Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

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ryanheise
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby ryanheise » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:38 am

golyplot wrote:Unfortunately, even Jisho was barely sufficient to get the vaguest understanding of the article. The main problem is Jisho's inability to help much with grammar, but I was also disappointed to discover that it sometimes gets words wrong as well. For example, Jisho failed to properly segment 少しせきが出て into words, resulting in useless definitions


It seems ichi.moe does a better job on this one. (thanks to devilyoudont for the recommendation).
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:31 pm

I haven't been doing much Japanese lately. Partly due to getting busy to other stuff, and party due to discovering that Miraculous Ladybug season 3 part 2 is now on Netflix, so I was watching that instead of Beastars. Also, I've barely made any progress on Lingodeer, since it turns out that the Japanese II lessons are much harder than Japanese I.

Anyway, it's crazy to think that I've now been studying Japanese for almost three months. As far as progress goes, I have now learned 492 kanji, which seems pretty impressive to me for someone who started from nothing three months ago. I do sometimes get similar looking kanji mixed up though. As far as grammar goes, I've covered all the N5 grammar in Lingodeer, but I probably don't remember most of it. Hopefully it will sink in better once I start reading more. I'm actually kind of curious whether I could pass an N5 exam right now. My guess is that I'd ace the kanji section, but fail miserably when it comes to the listening section.

Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to make more time for Japanese now. I'm trying to cut back on how much time I waste on social media, which should help a lot. (Then again, it's hard to resist endlessing discussing the coronavirus news in these times).
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:30 am

In honor of having studied Japanese for three months, I decided to try taking a n5 practice test. I started the one here. It's funny, because I started by trying to read the sentence at the top, and spent over a minute puzzling over it before realizing that it was probably just the instructions, and that the actual question was probably just asking for the reading of the kanji below, which I knew instantly. Luckily, I was able to deduce what it was asking just by looking at the question, so I didn't actually need to understand the instructions. Anyway, I got the first two questions easily, since they were about kanji, but I missed the third question, which was a vocabulary question, so I stopped there. The word they were looking for was うるさい which WK covers (as 煩い)... at level 60!
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dampingwire
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby dampingwire » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:03 am

golyplot wrote:It's funny, because I started by trying to read the sentence at the top, and spent over a minute puzzling over it before realizing that it was probably just the instructions, and that the actual question was probably just asking for the reading of the kanji below, which I knew instantly.


At N5 (and up to N3 iirc) the question wording is pretty fixed and the format of each question doesn't change. So if the first question is "give the kana for the underlined kanji", that's what it will be every time. You can save a good deal of time by not reading the question!

Also, the instructions that are printed on the front are worth reading through: they are also the same every time but I think they are part of the CD they play for the listening test, so it's worth knowing what it sounds like so you can stay relaxed during that part!

golyplot wrote:Anyway, I got the first two questions easily, since they were about kanji, but I missed the third question, which was a vocabulary question, so I stopped there. The word they were looking for was うるさい which WK covers (as 煩い)... at level 60!


うるさいis pretty common, but it is usually written in kana in my experience. So although the kanji is relatively "high level", the word isn't.
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新完全マスター N2聴解 : 94 / 103新完全マスター N2読解 : 99 / 177
新完全マスター N2文法 : 197 / 197TY Comp. German : 0 / 389

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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:06 pm

That's what I figured. WK doesn't include kata-only words at all, but it sometimes includes obscure kanji writings of the same word.

Anyway, seeing three three month mark pass by inspired me to redouble my efforts and actually get serious about Japanese study... which only lasted a day and a half, as I didn't get any study done yesterday, apart from the morning. Hopefully I'll be able to get things back on track tomorrow. Of course, even in the best of times, mental energy is in short supply, which is why my usual strategy is to race to the point where I can watch shows in the TL, which doesn't take any energy. But sadly with Japanese, that doesn't work so well.
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:08 pm

Well I managed to pull myself away from arguing with people on the internet for long enough to do some study last night. I read my third article on NHK News Easy. I tried ichimoe like Ryanheise suggested, but I didn't like it as much, so I switched back to Jisho.

It's a bit ironic that I'm focused on practicing reading when my entire goal is to develop listening comprehension skills, but my reasoning is that if I can't understand something when it's written out and I have the time to ponder every character, there's no way I could possibly understand it when it's spoken.
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devilyoudont
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby devilyoudont » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:45 pm

Just to clarify, ichi.moe is only to split a sentence into words, it's not a replacement for a dictionary.
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:48 pm

Well, my Lingodeer subscription finally ran out this morning. Despite completing Japanese I two weeks ago, I only managed to get through the first eight lessons of Japanese II, partly because they're a lot harder, and partly because I was taking my time to try to understand them better.

I think one of the sentences from the final lesson sums up why Japanese is hard in one sentence:

Image

You really don't appreciate just how much of an advantage having the sentence patterns already ingrained in your mind when studying european languages is until it's missing. I remember when I first started studying Japanese, I mentioned that it puts the verbs at the end of the sentence, to which my dad commented "Just like German!" leaving me dumbfounded for a moment before explaining that no, it is not like German at all. But I think this sentence is the perfect demonstration of that.

English: This is the air conditioner I bought at the department store last week
German: This is the air conditioner that I last week at the department store bought have
Japanese: This last week department store at bought air conditioner is

By Japanese standards, Romance and Germanic grammar is basically the same as English.


Also, I think Lingodeer was practically trolling me with the example sentences at the end. The last lesson contained the sentence "I want to buy a vacuum cleaner that is easy to use." where use is the word marked with the subject particle! Likewise, in the sentence "Alpacas are animals with big eyes and soft fur," eyes and fur are marked with the subject particle. I thought that maybe this was some other usage of が that I didn't know about, but at least according to Lingodeer, it actually was the subject particle in these sentences!

Oh well, Lingodeer is over now. Time to start experimenting with other forms of study.
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby ロータス » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:16 pm

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dampingwire
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby dampingwire » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:29 pm

golyplot wrote:The last lesson contained the sentence "I want to buy a vacuum cleaner that is easy to use." where use is the word marked with the subject particle! Likewise, in the sentence "Alpacas are animals with big eyes and soft fur," eyes and fur are marked with the subject particle. I thought that maybe this was some other usage of が that I didn't know about, but at least according to Lingodeer, it actually was the subject particle in these sentences!


I'm only guessing at what the original sentences might have been but they probably were of the form:

Code: Select all

modifying-clause nounを rest-of-sentence


where

Code: Select all

modifying-clause noun
is used as a noun phrase.

An example I can see in KZM N3: 子どもたちが話している賑やかな声

The whole thing is a noun phrase meaning something like "the lively voices with which the children spoke".

So I suspect that the first sentence was "[[use が easy] vacuum cleaner] like to buy" or some such arrangement.

The second one sounds like it me be the pattern あの人は手足が長い。[That person has long arms and legs.] where you might render it in your head as "legs and arns: long".
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新完全マスター N2聴解 : 94 / 103新完全マスター N2読解 : 99 / 177
新完全マスター N2文法 : 197 / 197TY Comp. German : 0 / 389


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