Learning Japanese From Zero

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:19 pm

This morning, I tried watching a Youtube channel that @kelvin921019 recommended on his log.

I could only understand a little bit, but it was still pretty funny. I did frequently pause the video to try to look up words. I learned a new word - 踏切 (fumikiri), which uses a kanji reading I would have never guessed. I also learned 開かずの, which was difficult to look up. The best I could find on Jisho is that 開かずの might mean "forbidden". However it appears that 開かずの踏切 is actually a set phrase meaning a "railroad crossing that never opens up (due to having too many tracks, etc.)". It's pretty interesting that Japanese has a specific term for this phenomenon, since I've never heard of anything like that in English.

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:41 am

It's been ages since I touched Yotsubato, so time to tackle ch20!

お父さんじゃない
IT'S DAD, DUH...

I was puzzled since this seems like it means the opposite of what it should mean.

お父さんて
影うすいから
時々忘れちゃうね
DAD'S SO AVERAGE, I FORGET WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE SOMETIMES

This seems like it's literally saying something like "because his shadow is so thin". I guess it means "he doesn't make much of an impression". Also, I see "forget", I guess the "what he looks like" part comes from context?

お父さん
きのうあんなに
がんばったのにね子併たちは
AND AFTER ALL THE HARD WORK HE HAD
TO DO YESTERDAY
THESE NAUGHTY GIRLS

It seems like the Japanese is just "(these) kids". I guess the "naughty" part is also implied?
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:38 pm

In Violet Evergarden ep3, I found it a bit amusing when a character is yelling "Onichan!" and the subtitles say "Spencer!". I don't think her brother was even named in the Japanese dialog (though I may have just missed it). I wonder if the Japanese writers chose a name for her brother, or whether they had to make up a name for the English translation.


Youtsubato continued:~~

…こ…
こってるねぇ
...WOW. THIS IS INTENSE

肩たたき券
だけに
こってる
IN-TENSE! ALMOST AS TENSE AS DAD'S SHOULDERS!

Based on the translation, it seems like Fuuka made some sort of pun here, but my Japanese isn't good enough to get the joke. Can anyone explain this please?





花火大会ってのは
やるんじゃなくて
見るの

A FIREWORKS SHOW ISN'T SOMETHING YOU DO, IT'S SOMETHING YOU WATCH

IIRC, て is used to chain multiple verbs together, e.g. saying you're doing X and Y. So as far as I can tell, it means something like "(Don't do) and look". I found it very interesting that they were using a conjunction to express contrast, since you would never say something like that in English (as evidenced by the way the sentence structure is completely different in English)



前?
横でやった奴か?
BEFORE? YOU MEAN OUT IN THE STREET?

WK taught me that 横 means "side", which Jisho seems to confirm. I'm not sure how that turns into "out in the street". I guess it's supposed to mean something like "by the side of our house" here?

あれより全然
凄いぞ
YES, MUCH BETTER THAN THOSE

Here's another case where I was confused by zenzen seemingly having a positive meaning.


そーな!
はなびきれいもんな
YEAH!
'COS FIREWORKS ARE
PURDY!

Does anyone know why it was translated as "purdy" here?
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:01 pm

golyplot wrote:…こ…
こってるねぇ
...WOW. THIS IS INTENSE

肩たたき券
だけに
こってる
IN-TENSE! ALMOST AS TENSE AS DAD'S SHOULDERS!

Based on the translation, it seems like Fuuka made some sort of pun here, but my Japanese isn't good enough to get the joke. Can anyone explain this please?

Basically it was playing on two meanings of the verb 凝る/凝っている, to be stiff (when talking about muscles) and to be elaborate. だけに as used here is basically a pun-specific structure linking the setup to the punchline


golyplot wrote:前?
横でやった奴か?
BEFORE? YOU MEAN OUT IN THE STREET?

WK taught me that 横 means "side", which Jisho seems to confirm. I'm not sure how that turns into "out in the street". I guess it's supposed to mean something like "by the side of our house" here?

I think 横 here is referring to the house next door, since they were playing with those fireworks in front of the Ayases' house.

golyplot wrote:そーな!
はなびきれいもんな
YEAH!
'COS FIREWORKS ARE
PURDY!

Does anyone know why it was translated as "purdy" here?

Probably no deep reason for it, just trying make the phrase sound sufficiently colloquial and/or childlike.
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Sizen
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby Sizen » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:36 am

golyplot wrote:そーな!
はなびきれいもんな
YEAH!
'COS FIREWORKS ARE
PURDY!

Does anyone know why it was translated as "purdy" here?

Could be because of non-standard usage since you'd expect きれいだもん unless you were to parse きれい as an i-adjective.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:32 pm

In Violet Evergarden ep5, I noticed that Princess Charlotte always said watakushi instead of watashi. Presumably that's an old fashioned and more formal version of watashi? I don't think I've seen it before, but I guess I haven't watched anything where it would have come up before either. I guess maybe the royalty in The Dragon Prince or Canon Busters might have been expected to say stuff like that.

Yesterday, I finished my 11th time through Noriko and started a new podcast, Kevinin Sleepy Japanese.

Also, this morning, I (re)watched the song U+I from K-On! with subtitles. I noticed that in the last line, Yui uses the imperative form towards her feelings. (思いよ届け). It's funny because all the grammar guides say that the imperative form is rude and rarely used, but it seems to come up pretty often in practice! I guess they just don't want Japanese learners to use it and offend people.




And now for more Yotsuba!

Man, Jumbo really needs to stop using Yotsuba to ask Asagi out. It's kind of pathetic and has a high risk of backfiring (like in the waterpark chapter where she invited everyone but Asagi).


えっと私と風香お姉ちゃんと
あさぎお姉ちゃんのお父さんです
AHEM! THIS IS ME, FUUKA-ONEECHAN'S AND ASAGI-ONEECHAN'S FATHER HE'S OUR DAD

I found it interesting that Ena listed out her sisters when introducing her dad to Yotsuba. You'd think that it would go without saying. I also found it interesting that the translator included the "oneechan"s here, since they usually leave that stuff out. Sadly, the translator doesn't seem to understand how English possessive pronouns work.


あさぎはなー
よつばになー
はなびくれたからなーはなびたいかいをなー
みせてあげるの
ASAGI GIVED YOTSUBA FIREWORKS......SO YOTSUBA WILL SHOW ASAGI THE FIREWORKS SHOW!

The translator strangely decided to literally translate the Japanese custom of using names instead of pronouns, leading to ungrammatical English. I wonder if there was a different translator for this chapter than the previous ones, because they definitely don't seem to have a strong grasp of English.


... so Yotsuba ends up inviting Ena and Miura instead while accidentally making Jumbo think that Asagi is coming. That actually went better than expected. I expected her to just get distracted and forget to invite anyone in the first place. The moral of the story is that if you want someone to do something, you should actually tell them why. If you don't explain your true goals, then they probably won't fulfill them.

It's hard to feel sorry for Jumbo though, since the romance seems kind of creepy to begin with due to Jumbo looking older than Asagi. Also, she already has a girlfriend! I suppose at least Fuuka didn't come - that romance is even creepier.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:42 pm

golyplot wrote:In Violet Evergarden ep5, I noticed that Princess Charlotte always said watakushi instead of watashi. Presumably that's an old fashioned and more formal version of watashi? I don't think I've seen it before, but I guess I haven't watched anything where it would have come up before either. I guess maybe the royalty in The Dragon Prince or Canon Busters might have been expected to say stuff like that.

I wouldn't exactly call it "old fashioned" since it's very much normalized in the business world and other formal contexts. If anything I would expect fictional royalty to use some more exotic phrasing, but I guess it fits with the show's setting being inspired by post WW1 Europe instead of an era with heavier associations with fantasy and tales of chivalry.

golyplot wrote:Also, this morning, I (re)watched the song U+I from K-On! with subtitles. I noticed that in the last line, Yui uses the imperative form towards her feelings. (思いよ届け). It's funny because all the grammar guides say that the imperative form is rude and rarely used, but it seems to come up pretty often in practice! I guess they just don't want Japanese learners to use it and offend people.

I'd say the imperative is still used less commonly in Japanese than in most European languages - for example it's nowhere near as common in Japanese advertising slogans than in English ones (which probably explains why so many English advertising slogans by Japanese companies contain the word "let's"). But yeah, song lyrics are a bit of a world of their own when it comes to language usage: see also the near-universal pronunciation of 行く as ゆく instead of いく, the use of ぼく by female singers to refer to themselves as well as the use of きみ for addressing a person who is supposed to be close to the singer.

One thing I noticed about the use of the imperative only after I started working in Japanese is how normalized its use is in reported speech, when talking about things said by people from both inside and outside the organization. At first it was more than a little jarring to hear someone summarize a very polite and proper business letter from a counterpart as essentially "they said 'send us the documents until the end of the month or else'" :lol:
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:59 am

Today I finished Kevinin Sleepy Japanese and started listening to Momoko to Nihongo. As implied before, I greatly prefer the later. Tonight, I listened to the episode (among others) where Momoko explains the difference between onigaishimasu and kudasai. Apparently, the former is something that you would use in a restaurant or shop. I never realized that. I guess I'll have to look out for it. Though I'm pretty sure I've seen onigaishimasu in non-restaurant contexts before. But perhaps it is more formal.

I also noticed Kevin say "wakutashi" at one point which I found a bit interseting. Speaking of which, I watched ep8 and 9 of Violet Evergarden last night. Ep. 9 really felt like it was meant to be a season final, so it's really interesting that it's only episode 9.

Anyway, on to Yotsubato ch21:

I constantly forget that Miura is actually a girl, not a boy. But the beginning of this chapter definitely doesn't help matters. Not only does she have short hair, but she goes to the fireworks show in a sleeveless shirt and pants, while Yotsuba and Ena don kimonos.

よつば
もう一度聞く
あさぎさんは
花火大会に
WILL ASAGI-SAN BE GOING TO THE FIRE-WORKS?

It's interesting that the Japanese cuts off halfway with no -ka particle at the end. I guess the fact that it's a question would be indicated by tone of voice?

YOU CAN'T RELY ON KIDS!!
THEN DON'T RELY ON KIDS

... and Jumbo finally gets a clue. Something he should have learned several chapters ago, but better late than never, I guess.


男の子?
女の子

Apparently, even Jumbo can't tell whether Miura is a girl or a boy.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby vonPeterhof » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:23 am

golyplot wrote:よつば
もう一度聞く
あさぎさんは
花火大会に
WILL ASAGI-SAN BE GOING TO THE FIRE-WORKS?

It's interesting that the Japanese cuts off halfway with no -ka particle at the end. I guess the fact that it's a question would be indicated by tone of voice?

I'm pretty sure that if we were meant to interpret Jumbo's tone as questioning then it would be indicated by a question mark, like in the title of the dreadful TV Tokyo show YOUは何しに日本へ? (in fact sometimes you'll see question marks in written Japanese used to indicate a rising tone with no real question implied, although I can't think of any specific examples right now). I think here it's more like Jumbo letting Yotsuba finish his sentences for him, which would have probably been a bit harder to replicate in English sentence structure.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening: 2021 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:32 pm

これがいっぱい
集まると
雨が降るのさ

(Talking about cotton candy.) When I first read it, I was thinking about how "ame" can mean candy and didn't notice it was actually the kanji for "rain". I guess I'm relying too much on the furigana.

おなかいっぱい…
ねむたい…
YOTSUBA'S TUMMY IS FULL ...
YOTSUBA'S SLEEPY...
It's a bit weird that the translator started translating all the Japanese name references and pronouns literally last chapter, but this really takes the cake. They had Yotsuba refer to herself by name in the English translation even though that doesn't happen in the Japanese. Wow.
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