Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:16 am

This evening, listening to Noriko while eating dinner, one episode had her talking about 満員電車. (I had trouble looking this word up, but luckily, it was in the title of the episode.) But the main reason it stuck out at me was because per the kanji readings, I would have expected it to be pronounced something like maan-eeen, but instead it sounded like the English word "mine" except perhaps a hair more drawn out. It's interesting how readings can be smushed together even across kanji boundaries. In fact, the n in man isn't in evidence at all!

The next episode opened with her commenting about how the weather has been nice lately which is unusual since it rains a lot in Belfast. She said something that sounded like "harurashi", but I was unsuccessful in looking it up later. It stuck out at me since it sounded like a Grammar Point. I vaguely recalled something about rashi meaning "seems like" so it could be Spring-like or perhaps clear weather-like. (Though I looked it up just now and Jisho tells me the later is actually hare, not haru. I could never remember that one, as my many failures on WK will attest)

I also remembered the words "sanpi ryouron" that she said a lot to look up later. But really, I think that's more telling of my progress in Japanese than anything. Nowadays, if I focus, I can remember up to three or four unknown words well enough to look them up later. Admittedly, this mostly only works for jukugo - picking out conjugated verb stems is much harder - but still. I'm pretty sure I would not have been able to do that six months ago.
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kelvin921019
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby kelvin921019 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:57 am

golyplot wrote:The next episode opened with her commenting about how the weather has been nice lately which is unusual since it rains a lot in Belfast. She said something that sounded like "harurashi", but I was unsuccessful in looking it up later. It stuck out at me since it sounded like a Grammar Point. I vaguely recalled something about rashi meaning "seems like" so it could be Spring-like or perhaps clear weather-like. (Though I looked it up just now and Jisho tells me the later is actually hare, not haru. I could never remember that one, as my many failures on WK will attest)

I think you're referring to らしい (ra-shi-i). It can either mean "seems like" or "-ish" depending on context. 春らしい can either mean "seems like spring" or "spring-ish" depending on where and how it is placed in a sentence.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:32 pm

This morning, one phrase I noticed from Noriko was "kuchi urusai". I recognized the individual words as "noisy lips" or something like that, but decided to look it up afterwards on Jisho anyway. I was surprised to see that it is actually written as 口煩い.

I was expecting it to use the "lips" kanji 唇, since that's what I remembered from Wanikani. I completely forgot that 口 could also be read as kuchi. I guess this shows how words that appeared much later on in the WK course and that were difficult for me stuck in my memory a lot better, despite being less common. Of course, it doesn't help that 口 is often rendaku'd when it does use the kuchi reading, as in 入口.

As another example, I also noticed her saying "engi no warui" while talking about superstitions. I remembered engi=omen from WK, so I immediately deduced that it meant bad luck. The reason it stuck out at me was actually the use of the no particle, since it seemed to me like it should be using the na adjective connector instead. I've heard that Japanese used to use no in place of na, so maybe that's why.

Anyway, I also looked it up in Jisho and found it interesting that engi can also be performance (演技) in addition to omen (縁起), which I had completely forgotten about. The former is level 23 in Wanikani, while the later is level 44. I guess this is another illustration of how the later level items tended to stick in my memory better, although it probably also has to do with how many times I missed them and had to repeat the reviews as well.
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crush
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby crush » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:34 pm

golyplot wrote:Anyway, I also looked it up in Jisho and found it interesting that engi can also be performance (演技) in addition to omen (縁起), which I had completely forgotten about. The former is level 23 in Wanikani, while the latter is level 44. I guess this is another illustration of how the later level items tended to stick in my memory better, although it probably also has to do with how many times I missed them and had to repeat the reviews as well.

That's funny, 'cuz when you wrote that i immediately thought of 演技 since i've seen that word far more times than 縁起.
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:50 pm

golyplot wrote:As another example, I also noticed her saying "engi no warui" while talking about superstitions. I remembered engi=omen from WK, so I immediately deduced that it meant bad luck. The reason it stuck out at me was actually the use of the no particle, since it seemed to me like it should be using the na adjective connector instead. I've heard that Japanese used to use no in place of na, so maybe that's why.

Not sure if I've ever heard of no being used in place of na in the past. There are some cases in modern Japanese where the two are interchangeable when used with a word that can function both as a noun and a na-adjective, but "engi" is a pure noun and "warui" is the adjective in the phrase. Technically you could replace the adjective phrase "engi no warui" with the noun phrase "warui engi no" (followed by whatever noun the phrase is describing), it would just be a little awkward, like saying "X of/with the ill omens" instead of "ill-omened X".
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:50 am

vonPeterhof wrote:Not sure if I've ever heard of no being used in place of na in the past. There are some cases in modern Japanese where the two are interchangeable when used with a word that can function both as a noun and a na-adjective, but "engi" is a pure noun and "warui" is the adjective in the phrase. Technically you could replace the adjective phrase "engi no warui" with the noun phrase "warui engi no" (followed by whatever noun the phrase is describing), it would just be a little awkward, like saying "X of/with the ill omens" instead of "ill-omened X".


Maybe I'm just bad at grammar then.
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 am

Well to be fair, determining whether a particular word is a noun or a na-adjective often has more to do with the word's lexical meaning and usage than any hard and fast grammatical rules, plus the "[noun] no [adjective]" structure can be pretty counterintuitive even if you're familiar with the most common uses of the particle no. I'd say you're still doing a great job most of the time.
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:17 am

I learned shirokujichuu from Noriko today. However, after looking it up, I was surprised to discover that it is segmented shi-roku-ji-chuu. While trying to guess the meaning before looking it up, I had mentally segmented it as shiro-kuji-chuu (white article something?). Also, I forgot that four could be "shi" anyway since it's almost always "yon".

Edit: I also misremembered article as kuji rather than kiji. It could have been "lottery" though. Arg, why does Japanese have to have so many opaque interchangeable sounding words?
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:22 pm

Last night I finished listening to Noriko for the seventh time and started my second go through the 4989 American Life podcast. I still look up words I hear sometimes, but they tend to all be words that I learned long ago and then forgot, such as shukujitsu, yokujitsu, or nenmatsu. But I suppose if I keep relearning them, eventually they'll stick.

P.S. I noticed that sometimes, Jisho lists multiple Wanikani levels for a word. For example, 説得 is listed as WK level 19 and WK level 21. Anyone know why?
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby 白田龍 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:51 pm

golyplot wrote:P.S. I noticed that sometimes, Jisho lists multiple Wanikani levels for a word. For example, 説得 is listed as WK level 19 and WK level 21. Anyone know why?


Wanikani has 説得 lvl 19 but 説得する is lvl 21:

https://www.wanikani.com/vocabulary/%E8%AA%AC%E5%BE%97
https://www.wanikani.com/vocabulary/%E8 ... 9%E3%82%8B
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