certe scio, fortasse die crastino. Sed cur istud rogas?
F- Quia secum abstulit catalogum et praeceptor irascetur si nemo sit qui recitet.
C- Relinque mihi istam curam: habeo catalogi exemplum.
F- Recitabis igitur?
C- Recitabo.
F- Bene facies et noster Blasius referet gratiam si qua se offeret occasio.

1709 translation
F- When will Blasius return?
C- I do not know certainly; perhaps tomorrow; but why do you ask that?
F- Because he hath taken the bill away with him, and the master will be angry if there be nobody that can call it.
C- Leave that care to me; I have a copy of the bill.
F- Will you call it then?
C- I will call it.
F- You shall do well, and our Blasius will do you as good a turn if ever there shall be occasion.

Quod scripsi:

In hoc colloquio, ut in priore confabulatione, duo tantum discipuli loquuntur, quorum nomina sunt Fontesius et Curtetius. Haec nomina mihi ignota sunt et eorum significationem invenire non possum. In priore colloquio, melius apparebat quam ob causam discipuli 'Probus' et 'Amiculus' nominarentur. Neque 'Fontesius' neque 'Curtetius' sunt haec ut tam facile explicari possint.

Supra scripsi 'duo tantum discipuli', quia in aliis colloquiis magister quoque adest et cum discipulis colloquitur. Saepe eos admonet, ut bene agant, et licentiam eis dat, ut in quendam locum eant.

Cum colloquium legerem, nesciebam quid esset 'catalogum'. Discipuli dicunt hoc aliquod esse, quod recitari solet, sed id mihi magno auxilio non fuit. Itaque opus fuit mihi, ut in ceteris colloquiis quaererem. In colloquium, quod est quinquagesimum quintum (LV) in libro secundo, rem inveni: catalogum est liber in quo nomina omnium discipulorum scripta sunt. Quidam schola ineunte catalogum recitat, id est nomina legit, et magister absentes notat.

Tunc melius intellexi cur inquietum esset cor Fontesii: Blasium catalogum abstulisse res erat revera magni momenti.

[guyome]

Latin
Day 3 of the 'Cordier experiment'. So far, my modus operandi has been the following: after having more or less randomly chosen a dialogue, I read it maybe twice and then try to say a few things about it, generally stopping after each 'topic' to type what I have said aloud. After that, I may polish a few things and add a sentence here and there. I'm not sure it's the most efficient thing to do but I find it not an unpleasant activity so far and I guess everything that gets me using Latin is a win. Today, I have done little else as far as languages are concerned.

Today I used dialogue I,51 in the edition published in 1564:

E- Qua de re sic elatus es laetitia?
D- Pater meus aduenit modo.
E- Quid mea refert?
D- Immo plurimum, quia nobis impetravit ludendi veniam.
E- Ain' tu?
D- Vide pueros iam ludentes in arena.
E- Ludant sane alii, ego studere malim quam ludere.
D- Nec minus ego, sed in tempore. Nam, ut est in proverbio 'Omnia tempus habent'. Unde et nos recte monet Cato noster
'Interpone tuis interdum gaudia curis,
Ut possis animo quemvis sufferre laborem.'
E- Vera sunt quae dicis, fateor. Sed interim omitte me, ut serio studeam.
D- Per me studeas licet, nihil impedio. At ego hac utar occasione.
E- Utere sane.

1709 English translation:
E- What are you so overjoyed for?
D- My father is newly come.
E- What matter is it to me?
D- Yes, a great deal ; because he hath got us leave to play.
E- Do you say so?
D- See, the boys are already playing in the Court-yard.
E- Let others play on God's name; I had rather ply my book than play.
D- And so had I, but when time serves. For (as the proverb goes) there is a time for every thing. Whereupon our Cato gives us good counsel.
'Mirth with thy labour some times put in ure,
That better thy labour thou may'st endure.'
E- The things are true which you say, I confess; but in the mean time let me alone, that I may ply my book in good earnest.
D- You may ply your book for all me, I do not hinder you; but I will take this opportunity.
E- Make use of it on God's name.

Scripta mea:

Hoc in colloquio duo discipuli, quorum nomina Elisaeus et Delphinus, loquuntur, ut jam vidimus prioribus diebus. Forsitan animadvertistis discipulos, de quibus Corderius scripsit, semper pueros esse. Nusquam enim (mea sententia) scripsit de puellis. Cujus rei causa facillima est intellectu: Corderii temporibus, scholae, in quibus Latine docebatur, tantum pueros (nisi fallor) accipiebant.

Unus e discipulis dicit 'omnia tempus habere'. Quae verba e Biblia Latina sumuntur, nempe e libro, cui titulus 'Ecclesiastes'. Ecclesiastes enim, quem quidam putant Salomonem regem filium Davidis regis fuisse, dixit (vel scripsit) omnia tempus habere. Quibus verbis addidit esse et tempus faciendi et tempus aliter faciendi: exempli gratia, 'tempus nascendi et tempus moriendi' vel etiam 'tempus flendi et tempus ridendi'.

Idem discipulus mentionem facit alterius auctoris, cui nomen 'Cato'. Hic Cato non est ille, qui semper dicebat 'Carthaginem delendam esse', nec alter, cui cognomen 'Uticensis'. Nam auctor a discipulo commemoratus est Dyonisius Cato, qui vixit saeculo tertio vel quarto post Christum natum et auctor fuit libri 'Distichorum', qui multos saeculos fuit liber clarissimus. Magnus enim fuit numerus discipulorum, qui Mediis Aevis temporeque Renascentiae didicerunt libro Distichorum. Eo modo non solum Latine sed etiam bene recteque vivere discebant.

Hic iterum videre possumus nonnullos discipulos a Corderio fictos studere malle quam ludere. Si magister essem, forsitan dicerem 'Utinam omnes discipuli ita facerent!'.

The Distichs of Cato were very commonly used as a Latin textbook, teaching both the language and morality. Cordier had published an edition of them for students so he obviously knew the text very well and thought it of great value.

Typing the English translation made me learn two words: 'to ply (a book)' and 'ure'. I also wonder to what extent the use of 'ply' has been triggered by the phonetical proximity between 'play' and 'ply'. Anyway, not sure I'm going to use these words very often

[guyome]

Latin
Day 4 of the 'Cordier experiment'. Dialogue I,38:

M- Abiitne pater tuus?
B- Abiit.
M- Quota?
B- Prima pomeridiana.
M- Quid dixit tibi?
B- Multis verbis monuit me ut diligenter studerem.
M- Utinam sic facias.
B- Faciam, Deo juvante.
M- Ecquid pecuniae dedit tibi?
B- Dedit, ut fere solet.
M- Quantum?
B- Nihil ad te.
M- Fateor, sed tamen quid facies ista pecunia?
B- Emam chartam et alia quae mihi sunt usui.
M- Quid si amiseris?
B- Aequo animo ferendum erit.
M- Quid si forte eguero? Dabisne mutuo?
B- Dabo, et quidem libenter.
M- Habeo tibi gratiam.

Hodie non habeo quid dicam de colloquio. Multae in eo sunt formulae ad urbanitatem pertinentes, pauca autem alia.

Saepe in his colloquiis mentio fit de discipulorum parentibus. Quo intellegi potest discipulos in schola vitam agere, parentes tamen in eadem urbe habitare. Non raro fit ut discipulus domum it, ut parentes visitet.

De pecunia hic tractatur, quae est res magni momenti et discipulis et aliis hominibus. Memini me legisse dialogos a quodam Barlando scriptos, in quibus discipuli non raro queruntur, dicentes se non satis pecuniae tenere. Sic semper studentibus.

Hodie valde fessus sum et plura scribere nolo. Spero me in crastinum diem et melius et longius scripturum esse.

[guyome]

Manchu
I have read two more tales in the first volume of Sibe uksurai irgen siden jube. One of them was more like a funny story about an official (probably during the late Qing dynasty) being repeatedly tricked by his son-in-law. The names, the places mentioned (Capcal), everything made it firmly located in time and space.
The other one, on the other hand, was a classical fairy tale, without precise localisation. Here are some extracts (and a quick-and-dirty translation):

Emu bade banjirede, emu dergi boo, emu wargi boo bihebi. Dergi boo i banjirengge mujakū bayan, wargi booi banjirengge jaci yadahūn bihebi. Dergi boode emu sarganjui bihebi, gulhun inenggi ufime šeolere be kicerakū. Booi baita be darkū, damu beyebe ulhūma i adali dastafi, niyalma i akū sitashūn be basume luolere amuran. Boo banjirengge bayan ofi, ini ama sarganjui be Bayanjy seme gebulehebi. Wargi booi sarganjui šuntuhuni uju be tukiyerakū, ini ama eme de aisilame weileme arame, imcime tobkime boo banjire de jaci kicebe bihebi, tuttu gašan i sakda urse terede Kicenjy sere gebu buhebi. (...)

In a place, there was a eastern house and a western house. The people of the eastern house were very rich, the people of the western house were very poor. In the eastern house, there was a girl. She spent the entire day without applying herself to sewing or embroidering. She didn't help with the household chores, she just took care of herself like a pheasant and enjoyed making fun of poor people(?). Because they were rich, her father called her Rich-one. The girl of the western house didn't raise her head until sunset, helping and serving her parents, (?)ing and (?)ing, she applied herself diligently to the life of the house. Therefore, the elders of the village called her "Diligent-one". (...)

[One day, a crow leads Diligent-one to an old woman.]

Sakda mama Kicenjy be boode dosime cai omifi jai gene sefi: "Si aisin duka be dosimbio? Menggun duka be dosimbio? Eici mooi duka be dosimbio?" seme fonjirede, sarganjui jabume: "Bi yadahūn ama eniye deri banjihangge, mooi duka be dosiki." sehe. Sakda mama sarganjui be dahabume boode dosifi, nahan de anahūnjame tebufi, fonjime: "Si aisin moro de cai omimbio? Menggun moro de cai omimbio? Eici yeheren moro de cai omimbio?" serede, sarganjui jabume: "Bi yadahūn ama eniye deri banjihangge yeheren moro de cai omiki." sehe. Sarganjui cai omime wajifi yabuki serede. Sakda mama gisureme: "Bi sinde emi bican be fudeki" sefi geli fonjime: "Si aisin bican be gaimbio? Menggun bican be gaimbio? Eici mooi bican be gaimbio?" serede, sarganjui ineku da an i jabume: "Bi yadahūn ama eniye deri banjihangge mooi bican be gaiki." sehe. (...)

The old woman said Diligent-one would enter the house, drink some tea and go. She asked: "Will you enter through the golden door? Will you enter through the silver door? Or will you enter through the wooden door?" The girl answered: "I am the child of poor parents, I will enter through the wooden door." The old woman made the girl follow her and entered the house. She made her sit humbly on the kang and asked her: "Will you drink tea in a golden cup? Will you drink tea in a silver cup? Or will you drink tea in a porcelain cup?" The girl answered: "I am the child of poor parents, I will drink tea in the porcelain cup." When the girl finished drinking tea and wanted to go, the old woman said: "I will give you a bican as a farewell gift" and then she asked: "Will you take the golden bican? Will you take the silver bican? Or will you take the wooden bican?" The girl answered as she always did: "I am the child of poor parents, I will take the wooden bican." (...)

[The old woman instructs Diligent-one not to open the bican until she's home and tells her that on the road back she will find three springs: in the first one, she should wash her eyes; in the second one, her hair; in the last one, her hands. Diligent-one follows the instructions carefully and each part of her body becomes more beautiful after having been washed. When she gets home, she opens the bican and finds a beautiful garment.
Jealous, Rich-one gets Diligent-one to tell her story and meets with another old woman. As could be expected, she acts very differently and choses the golden door, the golden cup, and the golden bican.]

Bayanjy aisin bican be bahafi beyede saliburkū urgunjeme, duka tucifi, juwan alakūn yabuhakū uthai bican be neime tuwaki sere, gūnin banjinafi, tere katunjame yabuhai dulin jugūn de isiname, yargiyan i aliyame muterkū, bican be jugūn duimbade sindafi, bicani angga be emgeri neihe bici, bican i angga ci nerginde emu yab yacin manggus mama tucime jifi, bayanjy be emu angga de uthai gulhun nunggehe bihebi.

Rich-one received the golden bican and couldn't be happier. She went out and had not walked ten alakūn that she wanted to open the bican. She made an effort and went on. Being halfway back, she truly could not resist anymore and put the bican in the middle of the road. As soon as she opened the bican, a black manggus came out of it and swallowed Rich-one in one go.

Ere jube be uju nirui Beki 1945ci aniya tuweri i dobori alaha, 1950ci aniya Mukdembu teksilehebi.
This tale was told by Beki of First-Company during a winter night of the year 1945, Mukdembu arranged it in 1950.

The words in bold I cannot find in Classical Manchu dictionaries. In some cases, context helps (bican: some kind of box; alakūn: a unit of length; imcime tobkime: two activities through which she can help her parents); in others, it is only a matter of a slight phonological change from Manchu (luolere < leolere; dastafi < dasatafi). In others, I don't know: niyalma i akū sitashūn looks like a weird construction; yab yacin 'pitch(?) black'? And don't ask me what a manggus is! I remember reading a couple of stories where this animal(?) appears but I have yet to find a translation for it.

I included the sentence about the origin of the tale because there are two interesting things in it: the name of the village, 'First-Company', is a good reminder that the Sibe were sent in the Ili region as soldiers, to guard the border. The villages they founded were simply named after the company who lived there. The other thing is the mention of the winter night, which was also the traditional season and time for storytelling in French regions I have read about (longer nights, less work in the fields, everyone gathered around the fire).

[cjareck]

The story has many clones in other languages. I think that such fairytales were invented to comfort poor people that wealth is not important. That is, is of course, true, but in today's société de consomation (I learned that phrase in French long time ago, but it is the first time I can use it, and I will not refuse myself that pleasure ) it may not be understood.

The other thing is the mention of the winter night, which was also the traditional season and time for storytelling in French regions I have read about (longer nights, less work in the fields, everyone gathered around the fire).

That is also international. We still use the phrase długie zimowe wieczory (long winter evenings) even if due to electricity, our activities don't differ much from other times of the year.

[guyome]

It's been a while since I updated this log. July wasn't the most productive month and I've failed in maintaining some decent level of activity in all my languages. This was mainly due to some lack of motivation but also to my spending most of my time on Manchu.

As far as Ladino is concerned, I still have to finish the Rashi booklets of the Bibliotheca Sefarad. I'm still listening to Eliezer Papo's weekly talks about the Meam Loez.

I have spent some time refreshing my Classical Mongolian by reworking through part of Grønbech & Krueger's An Introduction to Classical (Literary) Mongolian. Ideally, I'd like to bring Classical Mongolian to the same reading level as Manchu but it would take a lot of time and I'm not sure adding another audio-less/reading-only language to my schedule is a great idea.

I have also dabbled in Dutch. We'll see how far this carries me.

Finally, something mildly interesting I noticed recently. The books I bought from the Espaci Occitan came with bookmarks bearing their address. After the name of the city (Gap) comes 'Occitània' which can be surprising at first since Gap is located in the PACA region and not in the newly created administrative region called Occitanie. 'Occitània' here doesn't refer to any administrative reality but to the cultural region as defined by Occitanists ('from the Alps to the Pyrénées').
Mentioning the region's name is not needed when writing your address, so using 'Occitània' or anything else doesn't have any practical consequence. It is all about sending a signal.

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