Learning Japanese From Zero

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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:55 am

Movie time

Tonight, I "bought" and rewatched the Ace Attorney movie, this time without subtitles. It was sometimes difficult to understand, but it was pretty cool to see so much of the vocab, names, and phrases that I'd seen in Kiyo's let's play of the games recently. I was particularly proud to recognize the word "muhai" (undefeated), which I'd only learned this morning after seeing it in Kiyo's Rise From the Ashes video and looking it up.

I remember being really frustrated at the end when I watched the movie the first time, because there's a post-credits scene which isn't subtitled and I had no idea what they were saying or what it was about. This time around, I was able to understand a little bit of it, but I couldn't hear some of the lines because the credits song continued playing over the scene and drowned out the witness's voice.

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One thing I found really bizarre about the movie is that they changed the time of Lotta Hart's first photograph from 11:50 to 11:30. The movie made much more drastic changes than that, but all the other changes serve an obvious purpose of shortening the cases or making the story more dramatic. However, the photograph time change serves absolutely no purpose. In both the games and the movie, the only relevance of the time is to prove that there was a gunshot before midnight, and so having it happen at 11:30 vs 11:50 has absolutely no plot significance. So why on earth would they change this?

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Speaking of changes, there seems to be a plothole with the movie's version of the DL6 incident. In the games, everyone is trapped in an elevator for hours, explaining why they all pass out after the first gunshot. However, the movie changes the location to the evidence room, but everyone still conveniently passes out after the first gunshot for absolutely no reason.

One other strange thing about the movie is that most the trial audience is wearing funny outfits for some reason, such as hats and even blue and pink wigs. It's very strange looking. Also, this notable does not happen in the flashback to Karma's trial. In the flashback, everyone is wearing formal black suits, not a cosplay outfit in sight.

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Also during/after the big post yesterday, I read a bit about AA on the fan wiki and came across an interesting note about the names of The Bellboy and Penny Nichols.

In the Japanese videos, the bellboy seemed to be referred to as "Boid", and it came up so much that I assumed that was his name, especially since Kiyo kept talking about him as if that were his name. So I was rather surprised to see the wiki say that his name is never revealed at all, and he's only known as the bellboy. What's up with that?

Edit: I went back and checked, and his dialog is just labeled "Boy" in Japanese, so presumably that's just his title and he's never named there either. And I think I misheard - it sounds like Kiyo refers to him as "Boy" as well.

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As for Penny Nichols, the name on top of the dialog box just says "staff" when she talks, to the point where for a while, I thought her Japanese name might actually be "Staff", but it isn't. The fan wiki however says that in the (English) game, there's a goof where her dialogue box says "Penny" before she even introduces herself, the opposite case.

Here she is in her very last appearance in Japanese (in the post case 4 credits epilogue sequence), still listed as "staff":

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And here's her first appearance in the English games, listed as "Penny" before she actually reveals her name. I wonder why they changed it.

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Also, I got up to the part where they talk to Gumshoe about Jake Marshall, and apparently, he isn't American after all. Phoenix assumes he must be American, but Gumshoes says he's actually Japanese, which would explain why he has a Japanese name. (In the English version, Gumshoe says that he's from "West LA" at this point).
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:20 am

Wanikani: 1008 Days Later

As previously mentioned, back in 2020, I speedran Wanikani in under a year and then forgot about it. However, I soon realized that I'd forgotten/never really learned a lot of it, and so in May 2021, I upgraded to lifetime subscription and started Wanikani for the second time. Specifically, I unburned everything and decided to review it all again. I initially assumed that it would only take a few weeks, but of course, that was absurdly overoptimistic. Rather, I've been slowly grinding away at the WK review pile every day for nearly four years now. Up until yesterday, that is.

Last week, I finally hit a review count of 0 for the first time, but that was only temporary, since obviously more reviews come due all the time. I decided to keep going until my review count stayed at 0 all day, which in practice is equivalent to saying that I'd keep going until I happened to not miss any Apprentice reviews one morning.

As it turned out, this happened a lot sooner than I expected .Yesterday in fact. Which means that as of today, I've stopped Wanikani for good. Today was the first day in nearly four years that I didn't do any Wanikani, apart from the days I skipped in the past due to being busy or on vacation. But unlike then, the challenge is over for good this time, so there's nothing to skip in the first place.

It's still a bit odd to have something that was a big part of my life for nearly four years end like that. But to be fair, it kind of ended with a whimper rather than a bang, since my review count had been trending toward zero for a long time.

Anyway, here are the final stats and graphs for my epic 1008 day Wanikani challenge:

Total time spent on reviews/lessons: 330h23m
Total reviews: 90675*

*Note: The exact review count is unknown because a poorly timed API breakage (well sneaky removal) means I don’t know the review count for one day (April 26, 2023). Most likely, I did around 40 reviews that day, which would bring the total up to a little over 90700.

Ironically, the total reviews for this nearly-four year challenge was still quite a bit less than the number of reviews I did in just one year when I went through Wanikani the first time. Presumably, the issue is that back then I was just bruteforcing my way through in order to level up nearly as fast as possible, without actually learning most of the higher level material. And additionally, the second time through I had also been learning Japanese for longer and had a higher level of baseline knowledge.

SRS levels:
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Review speed:
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Review count:
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Shinkanzen Master
One of my coworkers had a textbook she didn't need any more and gave it to me, so that was really nice. Specifically, she gave me a Shinkanzen Master N1 Reading practice book. I haven't actually tried it yet, but hopefully it will be helpful later on, and it certainly can't hurt.

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Spy x Family
By pure coincidence, I also finished watching Spy x Family tonight. It took me by surprise, because unlike previous seasons and unlike other shows, they didn't do anything especially dramatic to end the season. In fact, they actually did the opposite. There's a dramatic multiple-episode story arc with a luxury cruise where Yor fights off hordes of hitmen, but it's in the middle of the season and then after that, they do a couple of low-tension slice of life episodes. It's very unusual.

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New kanji

Last night, I tried watching a few more Japanese songs on Youtube like old times, and came across two new kanji:

深淵 (abyss)
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綴る (spelling)
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The first one technically isn't new because I encountered it last October in "Chigogafuchi Abyss", the beach on the far side of Enoshima. However, this is the first time I've encountered it in an actual word, rather than a one-off name.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:06 am

Bofuri

Since I finished Spy x Family, I started watching Bofuri season 2. I'd already watched season 1 several years ago, back when Crunchyroll was free.

In the first episode, one character picks up a new sword which is apparently named "Yukari". However, the name is written 紫 instead for some reason. They don't even have furigana to show the weird reading either. I thought "yukari" might be an obscure alternate reading of 紫, but that doesn't seem to be the case. According to Jisho, yukari means "connection" and is written 縁 (but "usually written using kana alone").

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On the screen explaining her new ability, I noticed there was an extra bit of text not translated by the subtitles that explains that the debuff lasts for 10 minutes. I wonder why the subtitlers didn't bother to include that part.

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Not direction Japanese related, but at the end of ep2 when Risa takes a bath, she has her phone in a plastic bag (presumably to protect it from splashes) hanging from a peg on the wall so she can talk to Kaede while taking a bath. I've never seen anything like that before. I wonder how common it is.

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Phoenix Wright

I wasn't able to find the moment again to screenshot it, but I encountered the word hakujyou (白状 - confession) in Kiyo's LP today, which I found interesting since I had previously learned the word "hakujyou" as "white cane" (白杖). So many homophones.

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Also in Harry Potter, I encountered the "eagle" kanji (鷲), which I assume to be new to me.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby vonPeterhof » Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:22 am

golyplot wrote:I thought "yukari" might be an obscure alternate reading of 紫, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It technically is one, specifically a 名乗り reading (a reading only used in names). Many dictionaries don't include those since their utility is pretty limited.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Mon Feb 19, 2024 1:06 am

Bofuri

It's really interesting to see how Mii speaks differently in different situations in the anime. When she's alone with Maple, she talks like an anime girl, but whenever other characters show up, she puts on a gruff act and says "umu" a lot.

Also, in ep3, Maple fights a monster which steals most of her skills, and it shows her skill menu with most of the skills greyed out. Interestingly, only the active skills are subtitled, and the locked skills are not. The one on the bottom right looks to have a new kanji.

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Phoenix Wright

Damon Gant is apparently named Kaiji Ganto in Japanese, making him the third character I've seen to have an English name that sounds similar to the Japanese name (the first two being Mayoi/Maya and Karuma/Karma).

I also noticed two interesting Japanese culture bits while watching the videos today. In the first, Angel Starr asks Phoenix what he knows about blood types, and Phoenix says there's A, B, AB, and O, and then lists a stereotype about A blood types (that they're highly strung), only to be told off by the judge that that's just fortune telling.

I was curious how they translated this in the English version, since obviously the Japanese blood type superstition isn't really a thing in the US. In the English version, they just had Phoenix make a non sequitur comment about not being able to tell that the murder was committed "in cold blood" instead.

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The second Japanese-culture specific thing is that Ema Skye's luminol bottle has "1-3" and her name written on the bottom, causing Phoenix to ask if she brings it to school. I was curious how they'd handle this in the English version, since obviously American schools don't use the "class 1-3" format.

I assumed they'd just replace it with a reference to American schools of some sort, but they didn't. In the English version, the bottle only has her name on it, and Phoenix instead asks if she brings it "everywhere". It's really interesting to see all these little changes.


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Lastly, I encountered two interesting-sounding words near the end which I looked up, sutegoma (sacrificial pawn) and netsozou (forgery). They're written in kana in the game text, but the second is interesting because the kanji spelling is 捏造, which uses an unfamiliar kanji.

I didn't recognize 捏, but Jisho said it meant "knead", which rang a bell, and I thought I might have seen it before. Turns out I did see it once before. Interestingly, it didn't even make it into my compilation post. It looks like I accidentally missed the last three kanji from the Nov 22 post when making my compilation post, so the true number of unknown kanji should have been more like 83 or 84, rather than 81.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:26 am

Harry Potter

As previously mentioned, I checked out the English version of Harry Potter as well, and so when I read Harry Potter, I've just been slowly reading a couple pages in Japanese and then reading the corresponding passage in English afterwards. Looking at the English version has revealed how much I'm still missing, although it also means I can go back and recognize more of what I didn't understand the first time.

The weird part though is that I noticed once part (Dean Thomas's reaction after Marcus Flint fowls Angelina in the first Quidditch game) where the translation diverges from the original. So far, the Japanese edition has pretty much just been a literal translation of the English, so it was very surprising to see. Not only did it change the meaning of the dialog, but it even changed the number and order of dialog lines. That goes well beyond "loose translation" and straight into "making shit up". In particular, in the Japanese version, Ron says that players can't get expelled in Quidditch, even though there's nothing like that in the original English.

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Other than that, I encountered two new kanji, 樅 - momi (evergreen tree) and 柊 - hiiragi (holly).

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Phoenix Wright

In the Japanese version, Mike Meekins constantly says "本官" and I started to think he was referring to himself. I looked it up and sure enough, 本官 is yet another first person pronoun I've never heard of before.

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Bofuri

At one point, Sally says "okan" (chills). I looked it up, and it turns out to be spelled 悪寒 of all things, a fairly unusual reading. You'd think that the first "o" would be the honorific. I guess I technically have seen that "o" reading before in 嫌悪感, but I always treated that as just a weird exception, and it's certainly not a common reading. Incidentally, 嫌悪感 contains a different "okan". Even if you knew the first half, you might expect it to be written 悪感 instead. I've never seen the "kan" reading for 寒 before.

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In tonight's episode, there's one point where Iz looks at a bulletin board and it shows lots of messages which aren't subtitled at all. I didn't bother trying to read them all, but I did notice what looked like a new kanji in one of them (see the arrow). Unfortunately, since they aren't read out, there's no easy way to look up what it might be. Does anyone recognize this kanji?

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Incidentally, the first three pets are named Haka (a white snake), Tsukimi and Yukimi (matching black and white bears). The subtitles understandably don't try to translate the names and just write them as is, but that means that there's a cool bonus to knowing Japanese and actually being able to understand the names and what they're referring to. Well, two out of three ain't bad. I knew "yuki" meant "snow", but I'd never heard of "snow viewing" as a specific thing before. I'd heard of hanami and tsukimi, but not yukimi.

As for the pets in the second episode, they're named Sou, Fay, and Necro. I wasn't able to guess what "Sou" referring to, and the other two are English names, so no bonus there. (There's also the phoenix "Ignis", which is pretty obvious too).
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:43 am

Phoenix Wright

There were a lot more Japanese-specific things in Phoenix Wright that made me curious about the translation, so this will be a screenshot heavy post. Therefore, I'll defer everything non-Ace Attorney for another post.


25 letters or less

First off, Jake Marshall asks Phoenix to explain his thesis in "25 moji" or less. In the English translation, it is instead eight words or less.

Interestingly, this seems to be a rare case where the translation makes more sense than the original! In the Japanese version, Phoenix's response is exactly 25 characters, but only if you include the punctuation and if you count the kanji as single characters. And there's no reasonable way for someone listening to guess how many punctuation and kanji are being used and count to 25. Meanwhile, in the English version, it's just eight words, which is unambiguous and easy to count. It's really weird to have the English version make more sense than the original Japanese like this.

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Nanananananana

Phoenix Wright also had a line similar to the "wagamamamamama" joke from Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective, where when reading out Gant's id (7777777), the Judge accidentally says an extra "na" (i.e. 15 nas). In the English version, they just have him say "seven" eight times, which is close enough but doesn't work quite as well.

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Holidays

In the Japanese version, there's a line about Obon and Shougatsu. In the English version, they changed it to Thanksgiving and Christmas.

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OK

When complaining about how he has to endlessly make copies and brew tea, Gumshoe says that he is an "OK", by which he means an "office keiji", in analogy to the Japanese term "OL" for "office lady". In the English version, they changed it to "DJ" for "desk jockey".

Another notable difference is that in the Japanese version, he complains about having to make tea, whereas in the English version, they change this to coffee. Fetching coffee is the stereotypical office gruntwork for low-ranked employees in the US, but I never really thought about the fact that the equivalent might be making tea in Japan. Having tea in the office just seems so weird to me.

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Mujyun

Most interesting of all though is when Edgeworth explains the original design of the Kenji of the Year/King of Prosecutors award (a sword and shield), by telling the story behind the word 矛盾. I of course was already aware of that due to Wanikani explaining the etymology when I learned that word on WK back in 2020. However, it was interesting to see how they handled it in the English localization.

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For the English localization, they couldn't really get around this, so they just had Edgeworth say that it's based on an ancient Chinese tale that "everyone knows". But it's interesting because the context still gives a very different impression of the scene. In Japanese, this really is something that everyone should know, whereas in the English version, it comes off like exotic trivia out of left field, and thus Phoenix does not seem as stupid for not knowing it.

It's also interesting that Phoenix's response is slightly different. In the Japanese version, he simply says that he forgot the story, whereas in the English version, he claims to know it and asks Edgeworth to repeat it for Ema's sake.

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Also, in the Japanese version, the location is given as "礎" (So), whereas the English version names the location as "Chu". Presumably this is a Chinese vs Japanese name thing, but it was weird to see.

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Also, after Phoenix's objection, the Japanese version has a pun (with その証人 vs 礎の商人), which the English version did not attempt to translate. The English version just replaces it with a completely different line where Edgeworth sarcastically mocks Phoenix for claiming to already know the story earlier (which only happened in the English version).

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Letter of resignation

When Ema finds Edgeworth's letter of resignation, she attempts to read it but gets stuck on the very first word, forcing Edgeworth to read it for her. In the Japanese version, she says "ji-ji-ji..." (for jihyou). Presumably it was written in kanji and she just didn't know how to read the second kanji (辞表). In the English version, she instead says "r-r-r-r", making her look like a complete idiot who can't even read the word "resignation".

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Apparently, this is a common problem when translating Japanese games. I've read that there's a recurring gag in the later games where Pearl Fey is unable to read even very simple words. In the Japanese version, it makes sense because they're written in kanji and a young girl like Pearl would not be expected to know kanji yet, and thus would be unable to read even the most basic words. However, in the English version, it makes Pearl seem like an idiot.


In other news, apparently the Japanese name of Joe Darke is Jyou Aokage, making him the latest character to have a similar sounding name in Japanese and English, alongside Mayoi/Maya, Karuma/Karma, and Ganto/Gant.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:58 am

Harry Potter

Last Thursday morning, I got a reminder email from the library that my books were due back but had been autorenewed. It was a bit of a shock to realize that I'd already had the Harry Potter book out for three weeks and had still barely read a little over two chapters (out of eight total). Since Thursday, I've been making a big effort to read the book more, although progress has been slow. I finally finished chapter 3 last night after four days of trying to read more.

This evening, I decided to try to read an entire chapter (the fourth out of eight) in one evening. It took me almost 90 minutes, but I did manage it. Four more chapters to go.

I also encountered several words with weird readings I hadn't seen before - 催し, 脱兎, 紅

JPDB

Also last Thursday morning, I noticed that the review stats graph on JPDB was way too low, and that the numbers seemed to be essentially random garbage for the last few days. One of the things that I've long found frustrating about JPDB is that it doesn't provide any signs of tangible progress, unlike Wanikani, and so it's frustrating to have the stats graph also become completely useless as well. But what's especially frustrating is that it appears that the author of JPDB abandoned it last year and is no longer actively working on it, though there are hints he might return some day. It made me wonder why I'm even paying for it on Patreon if it's no longer being developed.


With that rant out of the way, a couple interesting reviews a few days ago on JPDB:

One morning, 鶏 came up for review and my brain immediately said dove/hato. However, I noticed that the left part of the kanji looked just like the "valley" kanji that I learned on WK a while back, and I remembered that "valley" is read "kei", and I also remembered from WK that "chicken" is read "kei" as well, and so I was able to correctly realize that 鶏 must be chicken. That was a pretty cool connection to make.

Also, one morning 立ち上がる came up for review immediately after 立ち上る. I initially thought it was bugged and somehow gave me the same word twice. It was a fortunate coincidence though, since those two are words that have plagued me forever on JPDB, in no small part due to the fact that I never realized they were even separate words in the first place, and so I would always remember the meaning one one when either came up for review and so would keep getting them wrong. Having them both come up one after the other made me check to see if it was a duplicate, and thus I discovered that all this time it has actually been a sneaky transitive/intransitive pair and that they are actually separate words.


Satori Reader

A new kanji:
そう。うどんやお麦のつゆが、「めんつゆ」として売られてるでしょ?
蕎 - buckwheat

Bofuri

In one episode, Maple suddenly appears in a dress rather than her usual armor halfway through a battle with absolutely no explanation. There's no comment on her outfit and in the next scene she's back to her regular outfit. I really wonder what that was about. It's not like you would accidentally draw an entire new outfit for a character in an anime, the way that you might accidentally use the wrong costume in live action or something. So it must have been intentional, but there is absolutely no significance to the story and no comments on it or anything. I wonder if it's a reference to something that happened in the books.

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In tonight's episode, they turn invisible at one point and I recognized the word "toumei" due to it coming up a bunch in Harry Potter a couple days ago when Harry gets the invisibility cloak.

Incidentally, I've been tempted to try reading the Bofuri web novel lately. But of course that is many times longer than anything I've tried to read before, and harder as well. More importantly, I already have my hands full with my extremely ambitious plan to read the whole Harry Potter series in Japanese this year (which I'm already starting to regret), so I haven't had time to try to read any new web novels at all since I finished Moumoku Tenshi.
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bolaobo
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby bolaobo » Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:22 pm

Also, in the Japanese version, the location is given as "礎" (So), whereas the English version names the location as "Chu". Presumably this is a Chinese vs Japanese name thing, but it was weird to see.


You are correct that it's a Japanese vs. Chinese thing. But this localization decision makes sense to me. The Chu state is more well-known by its Chinese name than its Japanese reading, which no one outside of Japan really knows.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:10 pm

Incidentally, I just realized that I misread the name. I assumed it was 礎, since it looks similar and is also read so, but looking more closely, it appears to actually be a new kanji I haven't seen before.
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