Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:11 pm

Thanks for the clarification.


Sometimes when listening to podcasts, I try to look up words I heard on Jisho afterwards. This morning, I thought I heard "keisetsu" and decided to look it up. It was probably actually "keisatsu", since that's a much more common word, but I did mean I happened to learn about 蛍雪, which Jisho defines as


蛍雪
Noun
1. diligence in studying (e.g. continuing to study even in such poor light as offered by a firefly or that reflected by snow); diligent study


I thought the definition was hilariously specific at first. Then I realized that it's literally written with the kanji firefly-snow. I probably wouldn't have noticed except that 蛍 is one of the current level kanji I just learned on WK.

P.S. The most recent word I looked up from Japanese with Noriko is 風物詩, things that remind one of a particular season. Of course, I'll probably forget it soon without repetition.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:29 pm

As you may have surmised from the recent lack of updates, I've pretty much been taking a break from Japanese and got busy with other stuff. However, last night I "returned" to Japanese. I decided to try watching Carmen Sandiego Season 3 in Japanese. However, I gave it up almost immediately because I couldn't understand anything and decided that it just wouldn't be worth it. I did however learn the word 辺ぴ (hard to reach place).

This morning, I finished listening to all 221 episodes of Learn Japanese with Noriko and started the second time through.

However, I've mostly just been trying to keep up with Wanikani. I can never seem to find the time to do "real" Japanese study.
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devilyoudont
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby devilyoudont » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:37 pm

I'm wondering if you've tried Erin's Challenge? (https://www.erin.jpf.go.jp/)

It might be helpful to watch narrative videos directed towards learners rather than natives, who have a level of N4 or N5. I listen to podcasts while working, and it's a big help for me. But I would guess that podcasts, which provide no visual context, are one of the more challenging exercises. There might also be youtube videos using direct method which may be helpful for you, rather than watching without comprehension and burning out.

Good luck.
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Joyo Kanji: 1320 / 2136 Japanese Intermediate 2: 4654 / 12000

golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:49 pm

devilyoudont wrote:I'm wondering if you've tried Erin's Challenge? (https://www.erin.jpf.go.jp/)
Good luck.


I've never heard of it, but I'll take a look later. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:13 pm

I went through part of the first lesson of Erin's Challenge, suggested by devilyoudont. It seems like a pretty good resource, though it does demonstrate how far I still have to go as well.

Here's one line in the advanced skit that I puzzled over, which shows how hard Japanese can be.

*listening to skit*: Ken warned Erin to "be careful" about something about Saki, but I couldn't understand what.

*reading the script*: けんた: おこらせるとこわいから気をつけてね
so that's wake up - toko? - wai? - kara=from? - be careful

English translation:
Kenta : Erin, you have to watch out for her.
Kenta : She's pretty scary when she's mad.

<- Huh, that is not at all what I thought it said. Better go back and look again

* Oh wait, おこらせる probably means "to get angry", not "to wake up" like I initially thought. (it turns out that's oKIru not oKOru, something I often miss on WK. Why do all Japanese words have to be so similar sounding? :( )

* so we have get mad - toko? - wai? - kara - be careful
still doesn't make much sense

Oh wait, that こわい is kowai (scary)

get mad - and - scary - from - be careful

と usually means "and", so it still didn't make much sense, but after pondering it for a while, I vaguely recalled that と can also be used as a conditional. And kara also expresses the reason for something. So we finally have

[get mad] -> [scary] therefore [be careful]

Come to think of it, the らせる in おこらせる looks like causative form, although I'm not familiar enough with all the advanced conjugations to be confident about that. So maybe it means "if you make her mad, she is scary, so be careful".


Anyway, that was more or less my thought process. It shows how even with the English translation given, it still took me a long time to understand the sentence. Why does Japanese have to be so hard? :(

It also shows that reading a lot about grammar doesn't help much with actually applying it, although without all my recent grammar study, I probably would have never even remembered those rules in the first place.
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby devilyoudont » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:00 pm

Identifying where written words begin and end is an area where your wanikani study will eventually pay off... when this phrase is written with kanji you can see why... the kanji basically perfectly marks the borders of bunsetsu (vocabulary words + all the sticky bits which attach after them). It's not like that every single time, but it is like that a lot of the time.

怒らせると怖いから気を付けて

Looks like you are doing ok with segmenting words when you hear them out loud tho, you were able to pick a known expression out of a phrase that was 2/3rds grammar you haven't studied/vocab you are working on learning in wanikani.
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:05 am

devilyoudont wrote:Identifying where written words begin and end is an area where your wanikani study will eventually pay off... when this phrase is written with kanji you can see why... the kanji basically perfectly marks the borders of bunsetsu (vocabulary words + all the sticky bits which attach after them). It's not like that every single time, but it is like that a lot of the time.

怒らせると怖いから気を付けて

Looks like you are doing ok with segmenting words when you hear them out loud tho, you were able to pick a known expression out of a phrase that was 2/3rds grammar you haven't studied/vocab you are working on learning in wanikani.


Oh, I figured out that kanji nearly always mark the beginning of a word (apart from the honorifc o prefix) a long time ago. The problem is that that doesn't help when everything is written in kana like it was in this case. This line only had one kanji, and that was in the part I already knew.

けんた: おこらせるとこわいから気をつけてね
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:14 pm

I've been overwhelmed by WK again lately. I'm once again questioning my plan to go through it as fast as possible. Anyway, I finally got around to looking through the rest of Erin's Challenge lesson 1.

The part that stuck out to me was the morning routine video which showed a breakfast of toast, ham, and salad. I'm curious how common and realistic this is. It seems a bit weird to me by American standards, though doubtless there are people with stranger breakfasts over here.

Also, I was surprised by the way the girl held the toothbrush when brushing her teeth.

Image
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:40 am

As I've mentioned before, I listen to Japanese podcasts every day while eating, cooking, using the bathroom, and pretty much every other time I can. However, the vast majority of the time, it goes in one ear and out the other. It's just too easy to get distracted by my own thoughts.

Tonight towards the end of my meal, I finally managed to pull myself away from my own thoughts (imagining ideas for the videogame I'd like to make but probably never will) and actually focus on Noriko for once and was surprised to realize that I could understand almost all of it. Admittedly, that's not usually the case - even in the rare moments where I do manage to focus on the podcasts, I often can't remember enough of the vocab or grammar to really follow it.

However, this time episode 46 was playing and she was talking about input and output and the importance of output, and I managed to understand most of it. In particular, I recall her talking about a book recommending language learners do 30% input and 70% output. She said that she's lucky to have Korean friends to help her with her Korean studies and that you won't get good at Japanese if you don't try to speak and write it. Well, I guess I'm trying to prove her wrong there :P

The following episode was a lot tougher vocab-wise, but I could tell that she was saying something about her computer and her company's COVID-induced work from home preparations.

Anyway, that was a pretty nice confidence boost, especially since I've been pretty demoralized about Japanese the last few days. If only I was better at focusing. Although I do think that goes both ways. It's a lot easier to focus on something you can actually understand. Sometimes I find stuff like English radio in the background difficult to shut out rather than the reverse.
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2020 Log

Postby crush » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:31 am

I hadn't heard of Japanese with Noriko but that is a wonderful resource. The episodes are short, have transcripts, and are interesting and mostly intelligible. I'll definitely be listening to more of her stuff. This is probably a much better use of my time than anime which is still largely incomprehensible. Thanks for sharing this!
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