Learning Japanese From Zero

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
AllSubNoDub
Orange Belt
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:44 pm
Languages: English (N)
Speaks: Spanish (B1+), German (B2 dormant)
Learns: Japanese (Kanji only)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17191
x 475

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby AllSubNoDub » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:32 pm

golyplot wrote:
AllSubNoDub wrote:Are you thinkin of おかしい?

1) “What? I put money in and pushed the button, but no juice came out. Okashii.”
In this case, “okashii” means “strange” or “unusual.”

2) “His stories are so funny “okashikute, okashikute”, I can’t stop laughing.”
In this case, “okashii” means “funny.”


Thanks! That must be it.


Haha, no problem. The long vowels throws me off sometimes too, especially coming from languages where there's lots of vowel reduction.
0 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3385

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:46 am

Ug, I can never get the long vowels right, even after years of study.

Just today, I ran into an episode of Noriko where she was talking about 元号 (gengou) and initially thought it was 言語 (gengo). You'd think that after listening to Japanese audio for three hours a day for a year, you'd get the hang of distinguishing the basic sounds, but it doesn't seem to happen. I guess I should count myself lucky that in Japanese, it's only the long vowels which trip up an English speaker (well, I also keep thinking that 伝える is read sutaeru for some reason). I've heard that Korean phonology is absolutely horrible for English speakers.
2 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3385

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:17 am

I thought I had encountered a new kanji in Satori Reader again (the 奮 in 孤軍奮闘), but it turns out that it is on Wanikani (lvl50). I guess that shows how little I remember of the high level kanji from when I raced through it last winter!

Also, I was planning to start watching the Liar Game anime, since I'd heard good things about it, only to discover that a) it's live action, not an anime, and b) I couldn't figure out where to watch it anyway. Oh well.
2 x

User avatar
AllSubNoDub
Orange Belt
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:44 pm
Languages: English (N)
Speaks: Spanish (B1+), German (B2 dormant)
Learns: Japanese (Kanji only)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17191
x 475

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby AllSubNoDub » Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:12 pm

golyplot wrote:I thought I had encountered a new kanji in Satori Reader again (the 奮 in 孤軍奮闘), but it turns out that it is on Wanikani (lvl50). I guess that shows how little I remember of the high level kanji from when I raced through it last winter!

Also, I was planning to start watching the Liar Game anime, since I'd heard good things about it, only to discover that a) it's live action, not an anime, and b) I couldn't figure out where to watch it anyway. Oh well.


It's available on Netflix if you have a Japanese IP (vpn).
0 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3385

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:29 am

Satori Reader time!

クラスメート達は、クラスが終わると、ショッピングに行ったり、映画を見に行ったり、レストランに行ったりしている

I was really puzzled by the grammar of this sentence. I thought that と meant "natural consequence" and shouldn't be used for stuff which requires intention, like deciding what to do after school. Can anyone explain the grammar here?


私はあまり貯金がないから、そんなことができない

Speaking of confusing words, I can never keep the readings of 預金 and 貯金 straight. They have almost the same meaning and reading and the kanji are very similar as well. Arrgh!!

P.S. Seeing them side by side like this is the first time I ever noticed that one of them has a "geoduck" and one has a plain shellfish. I always thought they were using the same radical and just tried to remember that shellfish on the left means "savings" and on the right means "deposit" (or was it the other way around?).


慎重にお金を使わないといけない

Wanikani taught me that 慎重 means "discreet", which is why I was puzzled when I saw it in the title of "The Hero Is Overpowered but Overly Cautious" (この勇者が俺TUEEEくせに慎重すぎる). It looks like this is another example where it means "careful" rather than "discreet".


I finally finished watching Hayato's Cities: Skylines series tongiht. Also, I watched the first episode of the anime Great Pretender. There was one moment that left me utterly puzzled.

The characters spend the first half of the episode mostly speaking broken English, and then suddenly the screen freezes and it says "Everything from this point will be translated to English." Which of course made no sense because they were already speaking English!

Eventually, I realized that the original Japanese text on screen actually says everything will be translated to Japanese (because of course it's an anime and they don't want the actors to have to mangle English all the time) and the subtitles inexplicably mistranslated it. I've noticed that subtitles and dubs will often replace any reference to the language with the language of the sub/dub, no matter how little sense it makes (e.g. the Spanish dub of Luke Cage featuring black gangsters beating up an Asian shopkeeper in NYC and complaining about his poor Spanish skills). However, this is the first time that something like that has left me utterly confused rather than just amused.


Image
1 x

crush
Blue Belt
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:35 pm
Languages: EN (N), ES, ZH
Maintain: EUS, YUE, JP, HAW
Study: TGL, SV
On Hold: RU
x 953

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby crush » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:11 pm

golyplot wrote:クラスメート達は、クラスが終わると、ショッピングに行ったり、映画を見に行ったり、レストランに行ったりしている

I was really puzzled by the grammar of this sentence. I thought that と meant "natural consequence" and shouldn't be used for stuff which requires intention, like deciding what to do after school. Can anyone explain the grammar here?

クラスが終わると = when class finishes/is over. It's that "if/when" と. EDIT: This isn't about the deciding part, it's like stating as a general rule "Whenever class finishes, they do these things."
1 x

kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
x 1228

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby kelvin921019 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:44 am

golyplot wrote:私はあまり貯金がないから、そんなことができない

Speaking of confusing words, I can never keep the readings of 預金 and 貯金 straight. They have almost the same meaning and reading and the kanji are very similar as well. Arrgh!!

預金 = to deposit in the bank
貯金 = to save money (not necessary at a bank), usually mean doing some kind of savings (to set aside an amount of money from your income and keep it somewhere)

You can try to differentiate the kanji by associating them with the verb:
you entrust money (i.e. 預ける) to the bank
you save up money (i.e. 貯まる)

golyplot wrote:慎重にお金を使わないといけない

Wanikani taught me that 慎重 means "discreet", which is why I was puzzled when I saw it in the title of "The Hero Is Overpowered but Overly Cautious" (この勇者が俺TUEEEくせに慎重すぎる). It looks like this is another example where it means "careful" rather than "discreet".


慎重 to me means "prudent, careful" in a general sense, so it can mean discreet when it's about someone's words / conduct.
3 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3385

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:47 am

This morning, I came across a Reddit post of someone's One Year Japanese Learning Report. What I found really interesting is that they wished they had spent more time training listening and doing immersion earlier, because I had the exact opposite experience. I went heavy on listening practice from the start and wished I had spent more time on grammar study, etc. I guess the grass is always greener, but Japanese is just hard.


On Satori Reader, I encountered not a new kanji, but a new kanji reading today (海浜公園, as WK only teaches "hama" for 浜 not "hin").

Also, I finished listening to Noriko yet again and started 4989 American Life yet again today.
3 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3385

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby golyplot » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:58 pm

As another example of mixing up words just because they sound similar, on Wanikani this morning, I put "expression" for the meaning of 方言 (hougen) due to mixing it up with 表現 (hyougen). The funny part is that they aren't actually the same sound, and they're written completely differently. To a Japanese person, "hou" and "hyou" are probably completely different sounds and they would be confused at how anyone could ever mix them up, much like English speakers would find the confusion of beach/bitch, sit/shit, etc. strange.

I also put "kiyoi" for 青い due to mistaking it for 清い. I was embarrassed afterwards to mix up such a common and simple word.

Then there are the mistakes that I just keep making over and over. For example, I once again put "unga" for the reading of 氷河 (hyouga) this morning. I don't know how many times I've made that mistake in Wanikani by now, but it must be considerable.

On the bright side, I finally guru'd the wheat radical today. This is the first radical, and only the second radical or kanj (after 苺) to be guru'd that was added as a lesson after I started my current WK challenge back in May. Under normal circumstances, it would only take 3.5 days, but with 5k+ reviews in the pile, it takes a really long time for any given item to randomly come up for review the four times required to go from Apprentice to Guru, even if you get it right every time it does come up.
3 x

User avatar
AllSubNoDub
Orange Belt
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:44 pm
Languages: English (N)
Speaks: Spanish (B1+), German (B2 dormant)
Learns: Japanese (Kanji only)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17191
x 475

Re: Learning Japanese from zero by listening

Postby AllSubNoDub » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:16 pm

golyplot wrote:As another example of mixing up words just because they sound similar, on Wanikani this morning, I put "expression" for the meaning of 方言 (hougen) due to mixing it up with 表現 (hyougen). The funny part is that they aren't actually the same sound, and they're written completely differently. To a Japanese person, "hou" and "hyou" are probably completely different sounds and they would be confused at how anyone could ever mix them up, much like English speakers would find the confusion of beach/bitch, sit/shit, etc. strange.


I wouldn't feel bad about this. It sounds like you just need minimal pairs training. I can't link to any good sources yet since I'm not speaking, but a quick search should turn up something. Most FSI/DLI style audiolingual courses have some minimal pairs training. Maybe just train it for a few minutes every day to see if you see any improvement. Fluent Forever has minimal pairs training as part of their pronunciation training, but that program might be way more in depth than you want.
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests