Learning Japanese From Zero

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:40 am

Normally, when I watch something with English subtitles, I barely pay attention to the Japanese, but I do occasionally catch bits. For example, last night while watching Bofuri, there was an exchange that went something like "Wow, Maple is a monster now. But it's ok as long as she's our friend." But I noticed that the Japanese used the word mikata (ally), rather than say, tomodachi, the usual word for friend. Of course, the English word friend can also mean "ally", but it was still interesting to see those little differences.

Tonight, I noticed another instance of mikata get subtitled as "comrade".


In honor of all the talk about okazu in this chapter of Yotsubato, I relistened to Gohan wa okazu, the first time I'd heard that word. It's not the top song from K-On! (IMO, U&I and Kagayake Girls are the best), but it is certainly still catchy. Plus it wins points for the uniqueness of the lyrics.

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:43 am

I started reading the free online textbook Irodori, but it was disappointing. It seemed like just a series of simple dialogs with no explanation.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:51 pm

This morning, Noriko talked about "paper drivers". I found it ironic when she said that it was a waseieigo that English speakers wouldn't understand, since I'm an English speaker and understood it perfectly. Although that exact phrase is not in common usage in English, "paper x" meaning something that only exists on paper is a common and productive formation (e.g. paper profits) so everyone would know what you mean anyway.

I was going to put "paper tiger" on that list as well, but I just looked it up and apparently it's a borrowing from Chinese. I had no idea!

Noriko also translated it as "kami dake no driver", so I guess now I know how to say "paper driver" in Japanese. :D
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:14 am

Last night, I finished watching Bofuri, so it's time to start watching anime in Japanese without subtitles again. Tonight, I tried watching One Punch Man. I'd heard really good things about it, but I didn't like it much. In fact, I didn't even finish the first episode. Then I watched the first episode of Toradora, which seems passably entertaining at least.

I noticed that Taiga says "anta" instead of "anata" a lot. I'd seen mention of that before elsewhere, but I still have a feeling it's one of those things that occurs much more in anime than reality. I was also surprised when Ryuuji answered the phone with a simple "hai" rather than the usual "moshi moshi".
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kelvin921019
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby kelvin921019 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:42 am

golyplot wrote:Last night, I finished watching Bofuri, so it's time to start watching anime in Japanese without subtitles again. Tonight, I tried watching One Punch Man. I'd heard really good things about it, but I didn't like it much. In fact, I didn't even finish the first episode. Then I watched the first episode of Toradora, which seems passably entertaining at least.

I noticed that Taiga says "anta" instead of "anata" a lot. I'd seen mention of that before elsewhere, but I still have a feeling it's one of those things that occurs much more in anime than reality. I was also surprised when Ryuuji answered the phone with a simple "hai" rather than the usual "moshi moshi".

If you like stupidly funny stuff you can try Grand Blue (ぐらんぶる), which is so funny that I ended up having cramp in stomach for laughing too much.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat May 01, 2021 4:36 am

This morning, I noticed Noriko say what sounded like "saiyaku" several times in one episode. Jisho says it means "disaster", but that doesn't make any sense in context, when she was using it to e.g. describe the atmosphere inside a pachinko parlor. If only I'd noted down the episode number so I could check the transcript later.

Tonight, I watched Toradora ep2 and Terrace House: Boys and Girls in the City ep1. They're ok, but I'm still not sure if I'll continue them.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Sat May 01, 2021 8:47 am

golyplot wrote:This morning, I noticed Noriko say what sounded like "saiyaku" several times in one episode. Jisho says it means "disaster", but that doesn't make any sense in context, when she was using it to e.g. describe the atmosphere inside a pachinko parlor. If only I'd noted down the episode number so I could check the transcript later.

I'm guessing it was 最悪 (さいあく), which can sound a bit like さいやく when spoken with emphasis.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Sun May 02, 2021 5:31 am

vonPeterhof wrote:I'm guessing it was 最悪 (さいあく), which can sound a bit like さいやく when spoken with emphasis.


Thanks!

Anyway, I've been attending a Japanese practice chat every Friday evening since March. I almost never try to actually say anything in Japanese (especially when multiple fluent speakers show up and just spend the whole time talking to each other), but I do think I'm slowly improving. Last night, I made several comments in Japanese, and only a couple of them stopped the conversation cold when noone could understand me. At the very least, it's a good way of identifying gaps in my knowledge.


I also recently started going through Hayato's Cities: Skylines playlist from the very beginning. This morning I got up to the fourth video.

At one point, he says "救急車こねーから自分でいくわとw" (as helpfully subtitled on screen at 9:18). Does anyone know what the こねー and わと parts mean?



Since my log has just reached page 60, I guess I should also mention that I forgot the meaning of 六 when trying to decipher the title of that Youtube video. That was pretty embarassing. Last night, I was completely stumped when someone talked about how 12:00 am is different in English and Japanese because I'd forgotten the meaning of "gogo" and "gozen". Oh well.

I also looked at the comments, using Google Translate to convert them to English, since reading Japanese is a huge pain. On one video, I noticed a bunch of comments saying "California reaper grass." Initially, I assumed it was just a translation error, but I checked, and the Japanese said the same thing. Obviously, "grass" is slang for "www", which in turn means "lol", but I have no idea what the "California reaper" part means. It looks like it's just the name of a hot pepper. Perhaps, it's saying something like the laughter is spicy?


I noticed Noriko saying something like "ryokudan" a lot. At first, I just assumed it was a variation on recording (rokuon). However, this morning when it came up again, I suddenly realized that she was actually saying lockdown, as in COVID. I guess that shows how hard katakana English can be to recognize, even when it is spoken and thus the unfamiliar "alphabet" is not an issue.


Speaking of katakana English, I also watched Toradora ep3 tonight. Near the beginning, I noticed Minori say "donmai" (Don't mind). I would have never recognized it if I hadn't learned that phrase from Yotsubato first.

Is it me, or does Minori's "hm-hmmmm" sound at the restaurant sound just like the sound Sally often made in Bofuri? Although now that I think about it, I think Sally's was more like "hm-hm-hmmmm" instead.

Also, when Minori is seen from the side in the background, I get a strong sense of deja vu. I keep feeling like I've seen a character that looks exactly like that before, but I can't figure out where. Shame I was so distracted by that that I didn't pay much attention to the rest of the episode.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Sun May 02, 2021 7:13 am

golyplot wrote:At one point, he says "救急車こねーから自分でいくわとw" (as helpfully subtitled on screen at 9:18). Does anyone know what the こねー and わと parts mean?

こねー = 来ない. The last bit might become more obvious if you add quotation marks: 「救急車こねーから自分でいくわ」と(…)w. The と at the end usually implies the omission of something like 思う or 言った.
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alaart
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby alaart » Sun May 02, 2021 9:13 am

Oh, nice idea to watch lets plays in Japanese. I might give it a go too, as I have some games I'd like to watch (currently I am watching one in English though).

It's nice he has the subtitle:

ちなみに、帰てきている救急車はいるのかな?- By the way, I wonder if there are ambulances that are coming back?
帰て来てる、帰てきてるっていうか。- They are coming back, they are coming back - how should I say it.
市民たちが、車で、「救急車来ねーから、自分で行くわ」と 笑 - The citizens are going by car and say (と言います): "The ambulances are not coming, I go MYSELF" haha.

So, the ない->ね is a casual form: It is used for young-male speech to sound cool, in some dialects like Kansai, and in Anime.

the と is a particle that precedes other constructions, often relative clauses like: I think that (と思う), he said that, (と言いました), I am called David (Polite Japanese) ダビットと申します. These things, as opposed to English, are put at the end of the sentences in Japanese.

Because Japanese often abbreviates things that are clear from context, the thing after と is often just left unsaid. There are many variations of と, and it was very tricky to learn, I remember it took me some time. Above there is also っていうか , って there is also a casual form of と - so っていうか means: と言うか

Finally わ. わ is an emotional particle that gets added at the end of some things.

There is the "female わ", that only women can use and it adds emphasize:
In this song the singer sings in the lyrics: ここにいるわ、側にいるわ. For example, there are a lot of songs with female singers that have a lot of わ、so if you translate songs you might come across it often. I remember as a first year student I said 行くわよ for lets go - and got laughed at for sounding women-ish.

Then there is the わ in Kansai dialect, I am not too familiar with Kansai dialect, so I had to quickly look this up again - but it is one of the most common particles in Kansai-ben. Kansaiben.com
says that this わ is a mild form of saying よ、so the above sentence should be something like "自分で行くよ" but maybe a bit lighter in character than よ:

Kansai-specific わ is a sentence final particle that lightly emphasizes the sentence and is used by both males and females.


Since he is quoting, it could also mean that the speaker had some women in mind while speaking, but I don't think so because he said 来ね~ which is male speech.

From the speech the speaker doesn't seem to be from Kansai, so he just speaks like that to sound cool, or imitating someone that sounds cool with his quote of a imigainary citizen.

I hope this helped, these small things are among the most tricky things to learn in Japanese and take a long time. They are also very hard to translate and are often left untranslated, I am not sure if I could translate them accurately. Basically they are ways to expression emotions.
Last edited by alaart on Tue May 04, 2021 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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