Learning Japanese From Zero

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3505
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:14 pm
Location: Koude kikkerland
Languages: English (N), fr, nl, de, eo, Sranantongo,
Maintaining: es, swahili.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
x 9384

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby Le Baron » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:28 pm

What she says in that bottom video reminds me of a comment I made some months ago in a thread that was discussing English learning podcasts (but also by extension French podcasts and practically any language). Those introduction and connection type phrases routinely being quickly skipped over while the person supposedly speaking at a measured pace lingers on words with which you aren't even struggling.

At the language cafe I go to a girl there always complains that French learning podcasts do this. Yet when I listened to the bits she played I was hearing it all in context and couldn't see the exact point. Then she was using the skip button on her iPad to replay things like 'il y avait que...' or 'en fonction de...' Considering that the latter, in a native conversation, can sound pretty much like 'f'sho' duuuuh..' in the way French people do that lingering pause a lot after such common collocations, it's no wonder people struggle.

Even aside from what she says in the video, even context in the rest of the sentence doesn't always lead to clarity. Maybe that's how it is because I've heard hundreds, maybe thousands, of English sentences where I can't make something out even after playing it dozens of times. So with a foreign sound system, especially further away like Japanese, when this strikes you end up in that loop where only looking it up solves the puzzle. It may well be the very biggest hurdle in listening.
2 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:23 am

Tonight while listening to 4989 American Life, I noticed she said "seiri" a lot, which I knew meant "period", but it didn't make any sense in context, since she was talking about cleaning. It turns out it can also mean sorting/organization. Homophones are so frustrating sometimes.
3 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:31 pm

Yesterday while listening to Utaco, I was surprised to see that it sounded like she was using "yatsu" to refer to things a lot, since I learned that it meant "guy" or "person". For example, I think she said "nomiyatsu" when talking about sweet chilled coffees at Starbucks to mean "that sort of drink". I looked it up and according to Jisho, it can mean either "guy" or "thing".
1 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:04 pm

Since I'm on vacation this week and out hiking, I've done minimal Japanese practice other than listening to podcasts a lot. However, this morning, I briefly read Akiko ch28 (hard) and encountered a new kanji - 悶々.
2 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:20 pm

心肺蘇生法も、前もってクラスを取って学んでおいた。

Another new kanji from SR: 蘇 as in 心肺蘇生法.

-----

マディーちゃんの隣に座って、溜まっていた宿題を終わらせたところで、ちょうどホストファミリーが帰ってきた

I found this sentence interesting due to the use of the word 溜まる in Day 29 Part 1, because I had been previously introduced to a similar word (actually tameru) in Day 24:

シャワーと言えば、日本だとお湯をためて毎晩お風呂に浸かってゆっくりできたけど、ホストファミリー宅では、子供たち以外は、みんなシャワーだ。

In Day 24, it was explained that this was used to refer to filling a tub, so I was surprised to see (almost) the same word show up in Day 29 Part 1 referring to homework. I guess this shows how the meaning is a lot more general than I thought.

Also, this makes 溜 the second new kanji from SR. I didn't count it back on Day 24 because they wrote it in kana, but this time, they wrote it with the kanji.


I decided to go through the past log entries and make a list of all the new kanji in SR so far that weren't covered by Wanikani:
揃垢廻凧悶蘇溜

New kanji are coming up surprisingly often. That's seven new kanji in 31 chapters. Additionally, there were two kanji that showed up which I had seen on Wanikani before, but with different readings that WK doesn't cover - 浜/hin and 重/kasa.
1 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:08 am

すると、「映画の中でも、こういう言葉をたくさん聞くと思う

Yet another use of demo, and a very sneaky one at that! In this case, it appears that it is actually not even the word "demo" at all, but just the location particle + mo stuck together. How on earth do people figure this stuff out?
0 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:15 am

あっという間だった

I thought that 間 was read aida when by itself, but here it is ma for some reason! How on earth are people supposed to guess stuff like this?

「明子さ~ん、英語学校で頑張らないと、UWに入っても、初めからアカデミックのクラス、取れませんよ」とを刺されていた。
Also, another new kanji: 釘
1 x

User avatar
Sumisu
Orange Belt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:57 am
Location: USA
Languages: English (N) Japanese (B1?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 0c0a4beb42
x 332

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby Sumisu » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:35 am

golyplot wrote:あっという間だった

I thought that 間 was read aida when by itself, but here it is ma for some reason! How on earth are people supposed to guess stuff like this?

「明子さ~ん、英語学校で頑張らないと、UWに入っても、初めからアカデミックのクラス、取れませんよ」とを刺されていた。
Also, another new kanji: 釘


I too would've guess this was aida. I try to create Anki cards when this type of thing happens, but I'm too lazy to create as many cards as I would need to. I guess we have to remember that we'll never know all of the proper readings. I'm curious how often native speakers use an incorrect reading; I'm sure it must happen from time to time, but my guess is that the mistakes us foreigners make are probably much more glaring and involve relatively common words, so it'll sound worse.
1 x

bolaobo
Orange Belt
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:48 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Languages: English (N), Mandarin Chinese, German, French
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19845
x 1089

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby bolaobo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:41 pm

Sumisu wrote:
golyplot wrote:あっという間だった

I thought that 間 was read aida when by itself, but here it is ma for some reason! How on earth are people supposed to guess stuff like this?
.


I only knew that it was ma in this set phrase: 間に合う which means "in time for" or "will do for the time being". That's apparently an N4 phrase so it must be pretty common but outside of set phrases, aida seems like the default.

I think that aida is used when it's expressing the space between two things or to mean "during", while ma expresses a general space.
1 x
Perfectionnement Arabe: 11 / 70 New Arabic Grammar: 30 / 51
Le Grec Ancien: 15 / 101
Hindi ohne Mühe: 44 / 54
Le Persan: 85 / 86
Le Turc: 19 / 71
Tobira: 3 / 15

kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
x 1228

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby kelvin921019 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:54 am

golyplot wrote:あっという間だった

I thought that 間 was read aida when by itself, but here it is ma for some reason! How on earth are people supposed to guess stuff like this?

I think this article explains the difference well
https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/16107/difference-between-%E9%96%93-%E3%81%82%E3%81%84%E3%81%A0-and-%E9%96%93-%E3%81%BE/16109
//To summarize, aida means mostly "between", while ma means "space", its way of partitioning, and "period of time".//

Of course, the simplest way is to remember the set phrase "あっという間" (within a very short period), this can be understood literally "あっ/という/間" = the space when you're saying "あっ"
4 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DaveAgain, Radioclare and 3 guests