Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:02 pm

While browsing Tae Kim's grammar guide today, I noticed an example sentence using ちゃった (貧乏ながらも、高級なバッグを買っちゃったよ). I was surprised and figured this meant that Tae Kim must have already introduced that grammar.

I did a search and it turns out it was in fact covered on a previous page. It turns out that ちゃった is just the casual form of てしまった (te + shimau), meaning "an action that has taken place unintentionally often with unsatisfactory results".

I guess this shows how simply reading about grammar isn't enough to actually remember it. I'd already read about this grammar and still completely forgotten about it.

Incidentally, I think the English translation of the example sentence ("Even while I’m poor, I ended up buying a high quality bag."), doesn't really capture this nuance. The English version doesn't imply that the purchase was unintentional and/or unfortunate at all.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:24 pm

Last night, I watched A Silent Voice: The Movie. I watched it with English subtitles, so it was more for entertainment than Japanese practice. The one thing that stuck out to me most was when Shouya went to Shouko's home and saw her about to commit suicide, and still paused to take off his shoes before rushing in to save her. That little detail seemed so Japanese.

I also completed my first "fast level" on Wanikani last night. I'd been debating whether to do the fast levels at maximum speed (double the already fast pace of normal levels), but I decided to go for it. I expected that the review load on Wanikani will get pretty crushing by the end (the review piles are often exhausting already and fast levels will nearly double that), but it's only 10 weeks (9.5 now) and I figured I'll be able to manage.

I'm not sure how much I'd learn powering through (though admittedly the later levels are mostly rare kanji to begin with), but it will be nice to just get the kanji study over with so I can move on to other things. That's also the reason I didn't subscribe to Bunpro when my free trial ended a couple weeks ago. I figured that I won't have much time for non-WK stuff like that. I plan to start doing Bunpro again once I've finished level 60 on Wanikani in late December. Assuming all goes well, I'm on track to pass level 60 the morning of December 23rd, shortly before Christmas. Talk about a nice Christmas present.

Anyway, this means that following my level up last night, I unlocked 154 lessons. I've never seen the image for when you have 100+ lessons before, but I'll be seeing it a lot in the future. It only gets worse from here.

Image
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:36 am

This evening I moved on to EC lesson 3 Basic skit.

Looking at the script, I was puzzled by the line " あーいけない!あーあ、あげすぎちゃったあ。", with the translation listed as "Oh, no! Darn! I deep-fried it too long.".

I recognized ちゃった as the grammar I discussed previously, about doing something accidentally, and figured that the すぎ must be a form of sugiru (too much). However, I didn't recognize あげ. Apparently, although it normally means to raise (上げる), it can also mean to deep fry, per Jisho. I wonder where that meaning came from.


I also wasn't sure what おいしそう meant, but after looking at the translation ("That looks delicious..."), I realized it must be oishii + sou (seeming). I guess they chop off the i in this case. I recall having a hard time back when I was doing Bunpro trying to keep straight which grammar points used which forms of the preceding words. Especially since in some cases there are distinct grammar points using the same ending word with only subtle changes in the form of the preceding word. All those sous and yous and mitais and the like get really confusing.
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crush
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby crush » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:08 pm

golyplot wrote:I also wasn't sure what おいしそう meant, but after looking at the translation ("That looks delicious..."), I realized it must be oishii + sou (seeming). I guess they chop off the i in this case. I recall having a hard time back when I was doing Bunpro trying to keep straight which grammar points used which forms of the preceding words. Especially since in some cases there are distinct grammar points using the same ending word with only subtle changes in the form of the preceding word. All those sous and yous and mitais and the like get really confusing.

I think these are the sorts of things that immersion (watching anime/whatever and reading) will help cement in your brain. They're very common. I like reading on my phone using Yomichan like a little ebook reader, later i may try using my actual ebook reader but those dictionaries are a lot slower than Yomichan (which is almost instant) so probably better off for when i rely on it much less.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:57 am

I think I'm beginning to understand Japanese with Noriko better again. This morning while listening, the word kyuuhyaku jumped out at my. My thought process went roughly like this

Kyuuhyaku... ten hundreds? Maybe that's just a fancy way of saying a thousand. Wait no, she said ni sen kyuu hyaku so that can't be it. Two thousand ??? - oh it must be two thousand nine hundred.

The impressive part is that I managed to subconsciously recognize the sounds and keep them in my memory long enough to puzzle that out, despite mixing up the words for nine and ten. I think it shows how there's a long process of training subconscious sound recognition and chunking before you can get anywhere interesting.

Also, I was thinking about subscribing to Crunchyroll to watch Polar Bear Cafe since I constantly see it recommended for beginners everywhere. However, I looked at r/crunchyroll a bit and discovered that most of the subreddit is people complaining about server outages and constant buffering while streaming. Yikes! It's a shame they can't get their act together and provide a usable service. One person joked that the only reason to subscribe to Crunchyroll is so that you don't feel bad when pirating the shows.

Also, I got bored and gave up on trying to keep up with NHK News Easy today.
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dampingwire
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby dampingwire » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:39 pm

golyplot wrote:Also, I was thinking about subscribing to Crunchyroll to watch Polar Bear Cafe since I constantly see it recommended for beginners everywhere. However, I looked at r/crunchyroll a bit and discovered that most of the subreddit is people complaining about server outages and constant buffering while streaming. Yikes! It's a shame they can't get their act together and provide a usable service.


I watched it without a subscription. If you don't care about HD, then it works fine (or at least it did for me). I used Firefox on Linux and it didn't even interrupt it with adverts (which it did the last time I watched something there - no idea what changed). Anyway, you can at least try it out and see if you like it enough to pay for higher definition cartoons!

Oh, I could switch off the subtitles too. Again that seems to be a new feature.

golyplot wrote:One person joked that the only reason to subscribe to Crunchyroll is so that you don't feel bad when pirating the shows.


AFAIK crunchyroll pay the producers for the right to broadcast the shows. crunchyroll choose to let you see them for free (for the usual "get you interested" reasons I guess) so you can watch for free with a clear conscience if you want.
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新完全マスター N2聴解 : 94 / 103新完全マスター N2読解 : 99 / 177
新完全マスター N2文法 : 197 / 197TY Comp. German : 0 / 389

golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:01 am

I feel like I've reached "escape velocity" with Japanese Noriko. I obviously can't understand everything, but I feel like I can understand enough know to usefully learn things from listening to it. I feel like I could probably figure out everything from context if I concentrated hard and played it over and over enough times.


Following a grueling Wanikani review session this evening, my brain was too fried to want to deal with anything Japanese, so instead, I decided to start watching Sword Art Online: Alicization (aka season 3) with English subtitles. I watched the first two episodes, but for some reason, the first episode is basically two episodes back to back, so it was like three normal episodes.

Also, I found out about the VTuber phenomenon last week. I tried watching some videos briefly, but couldn't see the appeal. It's basically like a normal gaming stream, just with a picture of an anime girl on the side. It didn't even seem to be synchronized with the streamer's speech like I expected. It's crazy to think that some people are learning Japanese just due to vtubers. I saw a comment on Reddit saying something like "anime is all subtitled but vtubers often aren't".
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genini1
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby genini1 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:06 pm

golyplot wrote:
Also, I was thinking about subscribing to Crunchyroll to watch Polar Bear Cafe since I constantly see it recommended for beginners everywhere. However, I looked at r/crunchyroll a bit and discovered that most of the subreddit is people complaining about server outages and constant buffering while streaming. Yikes! It's a shame they can't get their act together and provide a usable service. One person joked that the only reason to subscribe to Crunchyroll is so that you don't feel bad when pirating the shows.


Polar Bear Cafe is up on animelon if you don't want to deal with Crunchyroll. It also has the Japanese subs so if you want subtitles, but don't want English ones it's nice.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:22 pm

golyplot wrote:Also, I found out about the VTuber phenomenon last week. I tried watching some videos briefly, but couldn't see the appeal. It's basically like a normal gaming stream, just with a picture of an anime girl on the side. It didn't even seem to be synchronized with the streamer's speech like I expected. It's crazy to think that some people are learning Japanese just due to vtubers. I saw a comment on Reddit saying something like "anime is all subtitled but vtubers often aren't".

As someone who only "fell down the rabbit hole" within the last month, this does seem to be a common first reaction to the whole thing (and I was never really a fan of normal gaming streams in the first place! haven't even played a single game released within the last decade or so..). From what I've seen, few people start out as fans of the vtuber as a concept; the interest is usually piqued by exposure to a particular personality via things like highlight videos, fandom news and crossover memes, and the next thing you know you're up at 5AM in the morning to tune into a collab stream you don't expect to understand much of anyway (hasn't happened to me yet, although the existence of Hololive ID is tempting me to resuscitate my dormant Indonesian :D ).

The synchronization technology is all over the place, with some pro vtubers actually having pretty decent synchronization (and some fans lamenting tech upgrades due to the loss of some of the "wonky charm"). And the translation situation is certainly very reminiscent of the heyday of fansubbed anime, with a lot of the translators being somewhere in the intermediate levels due to the advanced people mostly just enjoying the content in purely Japanese spaces (and that's just for the pros signed to agencies Hololive or Nijisanji, good luck finding any sort of translations for indie vtubers). It's actually somewhat entertaining to see this process develop in the other direction with the successful launch of Hololive EN and a ton of videos of Japanese subbers doing their best to figure out the nuances of English gamer lingo.
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crush
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby crush » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:03 pm

I've never heard of "VTubers", do you have any examples of what you're talking about? There really isn't any regular Japanese content that pulls me in. I like some channels that repair and upgrade old gaming consoles (GameBoys, SNESs, etc.) but due to the nature of their content they aren't updated too frequently (with interesting --to me-- content). It's basically impossible for me to sit online and get lost wasting time in Japanese stuff like i can do too easily in English/Spanish.

From what you all are saying, i'm picturing some version of Cure Dolly playing video games.
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