Learning Japanese From Zero

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Thu May 25, 2023 5:05 am

お土産屋さんとかも、入ってますか。
はい、和菓子屋さんや、おせんべい屋さんなど、色々ございます。

I learned "senbei" on Wanikani, but I always thought it was just "rice crackers to feed deer in Nara". I didn't realize it was a human food too, so I was surprised to see a reference to them being sold in airports here.

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Last night, I watched the Japanese dub of “Bring Honor To Us All” from Mulan, and was surprised to see 蓮 (hasu/Sacred Lotus) come up. It’s a word I unlocked on Wanikani last week, but it’s not the kind of thing I ever expected to see in the wild.

P.S. I’m also annoyed that there’s no way to hide the player controls on Youtube in order to take a clean screenshot while the video is paused. The controls disappear after a while while the video is playing, but they never go away as long as it is paused, like if you’re trying to take a screenshot of a specific moment.

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Also, there was a word with two unfamiliar kanji later on. It's relatively infrequent that I see unknown kanji like this nowadays.

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In last night's Ouran Host Club episode, the club called Haruhi a "daikon", according to the subtitles, which then helpfully explained that this means a wooden actress.

Also a bit of trivia. In the show, Haruhi is said to be a terrible singer, and she has to lip sync instead. However, like most Japanese voice actresses, her voice actress actually can sing, and the song she is lip syncing to in the episode is in fact her own voice actress singing in reality.

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Fri May 26, 2023 5:32 am

I read a bit about theme parks on Wikipedia today and discovered that in terms of 2019 attendance, Tokyo Disneyland, Tokyo DisneySea, and Universal Studios Japan were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th most visited parks in the world (Disney World in Florida and Disneyland in California are first and second.)

Obviously, I'd seen many references to these three parks while researching trips to Japan, but I had no idea they were so significant even on an international scale. For example, I would have never guessed that USJ is more popular than any of the Universal Studios parks in the US, or that Tokyo Disneyland is more significant than the one in Paris. (I also learned from Wikipedia today that Disneyland Paris actually really struggled financially for the first few years and has had to be bailed out by Disney several times. TIL)

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Wanikani: New level up!

According to WKStats, I leveled up in only 12 days, the first time I leveled up in below average time and the first time it didn’t go off the top of the chart (and also exactly half my last level up at 24 days). This reduced my average from 19 days and 11 hours to 19 days and 7 hours. I think my next level up will probably take longer than 12 days, but maybe not that much longer unless I end up leaving WK alone during vacation.

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Thu May 25 2023:
Time spent: 42m L11
Reviews completed: 222
Reviews remaining: 115
Reviews in next week: 549 (+434)
Reviews in next month: 1061 (+512)
Level: 52

Current item counts:
Apprentice: 163
Guru: 384
Master: 355
Enlightened: 944
Burned: 6135

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Ouran Host Club:

In episode 21, the school celebrates Halloween, which is odd, since I didn't think Halloween was really a thing in Japan. Perhaps it isn't and the school is just being unusual, since it has to be explained to Haruhi at the start as well. Though of course if it were *really* obscure, the anime writers wouldn't even think to feature it in the first place.

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Also, the same scene had them talk several times about "camaraderie" (shinboku). I paused it and looked up "shinboku" on Jisho and discovered that this is actually a word on Wanikani level 59, so I guess I'll be seeing it in a few months there.

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Fri May 26, 2023 2:34 pm

Youtube recommended this video to me, and it turned out to be pretty interesting. It's a compilation of five four-minute shorts featuring a comic of a girl traveling to different parts of Japan and learning about the local attractions, foods, stereotypes, slang, etc. Trying to keep up with the dialog in real time was overwhelming, but I was happy that I actually managed to understand a surprising amount of it. I feel like this is something where I would not have been able to understand much in the past. Anyway, I'd definitely recommend checking it out.



In the second Nagoya segment, they celebrate Halloween, so I guess Halloween actually is a notable occurrence in Japan (though I'm guessing it's still nowhere near like it is in the US). It's funny how my question last night coincidentally got answered so quickly.

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Also, when Rin goes to Hokkaido and is told about how they use double paned windows the keep out the cold, she says "ならでは" (distinctive of), which caught my ear because it is a word that I've been "studying" on JPDB recently but I could never understand or remember it and just marked it as failed night after night. Hopefully seeing it in the wild means that I can actually remember it now.

Also of note: Rin calls Hokkaido "Shura no kuni" after being told how cold it gets. I looked it up and it seems to be a religious reference, and the phrase is used in Fist of the North Star, so I assume it is supposed to be a reference to something, but I still don't get it. Maybe she's basically calling it "hell"?

Also at the end of the Hokkaido video, Rin learns about the slang "shitakke", which I remember was also prominently featured in the anime Erased.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sun May 28, 2023 5:04 am

I encountered a new idiom this morning, 一昨日来やがれ, which actually means "don't you ever come here again!", something you would never guess based on the individual word parts. It's really fortunate that it happened to come up when I searched Jisho for "ototoi" to confirm that I had correctly remembered/recognized the first part, because I would have never understood it otherwise.

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An interesting phrasing here, that coffee shops are "common in South Korea to the extent that it seems like one is right next to the other". Besides being an interesting sentence construction, I wonder if that is really true about coffee shops being common as well.

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Back in Ouran Host Club ep 18, I encountered the "Moe" kanji spelling for the first time:

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So I was surprised in episode 23 when they wrote Moe with a -e kana, when it was just spelled with kanji before:

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I checked Jisho, and it looks like this normally means "sprouting". It seems that it developed a slang meaning of "crush" or "infatuation", which I guess then transformed into the slang meaning of "moe".

Also notable is that this line includes "nameru", which apparently means "to look down on". Coincidentally, it's a word I've been studying on JPDB (but could never remember), but it was just listed as "to lick" anyway. It's odd how words can have such different alternate meanings sometimes, though I'm sure it made sense somehow when it arose (and it's not like the same thing isn't true of English - consider the alternate slang meaning of "to suck".)

By the way, it's pretty annoying when you see an unusual word in writing but can't look it up due to not knowing the reading. I tried the Google Translate phone app here, but it didn't help at all here. I wonder what the kanji before -san is here that got translated as "godfather's wife".

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Anyway, I've already uploaded probably too many images here, but other notable bits. I noticed the new character in ep22 say "chikushou" (damn it) repeatedly, a word I had recently learned on Wanikani. Also, "寸法" was shown onscreen while they talked about "plans". I looked it up and it turns out it is on WK and in fact I burned it on WK nearly a year ago, but Wanikani only lists it as "measurement". I would say that I didn't realize it had the alternate meaning of "plans", but of course I actually didn't remember/recognize it at all in the first place.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Mon May 29, 2023 5:40 pm

I read up to ch11 in Mukosei Seijyo using Google Translate. I gave up on ChatGPT and went back to using Google Translate because ChatGPT is just so slow and frustrating to use, even though the results are better.

Anyway, I randomly browsed the web novels list on JPDB today and noticed that the title of "【完結】" (aka Furareta) had been updated. I also discovered that Mukosei Seijyo was now listed as 44k words, when it was under 25k before. It looks like on May 25th, JPDB updated all their old web novel decks, adding chapters that had been released since JPDB was founded and removing web novels that are no longer accessible.

Earlier this month, I'd done a search of the top 50 web novels with <25k words on JPDB to rank them in order of average words per chapter. However, I was using the word count from JPDB, but found the actual chapter count on syosetu.com itself.

This led to incorrect results in some cases. Presumably, Mukosei Seijyo was still ongoing when JPDB first started, and so they created the deck when it was only half done, hence why it was listed as under 25k words. Meanwhile, I got the actual chapter count, so the word count for half the story was divided by the chapter count of the whole story, leading to it seeming to have much shorter chapters than it actually does.

Therefore, I decided to redo the search today, now that the data has been updated. Fortunately, I posted my code from last time, so it was easy to redo. I also filtered the stories to under 45k words rather than under 25k so that Mukosei Seijyo would still be included, as I was curious how it would rank now that we have the correct numbers.

Anyway, here are the new top 50. Stories I've already read are listed in bold.

[*]悪役令嬢が私をいじめるのには訳があるそうです。: 23722 words, 148 chapters, average per chapter: 160.28378378378378
[*]私は物語から逃げます: 42471 words, 120 chapters, average per chapter: 353.925
[*]平民だからと婚約破棄された聖女は、実は公爵家の人間でした。復縁を迫られましたが、お断りします。: 33330 words, 84 chapters, average per chapter: 396.7857142857143
[*]【書籍化】前世、弟子に殺された魔女ですが、呪われた弟子に会いに行きます【コミカライズ】: 27362 words, 61 chapters, average per chapter: 448.55737704918033
[*]猫を被ってる妹に悪役令嬢を押し付けられたお陰で人生180度変わりました。: 15481 words, 33 chapters, average per chapter: 469.1212121212121
[*]【電子書籍3巻10/7】死にたくないので、全力で媚びたら溺愛されました!【コミカライズも発売中】: 41136 words, 87 chapters, average per chapter: 472.82758620689657
[*]オタクな俺がポンコツ美少女JKを助けたら、お互いの家を行き来するような仲になりました: 39390 words, 73 chapters, average per chapter: 539.5890410958904
[*]超絶金持ちの幼馴染と付き合った俺は最強なのでとりあえず悪を粛清したいと思います: 12655 words, 23 chapters, average per chapter: 550.2173913043479
[*]ふわふわ日記: 13175 words, 22 chapters, average per chapter: 598.8636363636364
[*]魅了から解放された私に待っていたのは……: 33313 words, 47 chapters, average per chapter: 708.7872340425532
[*]婚約破棄されて従妹に乗り換えられましたが、納得いかないので彼の新しい婚約をぶち壊そうと思います: 15694 words, 22 chapters, average per chapter: 713.3636363636364
[*]『妹の結婚の邪魔になる』と家族に殺されかけた妖精の愛し子の令嬢は、森の奥で引きこもり魔術師と出会いました。: 29301 words, 40 chapters, average per chapter: 732.525
[*]魔法使いの名付け親: 42727 words, 57 chapters, average per chapter: 749.5964912280701
[*]推しの幼少期が見たくて、悪役令嬢を選んでしまった(番外編追加): 17547 words, 23 chapters, average per chapter: 762.9130434782609
[*]草むしりでもしてろ!と草をぶちまけられた草取り少年、葉っぱカッターを覚える ~お花の国にご贔屓にされた僕は、花壇でのびのびと無双する~: 32244 words, 42 chapters, average per chapter: 767.7142857142857
[*]聖女三姉妹 ~本物は一人、偽物二人は出て行け? じゃあ三人で出て行きますね~: 38490 words, 50 chapters, average per chapter: 769.8
[*]【コミカライズ】絆の聖女は信じたい ~無個性の聖女は辺境の街から成り上がる~: 44049 words, 56 chapters, average per chapter: 786.5892857142857
[*]『こっぴどくフラれてみた』チャンネルのYouTuber、純真無垢な美少女後輩からベタ惚れされてしまう: 24402 words, 31 chapters, average per chapter: 787.1612903225806
[*]召喚聖女に嫌われた召喚娘: 29153 words, 36 chapters, average per chapter: 809.8055555555555
[*]私を好きすぎる勇者様を利用して、今世こそ長生きするつもりだったのに(多分、また失敗した): 30055 words, 37 chapters, average per chapter: 812.2972972972973
[*]【IF】もう私に構わないでくださいな~お飾り王妃ですが、隣国の公爵様に救われ溺愛されています~【完結】: 18064 words, 22 chapters, average per chapter: 821.0909090909091
[*]【完結】高校最後の夏、好きだった幼馴染が妊娠した。: 26736 words, 32 chapters, average per chapter: 835.5
[*]ドSの幼馴染に「彼女ができた」と嘘を吐いてみた 〜幼馴染は落ちぶれ、俺はモテモテになった〜: 35517 words, 42 chapters, average per chapter: 845.6428571428571
[*]【完結】: 16327 words, 19 chapters, average per chapter: 859.3157894736842
[*]なんでもしまえる収納魔法 ~勇者召喚されたけど、魔法で逃げ出して自由に生きようと思います~: 38246 words, 42 chapters, average per chapter: 910.6190476190476
[*]想いは、ただ一つ: 16789 words, 18 chapters, average per chapter: 932.7222222222222
[*]恋人だった幼馴染に裏切られましたが、親友だった幼馴染が癒やしてくれたので立ち直って幸せになれそうです。〜あと男と女の友情は成立しないというのは本当でしょうか?: 20595 words, 22 chapters, average per chapter: 936.1363636363636
[*]【WEB版】変装令嬢オリアーヌの反撃〜婚約破棄に応じない相手を決心させる方法〜: 34095 words, 36 chapters, average per chapter: 947.0833333333334
[*]Sランクの癖に弱すぎる仲間の御守りをさせられていたEランクの支援職実は全てがチート過ぎる規格外の最強の冒険者でした~追放したのに戻ってこいと言われても、もう遅い。もう美少女達とパーティ組んでますから~: 28502 words, 30 chapters, average per chapter: 950.0666666666667
[*]婚約破棄を狙って記憶喪失のフリをしたら、素っ気ない態度だった婚約者が「記憶を失う前の君は、俺にベタ惚れだった」という、とんでもない嘘をつき始めた: 36296 words, 38 chapters, average per chapter: 955.1578947368421
[*]【完結】四天王最弱の俺が、次期魔王? 〜最弱なので追放される…と思いきや、魔王や他の四天王からめちゃくちゃ慕われてた〜: 42195 words, 44 chapters, average per chapter: 958.9772727272727
[*]押して駄目だったので、引いてみることにしたのですが: 27792 words, 27 chapters, average per chapter: 1029.3333333333333
[*]《書籍化》国を追放された【聖女】は、隣国で天才【錬金術師】として暮らしていくようです: 22019 words, 21 chapters, average per chapter: 1048.5238095238096
[*]バイト帰りに拾ったのは家出してきた学校一の美少女でした: 36955 words, 35 chapters, average per chapter: 1055.857142857143
[*]無理矢理登録させられた恋人マッチングアプリでマッチしたのは、疎遠になっていた幼馴染みでなぜかそのまま付き合うことになったんだけど: 29803 words, 28 chapters, average per chapter: 1064.392857142857
[*]【web版】執着王子と脳筋侯爵、どっちも強引すぎるのですが!: 16142 words, 15 chapters, average per chapter: 1076.1333333333334
[*]悪役令嬢と、婚約破棄と、その後の小さな恋の物語。: 19514 words, 18 chapters, average per chapter: 1084.111111111111
[*]嘘をついてごめんなさい: 15721 words, 14 chapters, average per chapter: 1122.9285714285713
[*]かつて聖女と呼ばれた魔女は、: 42961 words, 38 chapters, average per chapter: 1130.5526315789473
[*]婚約破棄された公爵令嬢は山で修行中の魔法使い(隣国王子)と出会い、魔物を食べ、婚約しました。: 21176 words, 18 chapters, average per chapter: 1176.4444444444443
[*]いつも通りの日常で、、君からすれば: 17849 words, 15 chapters, average per chapter: 1189.9333333333334
[*]悪魔のキスは復讐の味(旧なろう版)【番外編】: 35046 words, 29 chapters, average per chapter: 1208.4827586206898
[*]【書籍発売中】公爵家の養女になりましたが、ツンデレ義弟が認めてくれません: 13488 words, 11 chapters, average per chapter: 1226.1818181818182
[*]私のことが大好きな守護竜様は、どうやら私をあきらめたらしい: 15732 words, 12 chapters, average per chapter: 1311
[*]美しい指: 15855 words, 12 chapters, average per chapter: 1321.25
[*]彼女をみつける日: 17663 words, 11 chapters, average per chapter: 1605.7272727272727
[*]公爵夫婦は両想い: 38146 words, 23 chapters, average per chapter: 1658.5217391304348
[*]好きな人に好きって言われても、俺は多分死んでいるからもう遅い: 14053 words, 8 chapters, average per chapter: 1756.625
[*]このくらいの復讐は許してくださいませ?: 43104 words, 24 chapters, average per chapter: 1796
[*]現代ファンタジー世界で最弱戦士は最強を目指すのである: 41366 words, 19 chapters, average per chapter: 2177.157894736842
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Tue May 30, 2023 3:27 pm

I started reading "猫を被ってる妹に悪役令嬢を押し付けられたお陰で人生180度変わりました。" (with the assistance of Google Translate as usual) since it seemed like the easiest one on the list I posted. I guess I'll call it "Jinsei 180" for short.


Anyway, I discovered that "chinamini" has a kanji form that I'd never seen before:

「お姉様、因みに断ったら、また窓を割ってお姉様のせいにしても良いんですよ?」

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This morning, I tried watching another Fermi Comic video on Youtube. Unfortunately, this one was hard to follow and a lot less interesting. It just consisted of an endless stream of impossible-to-follow walls of text as the girl lectures the boy on life lessons (and I mean that literally - she even writes down a summary of all the points on a whiteboard at the end).

It's terrible for learning Japanese, but I guess it's good if you're feeling confident about your Japanese comprehension and want to demoralize yourself again by watching something incomprehensible. Anyway, one point of note is that the word "sekentei" came up, which has a deceptive kanji reading. You would think that it would be "sekentai", but noope, that isn't confusing enough.

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AndyMeg
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby AndyMeg » Tue May 30, 2023 4:31 pm

golyplot wrote:By the way, it's pretty annoying when you see an unusual word in writing but can't look it up due to not knowing the reading. I tried the Google Translate phone app here, but it didn't help at all here. I wonder what the kanji before -san is here that got translated as "godfather's wife".

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You can find kanji you don't know the reading of by using any of these two methods:

1) Draw the character in Webs/Apps like Jisho.org or "Kanji Study".

In this case, I found 姐 in the "Kanji Study" app, but was not successful doing so in Jisho.org. The closest kanji I found in Jisho.org by handwriting was 妲.

I was curious about other dictionaries and decided to look for it in a Chinese dictionary (LINE Dict) and I was successful:



2) The other method is to look by radical.

With this method I was able to find it in Jisho.org.

I chose the "Radicals" option, then selected 女 and then I got many kanji options that included 女.

Then I just had to look for the other part: 且.

To make this method faster, it's helpful if you know how to divide kanjis by their stroke order and count the total strokes.

So I first looked for radicals with 3 strokes total to find 女. And then I looked for a kanji with a total of 8 strokes, and found 姐, among other kanji that also include the radical 女 and have 8 strokes.

Here's the result of my search in Jisho.org:




I also decided to look for info of 姐 in jpdb by copy-pasting the kanji there. (By the way, it is thanks to your log that I got to know about the existence of jpdb and I'm having a great time exploring it! :D )

According to the results of there, it seems this kanji is a very rare form (with a frequency of only 1%) meaning "older/elder sister". With 姉 being the most common alternative (with a frequency of 96%). Besides "older/elder sister", both the "Kanji Study" app and Jisho.org include the additional meaning of "maidservant" for 姐, but not for 姉.

According to jpdb, 姐さん may mean: older sister; elder sister; young lady; miss; ma'am. But the most frequent form of the word is 姉さん (with a frequency of 85%).
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Beyond The Story 10 Year Record of BTS Korean version: 36 / 522

golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:59 am

I read chapter 4 and 5 of Jinsei 180 today. The story uses a lot of rare kanji, and I've run into the kanji forms of several kana-only words that I didn't even know had kanji forms before.

Here's hazu:

 この辺りの近くは、確かブラウン家が統治している筈である。

And here's wagamama:

その子の我が儘で税金は高くなるわ、給金は減らされるわ、宝石なんかの金目の物は全部献上させられるわで困ったもんだよ」

Among other things, I also encountered the word gonge (権化), which has a really weird reading.

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I watched another Fermi Comics video tonight and was surprised to hear Rin say "umu" at one point. Kotaro from Kotaro Lives Alone said "umu" constantly, but I always assumed that this was just him using archaic samurai language due to being obsessed with a samurai TV show, so I'm confused about why umu is showing up here.

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:43 pm

Yesterday I encountered kanji furigana. WTF is up with that? I have no idea what it's even supposed to be indicating.

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Also last night, I watched some more song videos. I can't actually understand any of them at all (the use of flowery language probably doesn't help) and most of them don't have any subtitles, but a couple of them did, and I noticed some unusual kanji.

The first is 朧 (oboro/hazy). I've probably seen it before a some point, but not enough to actually remember it, so it still counts as a new kanji. This one was a bit weird though. You'd think that having the subtitles here including the reading would make it easy to look up, but a search for "oborotsuki" on Jisho didn't turn up any results!

Fortunately, I found it by just searching for "oboro". The weird part though is that Jisho actually does list 朧月, it's just that the reading is listed as oborodsuki. I wonder why the subtitles on this video don't include the rendaku.

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P.S. While looking at this again, I noticed that they're also using a completely bonkers "minamo" reading for 水面.

I also encountered 棘 , apparently an alternate kanji for toge/thorn, but I didn't screenshot that one.

Now this one was really weird. They have garasu/glass written in kanji! I've never seen that before. But Jisho does list "硝子: Rarely-used kanji form." Presumably, "glass" was imported to Japan all the way back in the Portuguese era, when they made up ateji for foreign words instead of using katakana like normal. Everybody just writes it in katakana now, except that there's an annoying large number of pretentious Japanese writers who decide to write everything using obscure kanji forms anyway.

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While idly browsing TvTropes last week, I came across mention of the manga ぼくらのへんたい, which has an interesting double meaning since apparently hentai can mean both "perversion" and "transformation". (The series is about a group of crossdressers, one of whom is transgender, so both meanings fit).

I also learned that there's a genre called 男の娘, which is a pun because it is read "otoko no ko" like 男の子, despite being written with 娘 instead.
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vonPeterhof
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1237
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby vonPeterhof » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:58 am

golyplot wrote:Yesterday I encountered kanji furigana. WTF is up with that? I have no idea what it's even supposed to be indicating.

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Like I said earlier, in these cases the furigana usually shows what the character says out loud while the main text is what they're thinking, although sometimes it's the other way round.

golyplot wrote:Now this one was really weird. They have garasu/glass written in kanji! I've never seen that before. But Jisho does list "硝子: Rarely-used kanji form." Presumably, "glass" was imported to Japan all the way back in the Portuguese era, when they made up ateji for foreign words instead of using katakana like normal.

Close, it was borrowed from Dutch, which uses the word "glas" for "glass". Incidentally this word only refers to "glass" as in the material, the word for the vessel was borrowed from English later and is spelled グラス. The difference isn't so much because of the source language as the time period of borrowing, since before the practice of using "u" as the default "dummy vowel" it was more common to "echo" the nearest vowel, usually the preceding one if there is one. Hence why "van Gogh" is ファン・ゴッホ and "Bach" is バッハ. This is also the principle behind the katakana spellings of Ainu words: pirka = ピㇼカ, horkew = ホㇿケゥ, etc.
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