Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

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DaveAgain
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby DaveAgain » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:06 pm

StringerBell wrote:2) I would love to go on to test my vocabulary knowledge with less common words - I wish it didn't stop at 5,000 words. I'm not really sure what is the takeaway from this test, other than knowing at least 5,000 words is enough for everyday conversation and watching TV but not enough to comfortably read novels, which is where I am.
I'm surprised you say that. I got a similar receptive score for French, and I feel I can comfortably read novels - the number of unknown words varies between books, but it's not a problem.

EDIT
I think the productive test needs to use something like cloze deletion. You have to know the appropriate word AND spell it correctly. It would be nice if they could test oral production, but clearly they have to design the test with computer marking in mind.
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:26 pm

DaveAgain wrote:I think the productive test needs to use something like cloze deletion. You have to know the appropriate word AND spell it correctly. It would be nice if they could test oral production, but clearly they have to design the test with computer marking in mind.


My problem with cloze deletion is that I can come up with lots and lots of words that could fit in the context, but I often can't think of the specific word they're looking for - not because I don't know it (or don't understand the sentence).

In the example I gave, I would never in a million years think that a full moon would cause poor sleep or weird dreams, so even though I could read the sentence easily and know the word for moon, it never occurred to me that was the word they were fishing for, I kept thinking of physical problems that could cause poor sleep like a full stomach or other options that didn't match the definite article they supplied. With cloze deletion there are just too many possibilities, and I will think of every possible one except for the one I'm supposed to - but that doesn't mean my active vocabulary is crap. In fact, I think my active vocabulary is quite strong, it's my grammar that sucks.
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Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:33 pm

Week #7: Feb 12-18

ITALIAN:

Cumulative Italian pages read: 1,735
Goal: 700 pages

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - reread
2) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #3 Ora Basta!
3) 257 pgs: Noi Siamo Infinito (The Perks of Being a Wallflower) - reread
4) 296 pgs: La Ragazza Del Treno (The Girl on the Train) - R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
5) 297 pgs: Cercando Alaska (Looking for Alaska) - w/ parallel text
6) 234 pgs: Molto Forte Incredibilmente Vicino (Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close) - reread w/audiobook
7) 188 pgs: Un Italiano in America - w/parallel text
8) 337 pgs: Colpa delle stelle (The Fault in our Stars) R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text

Books in Progress:
-Chocolat
-Lo Strano Caso Del Cane Ucciso a Mezzanotte (read 26 pages)

Written: 7,030 Words
Goal: 7,000 Words

This week's book was emotionally brutal. It was very well written, so no complaints there. It was essentially a love story. The narrator is a girl with cancer who is sort of in remission, though she's halfway between the living and dead. She's connected to an oxygen tank, and is constantly having issues with her lungs filling with fluid and not being able to breath. She falls in love with a boy who lost his leg to cancer. There's an amazing adventure and a lot of philosophizing, and some very intense slow motion death. Since both I and my husband have unpredictable chronic health issues, this book felt a little too relatable. I was pretty much crying the entire time I was reading, which was not only inconvenient (I had to schedule my reading time based on when I didn't have video conferences for work, etc...) but it also made me feel really depressed the entire week. I highly recommend this book as long as you aren't a cry baby like me! :oops:

POLISH:

Cumulative Polish pages read: 159

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Dziennik Cwaniaczka (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - R-L with audiobook + w/parallel text (3x)

I finally got a few of the English versions of books in the series I'm reading, and last night I bought 2 more audiobooks in Polish. I've been doing mostly just Polish with John podcasts this week, but now that I've got my book materials ready to go, I'm hoping to get back to reading.

My Polish LE are really weird; I can understand almost everything my partner says, but I have to rely on GT to figure out how to say anything; I can't come up with more than 1 or 2 words. Forget about full sentences. I wasn't this bad even when I first starting speaking Polish, so my regression is quite impressive.

LATIN:

I've been using Cambridge Latin decks on Memrise to review throughout the week. At this point, I am only using Memrise for Latin review, and for that I think it's not a waste of time. This week I hope to finish the last bits of Chapter 14 and do some scriptorium.
5 x
Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

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cjareck
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby cjareck » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:46 am

StringerBell wrote:My Polish LE are really weird; I can understand almost everything my partner says, but I have to rely on GT to figure out how to say anything; I can't come up with more than 1 or 2 words. Forget about full sentences. I wasn't this bad even when I first starting speaking Polish, so my regression is quite impressive.

Well, my Hebrew LEs are the opposite - I can speak a lot, but understand a little. Perhaps the reason is my extraverted personality, but perhaps - at least part is an effect of the FSI method. I overlearned some drills and liked it very much. Now I shadow phrases or sentences that I think maybe useful or are important for my research.
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HE vocabulary:
: 6550 / 10000


MSA
DLI
: 12 / 50
ESKK
: 4 / 15
vocabulary
: 446 / 2000


Mandarin
Assimil
: 4 / 105
Vocabulary
: 713 / 2000

StringerBell
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:16 am

Week #8: Feb 19-25

ITALIAN:

Cumulative Italian pages read: 1,988
Goal: 800 pages

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - reread
2) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #3 Ora Basta!
3) 257 pgs: Noi Siamo Infinito (The Perks of Being a Wallflower) - reread
4) 296 pgs: La Ragazza Del Treno (The Girl on the Train) - R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
5) 297 pgs: Cercando Alaska (Looking for Alaska) - w/ parallel text
6) 234 pgs: Molto Forte Incredibilmente Vicino (Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close) - reread w/audiobook
7) 188 pgs: Un Italiano in America - w/parallel text
8) 337 pgs: Colpa delle stelle (The Fault in our Stars) R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text

Books in Progress:
-Chocolat (read 253 pages)
-Lo Strano Caso Del Cane Ucciso a Mezzanotte (read 26 pages)

Written: 7,030 Words
Goal: 8,000 Words

I read a total of 253 out of 310 pages in Chocolat. What an amazaingly well written book! I was not expecting to like it so much. Turns out it's the first in a 4 book series. I bought my own copy plus the next book in the series in English because I would love to reread it in the future.

I was a little disappointed that I couldn't manage to finish the whole book in one week, but it was just way too much since with R-L I end up having to read double the number of pages in the book. I was starting to really stress about it so yesterday I just decided that I don't want to be stressing about reading books, so I made peace with not completing it. I didn't do any writing this week, so next week I'm hoping to write 2,000 words to get back on track and finish Chocolat.

I had an unusually busy and chaotic week; after more than a year of desperately trying to buy a house, we finally seem to have managed to buy one. I don't want to celebrate yet since it could still fall apart after the inspection or who knows, maybe the coronavirus exploding in the area. There will be a lot to do on the house assuming we actually close on it, so I don't expect a lot of free time in the forseable future. I have to be really careful about pacing my energy expenditure, which includes mental energy. Things are simultaneously ramping up at work and I've had less free time, so that double whammy is probably going to lead to a significant reduction in my language studies in general.

I'm almost at 2,000 pages read and I am not feeling like my reading ability is improving. I wonder at what point - if ever - it will actually become noticeably easier.

POLISH:

Cumulative Polish pages read: 159

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Dziennik Cwaniaczka (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - R-L with audiobook + w/parallel text (3x)

Books in Progress:
-Rodrick Rządzi, up to page 49 (~12 pages as far as page count is concerned, I'm not adding it to the page count until the whole thing is finished)

I read a little bit in a new book in the series, but I got sidetracked in my mania to attempt to finish the Italian book so Polish got relegated to the back burner. I'm going to focus more on Polish next week and less on Italian.

LATIN:

Very little Latin done this week beside a few minutes of Memrise here and there.
4 x
Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:42 pm

Week #9: Feb 26-Mar 3

ITALIAN:

Cumulative Italian pages read: 2,045
Goal: 900 pages

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - reread
2) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #3 Ora Basta!
3) 257 pgs: Noi Siamo Infinito (The Perks of Being a Wallflower) - reread
4) 296 pgs: La Ragazza Del Treno (The Girl on the Train) - R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
5) 297 pgs: Cercando Alaska (Looking for Alaska) - w/ parallel text
6) 234 pgs: Molto Forte Incredibilmente Vicino (Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close) - reread w/audiobook
7) 188 pgs: Un Italiano in America - w/parallel text
8) 337 pgs: Colpa delle stelle (The Fault in our Stars) R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
9) 310 pgs: Chocolat R-L w/audiobook+parallel text

Books in Progress:
-Lo Strano Caso Del Cane Ucciso a Mezzanotte (read 26 pages)

Written: 7,030 Words
Goal: 9,000 Words

Well if I thought last week was chaotic, this week was turned up to 11. Given that, I am proud of myself for at least finishing the last 60 pages of Chocolat, even though I didn't do any writing. I'm not sure if/when I will be able to get back on track with writing. I'm not sure what my goals for next week should be: catch up with writing or get some more reading done. I probably won't be able to do both.

POLISH:

Cumulative Polish pages read: 209

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Dziennik Cwaniaczka (Diary of a Wimpy Kid #1) R-L with audiobook+parallel text (3x)
2) 50 pgs: Rodrick Rządzi (Rodrick Rules #2) R-L with audiobook+parallel text

I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get much done this week with Polish, but I was able to get through a whole book. Each audiobook chapter is only 2-3 minutes, so it's really easy to fit them in throughout the day. I think I'll go back and reread this one next week intensively, looking up all the words I don't know.

Even though it still feels like there are an endless amount of words I don't have a good grip on in this kids' series, I had an experience that made me realize I'm not doing too bad: my normal routine is to:
1) read in English/listen in Polish, then
2) read in Polish/listen in Polish

However, there was one chapter where I got mixed up and just started reading/listening in Polish without the English text first. It took me 3 pages to realize something wasn't right because I wasn't having any trouble understanding up to that point.

I decided to lower my reading goal for Polish to 2,000 pages. There's a chance I might actually be able to reach that by the end of the year, depending on how long the house-buying/moving process takes and what my work schedule looks like in the meantime.

POLISH QUESTION:

I saw the word "wóz" used both to mean a car or van and then later in the book to mean a cart or a carriage. I looked up the definition and it seems like it means everything under the sun related to vehicles: car, truck, van, vehicle, cart, wagon, etc... Is this correct? When would you use wóz instead of samochód, for example?

LATIN:

Nothing this week. I'll be extremely lucky if I'm able to get even a few minutes here and there with Latin. I might have to wait until after I move to resume this language.
Last edited by StringerBell on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

StringerBell
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:51 pm

I wanted to mention a new thing I've started doing during my Italian Language Exchanges.

One person starts telling a story, and after a few sentences the other person takes over and continues telling the story. It keeps going back and forth for as long as you want the story to continue on. We have a tendency to make our stories really ridiculous, which is actually quite entertaining.

Since I have an extremely difficult time with storytelling in Italian, it's no surprise that this exercise is really challenging.
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Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby cjareck » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:22 am

StringerBell wrote:POLISH QUESTION:
I saw the word "wóz" used both to mean a car or van and then later in the book to mean a cart or a carriage. I looked up the definition and it seems like it means everything under the sun related to vehicles: car, truck, van, vehicle, cart, wagon, etc... Is this correct? When would you use wóz instead of samochód, for example?


"Wóz" is used as an equivalent of a car (or van) in colloquial speech. Mostly it refers to a personal car that you are proud of. A sports car, sedan or cars up to 7 persons. Eventually, I could describe a van with this word. But for trucks, especially big ones, it is used only extremely rare. The name for them is "ciężarówka". The formal name, used only in documents is "samochód ciężarowy"

"Wóz" itself is a name for a cart or wagon - I don't really know the difference between the two, but it is something that was rather used to transport goods not people. Especially in agriculture. It is also used as a name of the Ursa Maior and Ursa Minor constellations ("Wielki Wóz" / "Mały Wóz" or translated from Latin - "Wielka Niedźwiedzica" / "Mała Niedźwiedzica")
3 x
Please feel free to correct me in any language


HE vocabulary:
: 6550 / 10000


MSA
DLI
: 12 / 50
ESKK
: 4 / 15
vocabulary
: 446 / 2000


Mandarin
Assimil
: 4 / 105
Vocabulary
: 713 / 2000

StringerBell
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:59 am

Week #10: Mar 4 - Mar 10

ITALIAN:

Cumulative Italian pages read: 2,045
Goal: 1,000 pages

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - reread
2) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #3 Ora Basta!
3) 257 pgs: Noi Siamo Infinito (The Perks of Being a Wallflower) - reread
4) 296 pgs: La Ragazza Del Treno (The Girl on the Train) - R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
5) 297 pgs: Cercando Alaska (Looking for Alaska) - w/ parallel text
6) 234 pgs: Molto Forte Incredibilmente Vicino (Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close) - reread w/audiobook
7) 188 pgs: Un Italiano in America - w/parallel text
8) 337 pgs: Colpa delle stelle (The Fault in our Stars) R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
9) 310 pgs: Chocolat R-L w/audiobook+parallel text

Books in Progress:
-Eleanor Oliphant sta benissimo (E. O. is completely fine)
-Lo Strano Caso Del Cane Ucciso a Mezzanotte (read 26 pages)

Written: 7,030 Words
Goal: 10,000 Words

I did very little Italian this week beyond my normal 2x/week LE and evening podcast listening. I started reading Eleanor Oliphant sta benissimo using the English version as a parallel text. Once I hit ~5th chapter I realized that I'd forgotten I bought the audiobook, so I will switch over to R-L for the remainder of the book. I'm kind of regretting buying so many audiobooks because I think now I prefer doing parallel text without the audiobooks but since I have them I may as well use them.

Again, I did no writing this week. I seem to have a block against doing it - I don't know why. I'm going to make an attempt to at least write 1,000 in the next week even if it means no reading.

POLISH:

Cumulative Polish pages read: 259

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Dziennik Cwaniaczka (Diary of a Wimpy Kid #1) R-L with audiobook+parallel text, intensive (3x)
2) 50 pgs: Rodrick Rządzi (Rodrick Rules #2) R-L with audiobook+parallel text, intensive (2x)

I was able to reread book #2 intensively. I'm not yet sure if I'll move on to a new book next week or perhaps reread these first two before moving on.
4 x
Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

StringerBell
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Re: Crooked logs make straight fires. (Polish, Italian, Latin)

Postby StringerBell » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:01 pm

Week #11: Mar 11 - Mar 17

ITALIAN:

Cumulative Italian pages read: 2,045
Goal: 1,100 pages

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #1 - reread
2) 50 pgs: Un Diario di una Schiappa (Diary of a Wimpy Kid) #3 Ora Basta!
3) 257 pgs: Noi Siamo Infinito (The Perks of Being a Wallflower) - reread
4) 296 pgs: La Ragazza Del Treno (The Girl on the Train) - R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
5) 297 pgs: Cercando Alaska (Looking for Alaska) - w/ parallel text
6) 234 pgs: Molto Forte Incredibilmente Vicino (Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close) - reread w/audiobook
7) 188 pgs: Un Italiano in America - w/parallel text
8) 337 pgs: Colpa delle stelle (The Fault in our Stars) R-L w/ audiobook+parallel text
9) 310 pgs: Chocolat R-L w/audiobook+parallel text

Books in Progress:
-Chapters 1-5 of Eleanor Oliphant sta benissimo (E. O. is completely fine)
-Lo Strano Caso Del Cane Ucciso a Mezzanotte (read 26 pages)

Written: 9,100 Words
Goal: 11,000 Words

No reading this week but I wrote 2,070 words, so at least I'm starting to make up for the weeks I missed. I'm having a hard time getting back into reading. Honestly, I'm having a hard time across the board as far as language learning goes. The futility of constantly working without seeing any improvements is making me question how much longer I want to continue spinning my wheels. Example: I spent a long time writing a page-long entry using some constructions that I was struggling with and the end result was... no improvement, I'm struggling with them just as much as before.

POLISH:

Cumulative Polish pages read: 309

Books Completed:
1) 50 pgs: Dziennik Cwaniaczka (Diary of a Wimpy Kid #1) R-L with audiobook+parallel text, intensive, extensive (3x)
2) 50 pgs: Rodrick Rządzi (Rodrick Rules #2) R-L with audiobook+parallel text, intensive (2x)
3) 50 pgs: Ubaw Po Pachy (#4) R-L with audiobook+parallel text

I'm seriously considering stopping Polish indefinitely. I know this for sure: I am completely unable to memorize declension rules. I tried and it doesn't work for me. I keep hearing that memorizing declension rules is pointless anyway and the only way is to read and listen a lot until you remember what sounds right. This makes a lot of sense, but a really big problem is that this doesn't seem to work for me, either.

At this point I've spent close to 2,000 hours reading and listening to Polish and I have almost no idea declension-wise what sounds right. If 2,000 hours isn't enough to start getting a grip on this, it doesn't seem likely that a few hundred hours per year (one hour/day) is going to make an impact in the next decade. It's time to be honest with myself about what I can and can't do. I can't put together even extremely simple 5 year old-level sentences. I miss a ton of words when reading a children's level book even after reading it in English. In fact, I can't comfortably understand children's level stuff without either an English translation or looking up tons of words.

When I think about how much time and effort I've put into Italian (reading/speaking) with disappointing results, I can't realistically expect to accomplish something similar (which is still crappy) or even better with a language that's much more opaque. As much as I love the idea of learning a variety languages, I am just not a polyglot.
5 x
Italian: Read 5,000 pages : 2045 / 5000
Italian: Write 50,000 words : 9100 / 50000
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts


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