Learning Japanese From Zero

[kraemder]

I'm going to subscribe to your blog since it seems you're pretty active and I love Japanese. I am a slow learner and seem to learn by not giving up so I can relate to any frustrating experience you have although it has been many years since I was a beginner. N5 indicates you have made enough progress in your Japanese studies that you deserve a certificate so of course it will take time and effort to get there. I think it took me about a year to be N5 level although I didn't take a test for it.

[golyplot]

A year? I was under the impression that it typically took 3 or 4 months if you studied hard. I guess that makes me feel better about it.

Anyway, today was pretty successful as far as Japanese study went. I read 4 articles on Watanoc, which is approximately 4 more than usual. I'm definitely getting faster at reading, though I still have to look up many of the words and only sometimes understand the grammar. To be fair the articles are on different topics with little vocab overlap and have lots of proper names, but grammar is definitely a challenge. I suppose that is just a matter of time and patience as well.

I also did a bunch of Anki sessions. It turns out that if you review the new words repeatedly in a matter of hours instead of maybe once a day, they do start sinking in. On the other hand, I feel like I'm memorizing the example sentences more than the actual words. Anki still feels like a very difficult way to learn things.

[Nandemonai]

A year? I was under the impression that it typically took 3 or 4 months if you studied hard. I guess that makes me feel better about it.

This depends a lot on the person. People say that it's possible, and I believe it is, but I don't see it happening all that often. For me it took 4 non-intensive years to get to n4 level.

I've been reading your updates for the past couple weeks and I must say I'm really impressed with your progress. Looking forward to more updates!

[kelvin921019]

A year? I was under the impression that it typically took 3 or 4 months if you studied hard. I guess that makes me feel better about it.

Anyway, today was pretty successful as far as Japanese study went. I read 4 articles on Watanoc, which is approximately 4 more than usual. I'm definitely getting faster at reading, though I still have to look up many of the words and only sometimes understand the grammar. To be fair the articles are on different topics with little vocab overlap and have lots of proper names, but grammar is definitely a challenge. I suppose that is just a matter of time and patience as well.

I also did a bunch of Anki sessions. It turns out that if you review the new words repeatedly in a matter of hours instead of maybe once a day, they do start sinking in. On the other hand, I feel like I'm memorizing the example sentences more than the actual words. Anki still feels like a very difficult way to learn things.

It depends on how you study.

I can't speak for those who start from a genuine zero in Japanese. Some of my peers who are Chinese (so Kanji is less of a problem, but in any event N5 uses a lot of kana) and who have came into contact with Japanese culture for many years (like listening to song and watching anime) can reach N5 level within 1 month or so of active studies starting from Kanas. I think together with 2 to 3 extra months of intensive immersion and kanji practice, I reckon 3 to 4 months from a complete zero is possible. However, his approach is very exam-oriented.

One of my friend attained N5 by first memorizing grammar rules item by item, then go through N5 vocabulary list (like words likely appear in exam) in memrise, then do tonnes of JLPT exam drills. There are books which are quite exam oriented which contains things like popular questions / items, question analysis and exam techniques (for example, focusing on grammar items which are more likely to appear in exam).

But I refuse to follow this path because by doing so one might obtain a certificate, but not really acquiring the language at all.

[kraemder]

A year? I was under the impression that it typically took 3 or 4 months if you studied hard. I guess that makes me feel better about it.

Yeah about a year. I think that's actually very normal for westerners with no exposure to Asian languages and have never been to Japan. People try hard to learn languages and of course want to impress people they talk about their abilities and so they have a tendency to shorten the amount of time they've actually put into the language.

Getting your brain to think backwards and reading a difficult foreign script without spaces is hard for most people. The one and only ray of light where you probably feel ahead of the curve is if you study RTK Remembering the Kanji and can boast being able to recognize or even write several hundred or possibly over 1000 kanji or whatever. But that's not Japanese yet. Just English meanings to the Kanji. And while Chinese learners maybe don't know the Japanese readings either, a lot of the Chinese readings are pretty similar. And they can just process kanji way way faster than you too. They will absorb all that kanji vocabulary much more quickly just like an English speaker studying Spanish. It's very depressing to watch

For me, getting into a good class with a good teacher was the key that got me started down the road to success studying Japanese. I don't know where you can find that however. Just a nice native Japanese teacher probably isn't going to do it. You need someone to really push you.

[golyplot]

For me, getting into a good class with a good teacher was the key that got me started down the road to success studying Japanese. I don't know where you can find that however. Just a nice native Japanese teacher probably isn't going to do it. You need someone to really push you.

Well now I definitely want to pass the N3 in December after 11 months of self-study just to prove you wrong. I'm not sure if I'll be able to manage it in time, but it doesn't hurt to shoot for the stars.

[golyplot]

My progress through Watanoc just brought me to this article, which was a big confidence boost. I was really pleased to discover that I could recognize every word in the first sentence. In fact, there were only a couple words in the entire article which I had to look up, notably キャラクター, じつは, and いくつ. That being said, it still wasn't easy to read, and I misinterpreted quite a few of the sentences. Grammar is still a challenge, despite the fact that the article didn't actually use any grammar points I'm not familiar with. It's just hard to understand the usage intuitively.

In other news, today on WK, someone completed a level 60 speedrun, using no scripts and with no prior knowledge of Japanese. It was disappointing, but also a bit of a relief. I of course have been speedrunning WK myself, and while a few people have managed to do it faster than me before, I thought I'd be the first to do it without scripts (or prior knowledge of Japanese). But now someone else has done everything I've dreamed of, except better and faster. Oh well. On the bright side, the fact that there's less potential glory waiting at the other end means less pressure as well. Though aiming for internet bragging rights is a bit petty to begin with when you think about it.

Also, I finished watching Carmen Sandiego in Japanese (no subs) tonight. I guess now I'll watch Hilda in Japanese to continue listening practice.

[elka]

My progress through Watanoc just brought me to this article, which was a big confidence boost. I was really pleased to discover that I could recognize every word in the first sentence. In fact, there were only a couple words in the entire article which I had to look up, notably キャラクター, じつは, and いくつ. That being said, it still wasn't easy to read, and I misinterpreted quite a few of the sentences. Grammar is still a challenge, despite the fact that the article didn't actually use any grammar points I'm not familiar with. It's just hard to understand the usage intuitively.

In other news, today on WK, someone completed a level 60 speedrun, using no scripts and with no prior knowledge of Japanese. It was disappointing, but also a bit of a relief. I of course have been speedrunning WK myself, and while a few people have managed to do it faster than me before, I thought I'd be the first to do it without scripts (or prior knowledge of Japanese). But now someone else has done everything I've dreamed of, except better and faster. Oh well. On the bright side, the fact that there's less potential glory waiting at the other end means less pressure as well. Though aiming for internet bragging rights is a bit petty to begin with when you think about it.

Also, I finished watching Carmen Sandiego in Japanese (no subs) tonight. I guess now I'll watch Hilda in Japanese to continue listening practice.

Wow, nice! What level are you on Wanikani?

[kraemder]

Well now I definitely want to pass the N3 in December after 11 months of self-study just to prove you wrong. I'm not sure if I'll be able to manage it in time, but it doesn't hurt to shoot for the stars.

At least I inspired you? I might not be a good teacher I think I do think it’s possible. I’ve met people who have learned faster than me.

[dampingwire]

Yeah about a year. I think that's actually very normal for westerners with no exposure to Asian languages and have never been to Japan.

That's me. One year to N5, another six month to N4 and another year to N3. I'm sure that I'd've scraped through N2 this July, but that would would have been about 7-1/2 years total, so I'll not bother listing that one

Looking back they all look easy now, but they certainly didn't then ... I can only hope to have the same feelings for N2 and N1 some day!