2020: Learn Hard With a Vengeance [DE, ZH, ES, KO, GD]

[LunaMoonsilver]

7th Jan 2020 / Day 7

Went to the cinema in the evening to see Bombshell, which meant getting back from work, eating quickly, then heading out again and arriving back finally around 22:30. Still, I did some app work on all the buses I took. Learnt the new words from chapter two of Teach Yourself on the Memrise course, and did the first two lessons (of, like, sixty?!) on LearnGaelic. They were both about the weather! And the film was pretty good, too—Charlize Theron is, as ever, amazing!

Scottish Gaelic
13 min Memrise
6 min Duolingo
14 min LearnGaelic

Mandarin
17 min Memrise (just trying to stay on top of those reviews and haha failing horribly)

Korean
6 min uTalk

8th Jan 2020 / Day 8

Okay, so at this point I'm 3/3 on my morning gym sessions, so on Tuesday night, I decided to book a class for the next morning. I found one, thinking it would be a nice half hour of stretching (because I googled it first!) and uhhhhhh it was not. At one point, I literally thought I was going to die.

Maybe not quite, but still, it was a lot for (a very unfit) me at 07:15!

After I'd done that and work, etc., I crawled home, did my weekly shop (lots of bags so workout+1) and ate... something, then promptly had a three-hour "nap". Hmmm. So, it meant my studying was some app scrambling at the end of the day. Oops!

Scottish Gaelic
12 mins Duolingo
10 mins Memrise
8 mins uTalk

Spanish
18 mins uTalk

9th Jan 2020 / Day 9

A liiiiiittle less tired today, though I don't have much more to show for it. The Memrise course I've been using for Scottish Gaelic is annoying me a little—I don't know if it's a change in standardised spelling, or what, but some of the words it's got are spelt differently to my version of the book, which is just irritating because I keep getting them wrong and don't want to learn bad spelling. It's already difficult enough as it is!

So, I spent a little bit of time today building my own Anki deck, which at some point I'll probably also make into a Memrise/Decks course. Aside from that, I still haven't had a sit-down-and-study session but plan to get a lot done at the weekend. I want to do a little bit of speaking practise because I'd like to do a short video at the end of my initial eighteen days, so that might also be my target for the weekend—as well as spending as much time on Scottish Gaelic as possible.*

*Interspersed with the fact that I've joined a #20kin5days Twitter challenge, which is basically to write a 20,000 word novella from the 10th-14th January... so I'm gonna be juggling my time. Should be fun!

Scottish Gaelic
6 mins uTalk
6 mins Memrise
13 mins Duolingo
9 mins Anki

EDIT: novel to novella; I really should stop writing these things out last thing at night!

[Lianne]

I love your bold plans! I look forward to following your progress, especially as you test out the endangered languages. I'd really like to learn Ojibwe too, one day.

ASL is not an endangered language, though. (Actually I don't think BSL is, either.) There are a lot of endangered sign languages, but ASL is the standard sign language in all of the US and most of Canada, among other countries. It's more likely to be the one overtaking smaller ones, like Maritime Sign Language.

[LunaMoonsilver]

I love your bold plans! I look forward to following your progress, especially as you test out the endangered languages. I'd really like to learn Ojibwe too, one day.

ASL is not an endangered language, though. (Actually I don't think BSL is, either.) There are a lot of endangered sign languages, but ASL is the standard sign language in all of the US and most of Canada, among other countries. It's more likely to be the one overtaking smaller ones, like Maritime Sign Language.

Thank you! And yay, I'm super excited about Ojibwe, especially since there's a Pimsleur course already, as well as a bunch of university lectures online, so I feel like I can really get into it!

As for sign languages... they're a very interesting case when it comes to endangered languages. Basically, although I did a lot of work on endangered languages at university, sign languages never came up. In September, however, I went to a European Day of Languages talk in London, where Dr Seyfeddinipur from SOAS said, in passing, that all sign languages are endangered because of cochlear implants. She works exclusively in endangered languages (sending linguists out into the field etc.) and this was something I hadn't really thought of before so I decided to look into it a little.

Basically, even national sign languages (which all the ones I've chosen—ASL, BSL and DGS are) are classed as vulnerable, insomuch as they've been included in endangered language research at all, even though they also threaten the existence of village sign languages. Part of this is because of an increase in cochlear implants and the advice of some doctors that Deaf patients who are now hearing shouldn't be exposed to sign languages (not every doctor, but it seems like it happens a lot!), but also because even nationally-recognised sign languages are usually not taught in mainstream schools and the fact that parent-to-child transmission is already statistically small. (This seems less likely with village sign languages, which usually arise because there's such a high proportion of Deaf people in one place, but then they're immediately threatened if there's contact with a national sign language—so the cycle goes on.)

This study (PDF) is interesting because they've changed a questionnaire that assesses the vitality of spoken languages to account for sign languages and found that national sign languages, including ones like New Zealand Sign Language—which is nationally recognised and legally protected, unlike BSL for example—are still vulnerable. There's also another study (PDF) which talks specifically about NZSL and its status as 'vulnerable/unsafe'.

I can't find a link to read this study (German Sign Language (DGS) as an instance of an endangered language?) but the abstract summarises that the author considers DGS to be an endangered sign language. There's also this article from the World Federation for the Deaf, which outlines a lot of the reasons I have above and has a few more suggestions on how to help preserve sign languages moving forward.

So yeah, there's a lot . And while you're most likely right that ASL isn't endangered as such, the fact is that it likely will be in the future (from all the research I've seen) and although its existence is a threat to smaller sign languages, its existence is also threatened by spoken languages. Plus, one of the other issues raised regarding sign languages in general is that they are rarely learnt by the hearing community and often not seen as prestige languages, so it seemed worth flagging them up.

Tl;dr: You're not wrong, in that ASL/BSL/DGS might not be endangered now, but they most likely will be in future, and I thought it would be good to raise awareness about them. (And they're gonna be fun/interesting to learn!)

[guyome]

Interesting to read more about sign languages, thanks!

I see that you have put Manchu in your list of languages to study in 2020, let me know if I can help with resources!

[LunaMoonsilver]

Interesting to read more about sign languages, thanks!

I see that you have put Manchu in your list of languages to study in 2020, let me know if I can help with resources!

No worries; they're so interesting so it was fun to go down a little rabbit hole of research there!

And oooooh yes, if there's anything you think I should know about re: resources, please let me know! I have a handful on a list somewhere but I haven't found a lot so far tbh.

[Lianne]

Wow, I see you've done way more research than I have on the subject of sign languages! Those are very good points that I hadn't thought of. I like to think there's gradual movement towards more recognition and respect for Deaf culture and sign languages, but my perception of that is likely due to the circles I run in.

I would love for ASL to be taught in public schools alongside French (in my Canadian context). I know kids at my school learn fingerspelling, and some of them learn to sign O Canada, but that's about it. It would be such a useful skill!

[guyome]

And oooooh yes, if there's anything you think I should know about re: resources, please let me know! I have a handful on a list somewhere but I haven't found a lot so far tbh.

Yes, there really isn't a lot of resources to learn Manchu (plenty to read though!).

If I'm not mistaken the only textbook available in English (except Möllendorff) is Getraude Roth Li, Manchu: A Textbook for Reading Documents. It is really well done but the drawback is that it is not organised in lessons. It starts right away with authentic texts (in both Manchu script and romanisation), each one of them followed by a vocabulary list, notes about grammar, reviews, and exercises. There is a Grammar section at the end of the book, which is not essential (the notes and reviews are detailed enough) but is useful as a reference tool. There is also an introduction presenting the alphabet, a Manchu-English word list at the back, and various others appendices.
The second edition (2010) has apprently been made a bit more beginner friendly, mainly by adding a basic overview of Manchu grammar in the first reading selection.
All in all, it is a great book and it defintely teaches most of what is needed to read Manchu texts. But, as I said, it might be a bit tough to get into it since authentic texts from day one means the book presents you with a lot of words and grammar to learn at once.

One way to alleviate this might be to work (or at least skim) through the Wikibooks Manchu course. I haven't used it so I can't vouch for its quality, but it might at least be useful in making you familiar with some basic grammatical features and vocabulary. Depending on your preferences though, you may prefer tackling Roth Li's book first.

And that's more or less all there is to learn Manchu through English.

Other useful resources include:
- https://buleku.org/home (Manchu dictionaries put together)
- https://manc.hu/en (a collection of texts presented with romanisation and in-built lexicon)

As far as audio is concerned, material is pretty much inexistant (even if you add Sibe materials).
Roth Li has put online recordings (made by a Sibe speaker) of the first two selections in her book.
There is also a Chinese book, 满语365句, that comes with a CD. It is a collection of 365 sentences on various mundane topics. I don't know if it still available for sale though.
Some Manchu/Sibe can be found on Youtube or Youku (talks with elders, readings, songs written by Manchu language enthousiasts, like Arki ucun).

[LunaMoonsilver]

Wow, I see you've done way more research than I have on the subject of sign languages! Those are very good points that I hadn't thought of. I like to think there's gradual movement towards more recognition and respect for Deaf culture and sign languages, but my perception of that is likely due to the circles I run in.

I would love for ASL to be taught in public schools alongside French (in my Canadian context). I know kids at my school learn fingerspelling, and some of them learn to sign O Canada, but that's about it. It would be such a useful skill!

Ha, I was just really interested in it when she mentioned it—because I hadn't really thought of it that way before! I hope there is but I think if you're outside of those circles you really don't see a lot of movement surrounding it and, at least in the UK, there's such a concern about getting young people to learn any language that isn't spoken English that signed languages aren't even touched upon.

It's such a shame and I agree, they should teach signed languages in schools! Aside from BSL-added programming here (the news is the first thing I think of, but I think the BBC does some hours of the day with a BSL interpreter), there are kid's TV programmes that teach signing—so it's strange that nurseries/schools don't capitalise on that in the early years, I think.

[LunaMoonsilver]

And oooooh yes, if there's anything you think I should know about re: resources, please let me know! I have a handful on a list somewhere but I haven't found a lot so far tbh.

Yes, there really isn't a lot of resources to learn Manchu (plenty to read though!).

If I'm not mistaken the only textbook available in English (except Möllendorff) is Getraude Roth Li, Manchu: A Textbook for Reading Documents. It is really well done but the drawback is that it is not organised in lessons. It starts right away with authentic texts (in both Manchu script and romanisation), each one of them followed by a vocabulary list, notes about grammar, reviews, and exercises. There is a Grammar section at the end of the book, which is not essential (the notes and reviews are detailed enough) but is useful as a reference tool. There is also an introduction presenting the alphabet, a Manchu-English word list at the back, and various others appendices.
The second edition (2010) has apprently been made a bit more beginner friendly, mainly by adding a basic overview of Manchu grammar in the first reading selection.
All in all, it is a great book and it defintely teaches most of what is needed to read Manchu texts. But, as I said, it might be a bit tough to get into it since authentic texts from day one means the book presents you with a lot of words and grammar to learn at once.

One way to alleviate this might be to work (or at least skim) through the Wikibooks Manchu course. I haven't used it so I can't vouch for its quality, but it might at least be useful in making you familiar with some basic grammatical features and vocabulary. Depending on your preferences though, you may prefer tackling Roth Li's book first.

And that's more or less all there is to learn Manchu through English.

Other useful resources include:
- https://buleku.org/home (Manchu dictionaries put together)
- https://manc.hu/en (a collection of texts presented with romanisation and in-built lexicon)

As far as audio is concerned, material is pretty much inexistant (even if you add Sibe materials).
Roth Li has put online recordings (made by a Sibe speaker) of the first two selections in her book.
There is also a Chinese book, 满语365句, that comes with a CD. It is a collection of 365 sentences on various mundane topics. I don't know if it still available for sale though.
Some Manchu/Sibe can be found on Youtube or Youku (talks with elders, readings, songs written by Manchu language enthousiasts, like Arki ucun).

Oh, wow, this is amazing, thank you so much! I had a couple of those things listed but you've just added significantly to my resources, haha! I noticed on your log you're using a text that used Korean as a base; do you think there are a few more resources in Korean, or not? I'm hoping that I'll be able to use Mandarin to my advantage at least!

[guyome]

Glad I could help!

I noticed on your log you're using a text that used Korean as a base; do you think there are a few more resources in Korean, or not? I'm hoping that I'll be able to use Mandarin to my advantage at least!

Yes, there are other books similar to the Nogeoldae I posted about on my log:
- Soaron / 小兒論 (Discussion with a Little Child)
- P'alsea / 八歲兒 (Eight-Year-Old Child)
- Samyeok chonghae / 三譯總解 (Extracts from the Manchu translation of Romance of the Three Kingdoms)
According to this article, together with the Nogeoldae, they apparently became known as the "Four Books of Qing studies", to match the "Four Books" of Confucianism

The Soaron and the P'alsea are short and simple, I think they could be good reading material for somebody knowing a little Manchu. The original (18th c.?) editions have been digitized by a Korean library (same for the Samyeok chonghae), so I got pdf of them years ago. Let me know if you want them!

As far as modern Korean textbooks for Manchu are concerned, I wouldn't be surprised if some existed but I don't know about any.
About Chinese textbooks, I have seen some but never used any, so I can't really comment, sorry!