Learning Japanese From Zero

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vonPeterhof
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby vonPeterhof » Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:51 pm

golyplot wrote:Last night's episode of Spy x Family introduced a rival spy codenamed Nightfall (tobari). However, when I looked up "tobari" on Jisho, the only thing that came up was "curtain", and it was spelled 帳. However the show translates it as Nightfall and uses different kanji. What's up with that?

夜の帳 is an idiom for nightfall. In fact nowadays it's probably more common to hear 帳 used in that sense than in the literal sense of "curtain".
golyplot wrote:Also when Yor is being questioned by Fiona, she thinks to herself "I'm a housewife, I'm a housewife" and the Japanese sounded like she was saying "itozuma". I assumed the second part was a rendaku'd tsuma (wife), but either way, I wasn't able to find anything on Jisho no matter what I tried, even after trying every variation I could think of. Even searching for "housewife" didn't turn anything up.

Pretty sure it's 人妻.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:14 am

Yesterday, I finished listening to Yuuyuu's podcast for the fourth time and started listening to Noriko's podcast for the 26th time, and possibly for the final time. I feel like I kind of outgrew Noriko's podcast years ago. Also, I finally caught up on garyb's log last night.

I haven't done much Japanese lately, but I did "read" one more chapter of Moumoku Tenshi and encountered one new kanji, 拮 (be imminent) right in the title, "拮抗".

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Spy x Family

The tennis arc of Spy x Family reminds me a lot of the Boufbowl in Wakfu with all the absurd cheating and over the top antics. (To be fair, it's not quite as insane as the second Boufbowl arc in Wakfu, which ends in the entire field falling into a pool of lava, IIRC.)

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I noticed the word "furin" (adultery) here, a word I'd previously encountered on Wanikani. To be fair, I only noticed it due to the subtitles - I would not be able to recognize stuff like that otherwise.

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Tonight, I watched ep26, which appears to be the beginning of a new season. And so in typical fashion, it begins with a recap of the show's premise for any new viewers joining in. When announcing the true identities of the characters, the narration says "shoutai: ...".

I had to look up "shoutai", but it turns out to be the same word that I've fought on JPDB before. I learned it as "true character" through, and didn't realize it could be used for "secret identity".

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lichtrausch
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby lichtrausch » Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:53 am

golyplot wrote:I also found this line interesting, since it seems to be a phrase but I was unable to find it on Jisho. Apparently, "oru" can mean "to interrupt" in addition to the more usual meanings, and "kotsukotsu" means "unflaggingly" and from context it presumably means something like "don't interrupt people while they're talking", but I was disappointed that I didn't find an entry for the full "kotsu wo oru" phrase.
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It's "koshi wo oru".
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:40 am

lichtrausch wrote:It's "koshi wo oru".


Those darn look-alike kana pairs strike again!

---

In other news, I was once again up sleepless for hours tonight, and I decided to "read" another chapter to help pass the time. Amazingly, there were six new kanji in one chapter!


 このホテルのウリは充実したサービスと伝統的で荘厳な建物で、変なりはない。
捻 - twist

 香りのものが好きなアンジェは、ロビーにかれたお香が気に入ったらしい。
焚 - burn

「ミラドルト領のものも幾つか使って貰っているんだ。例えば、季節の果物とか高級な木材、あとは海の珊瑚とかね」
珊瑚 - coral

「そうだね。特にこういうお金持ちが使うところは高くてもきれいなものを欲しがるから、よくかるんだ」
儲 - profit

当のアンジェは俺に言われたことを反して色々と考えているみたいだけど。
芻 - ruminate
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:20 pm

I previously mentioned that I requested Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone vol2 from the library, only to discover that it was checked out and not due back until mid March. Fortunately, my hold came in a month and a half early yesterday, so I was able to check out the book. I haven't looked at it yet, but at least now I can start reading it again (shame I never seem to have any time). I also checked out the English version so I can compare things if necessary.

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しかし、あと5分ほどで家に着くというところで、車の目の前を何かが横切った。

Apparently, "me no mae" can be used for non-human objects as well and doesn't need to literally mean "before my eyes".

This sentence is also a good illustration of how easy it is to misread things by just looking at the content words and inferring from context without having a good understanding of grammar. I misinterpreted the sentence as saying "however, five minutes later Haruaki arrived in front of the house and saw something cross in front of the car". However, what it actually means is that something crossed in front of the car five minutes before he arrived home.

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I've been watching Kiyo's Let's Play of Phoenix Wright a lot the last couple days. I finished case 3 on Friday and started case 4 yesterday.

I learned that Lotta Hart's Japanese name is Natsumi Oosawagi. A lot of the Japanese name puns I don't understand at all, but this one I was able to understand for once. (At least the "oosawagi" part - not sure if Natsumi is a pun of some sort, but I suspect that the Japanese names often only use half the name for the pun).

I also learned that Lotta speaks Kansai-ben. I'm not good enough to notice things like that myself, but Kiyo said something about it, and I also noticed "Osaka" come up in her dialog.

The part I found most interesting though was the text on the signs at the lakeside. I even looked up an English version of the same scene for comparison:

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One thing I noticed that is really weird is that in the Japanese version, the text on the signs is clearly visible, while in the English version, it is all blurred out. I have no idea why that is. The blurred text looks suspiciously like Japanese, so I thought maybe it was just a lazy port where they blurred out the text instead of replacing it with English, but the shape and size of the text is completely different from the Japanese version I saw. Perhaps it was based on a different version of the game? But I can't imagine why they'd redo the art even in that case. AFAIK, the remakes just made everything HD but didn't really change anything else. And obviously the English version did go to the trouble of completely redoing the "Samurai Dogs" sign, as well as stuff like the Gourdy newspaper, so they can't have been that lazy. 不思議だな


The Japanese name of the "Samurai Dogs" appears to be "Tonosaman jyuu". I couldn't read the kana myself, but Kiyo commented for a while about how it is not "tonosaman jiru" this time around. Also, I think at one point Maya wonders whether it is "manjyuu", which would imply that the sign says "tonosamanjyuu". Although it's a bit odd since the kana don't look like "jyuu". Presumably it's just "ji + u" and they left the you-on out for space.


I also learned that the Japanese name of the Blue Badger mascot is "Taiho-kun", which sounds way more aggressive than the English name.

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Spy x Family

In the latest episode, Damien and friends go on a camping trip in the miles of wilderness that Eden College apparently somehow has on its grounds, despite being in a city. Presumably EC is at the edge of the city so that there's space for the park? But it had previously always been seemingly shown as buildings right in the middle of the city. Maybe they have multiple locations in the city and it's just the dorms that are in the outskirts? It just seems really weird either way.

Anyway, they catch fish and then roast them over a fire and eat the fish whole, right through all the scales and stuff. Ewww! Do people actually do that? I mean I'm sure that people used to do that back in ancient times, but as someone raised on prepared meats from the supermarket, it just seems disgusting.

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Later, they visit a lake which is reflecting all the stars from the sky, making it very beautiful. But then the scene was ruined when I started wondering how they were able to get such a pristine view of the night sky in the middle of a city. Where's all the light pollution?

The closest I've experienced to that was when I visited Two Harbors, Minnesota, and one time, on an unusually clear night we went down to the long pier/breakwater on the lake. IIRC, we could see a lot more stars than usual, and it was even dark enough to see Jupiter reflected on the lake water. Of course, this being Lake Superior, there were tons of waves - it's basically like the ocean, not some calm reflecting pool.

But of course even that is nowhere near the amount of stars shown in the anime. You'd think they were in the mountains of Peru or something. Then again, the artists of Spy x Family have never bothered to even draw the moon correctly, so it's kind of silly to expect them to draw anything else realistically either.


Incidentally, one thing that had long annoyed me about Crunchyroll compared to Netflix is that CR didn't have a "skip intro" button unlike Netflix, forcing me to manually skip past it at the beginning of every episode. Strangely, CR does have a skip intro button starting with ep26 of Spy x Family. I guess they just didn't bother to properly label the first season for some reason. There have been occasional times on Netflix where a show is missing the skip button, but it's more like 95% vs 5%. I wish CR would get its act together as far as UI stuff goes, although it's still way better than any sites were a decade ago, so I guess we're spoiled now.
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lichtrausch
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby lichtrausch » Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:31 pm

golyplot wrote:The Japanese name of the "Samurai Dogs" appears to be "Tonosaman jyuu". I couldn't read the kana myself, but Kiyo commented for a while about how it is not "tonosaman jiru" this time around. Also, I think at one point Maya wonders whether it is "manjyuu", which would imply that the sign says "tonosamanjyuu". Although it's a bit odd since the kana don't look like "jyuu". Presumably it's just "ji + u" and they left the you-on out for space.

まんじう is まんじゅう written using historical kana orthography (歴史的仮名遣い).
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:22 am

1001 Japanese Nights

Back in 2020, I speedran Wanikani in under a year and then forgot about it. However, I soon realized that I'd forgotten/never really learned a lot of it, and so in May 2021, I upgraded to lifetime subscription and started Wanikani for the second time. Specifically, I unburned everything and decided to review it all again. I initially assumed that it would only take a few weeks, but of course, that was absurdly overoptimistic. Rather, I've been slowly grinding away at the WK review pile every day for nearly four years now.

This morning, I finally hit a review count of 0. In a remarkable coincidence, this was exactly the 1001th day of my challenge. However, that wasn't even the biggest coincidence today.

For a while now, I kept thinking about how I’d take a screenshot of the 0 reviews left image when I finally hit 0. However in an even more extreme coincidence, they just so happened to change the UI of the lesson/review counts this morning, the very same morning that I finally hit 0. And it’s not like they change it all the time either. IIRC, this is the first time they’ve changed it since 2020. I’d been staring at those same images for nearly four years!

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For the time being, I'm going to continue Wanikani, because I decided yesterday to keep going until I have a review count of 0 for the whole day (i.e. no Apprentice 1 or 2 items come up for review again after I reviewed them in the morning). However, my review count tonight was only 1, so I assume I'll reach that target too in just a matter of days, possibly even tomorrow if I get lucky.

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俺の天使は盲目でひきこもり

I also finally finished Moumoku Tenshi today, by far the longest web novel I've read.

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I discovered three new kanji:

さっきまでとは打って変わって、自分から中身を俺にねるほど。
訊 - inquire

こてんと首を傾げる彼女は、無自覚に俺をっていると分かっているんだろうか。
煽 - fan

話すことに慣れていないせいで嗟の言葉選びがまだ上手くいかないアンジェの言う事を何とか解読してみる。
咄 - exclamation

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Phoenix Wright

Last week, I started watching Kiyo's LP of Pheonix Wright on my Chromebook while eating at home (instead of ignoring podcasts in the background like I'd been doing for years) and so I've been going through it a lot more rapidly than before. (It also helps that case 4 is the most interesting). I'm now up to the beginning of the trial on day 2 of case 4.

It's interesting that Manfred van Karma is named "Karuma" in Japanese, nearly the same as the English name. I also learned two new words today, bombe (compressed air tank) and oumu (parrot).

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Spy x Family

In last night's episode, Anya takes an Old English quiz, where they have to translate Old English words into modern English. It stood out to me because I thought it might be another Japan-ism. I've never heard of anyone studying Old English in school in the US, but it occurred to me that Japanese highschoolers might study Classical Japanese (probably not Japanese six-year olds, but that's just Eden College being pretentious), and so the show-writers might have unconsciously transferred that to the fictional European setting, despite it making no sense.

Incidentally, in real life, 19th century elite students in the west studied Latin and Ancient Greek, (rather than Old English), so those might have made more sense to use.
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:11 am

I decided to go through the last 11 pages of my log and compile a list of all the new kanji I've reported in chronological order. Here they are (ignoring a duplicate report of 瞼 and 煽). It's amazing how many I've seen, despite already having a very high level of kanji knowledge. That's 81 new kanji by my count, assuming there aren't any other duplicates I missed.


Sept 22
薪 (firewood)
癌 (cancer)

Oct 5
罹 (contract a disease)
宵 (yoi, evening)

Oct 10
附 (attach)

Oct 14
怯 (fear)
屑 (trash)

Oct 22
鰻 (unagi)
淵 (Chigogafuchi Abyss)

Oct 27
栗 (chestnut)

Nov 1
肛 (anus)

Nov 12
蘇 (resurrect)
炙 (roast)
稽 (think)
舐 (lick)
儚 (fleeting)

Nov 17
垢 (filthy)
餐 (dining)
窪 (hollow)
鎧 (armor)
旺 (vigor)

Nov 22
暈 (halo)
漕 (rowing)

Nov 23
伽 (nurse)

Nov 24
槌 (hammer)

Nov 25
詮 (investigation)
箋 (sen - slip of paper).

Nov 26
痙攣

Nov 28
祟 (curse)
叢 (plexus)
晒 (bleach)
咀 and 嚼 (chewing)

Dec 1
侶 (companion)
弄 (play with)
秤 (scales)

Dec 5
嶺 (peak)

Dec 8
淹 (to brew tea)
霞 (mist)

Dec 14
瞼 (eyelid)

Dec 18
尖 (taper)

Dec 23
膳 (tray)

Jan 6
卿 - sir (kyou): Used as the suffix for Nearly Headless Nick's name
牢 - (jail): When Filch threatens to throw Harry and Ron into the dungeon (地下牢)
裾 - hem

Jan 16
屍 (shikabane, corpse) - from The Draught of Living Death
鉾先 (focus of attack) - word used when Snape blames Harry for Neville's potion mishap
焚き火 (bonfire) - at Hagrid's cabin
樫の木の梢 - two new kanji in one phrase (oak and treetop), pg 239 when Malfoy takes off with Remembrall
槍 (spear) - pg240, describing Harry's broom when he lunges at Malfoy
咄 (story)
嗟 (aah)
茹 (boil)
桶 (bucket)
盥 (washbasin)
咀 and 嚼 (bite)
昏 (twilight)
碧 (blue)
痺 (paralysis):
醒 (wake up - alternate of 覚)
脆 (brittle)
簪 (hairpin)

Jan 21
悸 - pulsate
齧 - nibble

Jan 26
焉 - (how)
疇 - before, companion, same kind
囃 - cheer

Jan 29
喘ぐ (gasp)
椛 (fall leaves)
瞼* (eyelid)

Feb 2
拮 (be imminent)

Feb 3
捻 - twist
焚 - burn
珊瑚 - coral
儲 - profit
芻 - ruminate

Feb 6
訊 - inquire
煽 - fan
咄* - exclamation

Items with * are duplicate reports.
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Bonus

My post from Jan 26 shared a screenshot of a new kanji I saw in a song, but without giving it in text. Therefore, I rewatched the song just now in order to listen to the word and thus guess the reading so I could look it up on Jisho and find the actual kanji (焉).

In the process, I discovered that the song also contained "tobari", a word that I first learned because it is the code name of the crazy rival spy in Spy x Family (except they wrote it with different kanji for some reason).
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:16 pm

Harry Potter

I finally started reading Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone vol2 last night. It begins with a short section not in the original books that gives a short description of the characters, and it was one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

The strange part was which characters they listed. In order, it lists Harry Potter, Neville, Fred and George, Percy, Charlie, Snape, Quirrel, Filch, Peeves, Nicholas Flamel, and Voldemort.

It would make sense for something like this to list the major characters (what I initially expected), or maybe for it to assume the reader already knows the major characters and to only list the minor characters instead. But listing one major character and then a bunch of minor characters is incredibly bizarre. In fact, they even refer to "Ron" without explanation in the descriptions of his bothers, as if they expect the reader to already know who Ron is. What kind of reader is going to know Ron and Hermione but not know who freaking Harry Potter is? WTF?!?!

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Phoenix Wright

I finally finished Case 4 this morning. When Phoenix points out that Yanni Yogi's combination (1228) is the same as the date of the DL6 incident, Manfred von Karma tries to play it off as coincidence by saying that his own bank number is 4649 which spells "yoroshiku", but that's just coincidence. It took me a moment to understand the reference, and that it's based on taking part of the kanji reading for each number, especially since it uses different readings for the two 4s.

It seems that in the English localization, they changed this to him saying that his number is 0001 because he "is number one", which makes him seem kind of stupid. I'm surprised they weren't able to find a better translation for this bit.

Also, at one point the word "黒幕" came up, a word on WK that I didn't expect to ever see in the wild.

Anyway, next up is case 5. All I remember from my college days is that Case 5 is really really long. It presumably also seems to drag on due to being less dramatic than Case 4. Case 4 is the real climax of the game, which makes sense, since it was the original ending of the narrative, while Case 5 is just a DLC that got tacked on afterwards.

Case 4 is also the one covered in the movie. I watched the Pheonix Wright movie (with subtitles) in my college days after finding it on Youtube or the like. I'm interested in watching it again now that I've watched the Japanese version of the games and have studied Japanese and could appreciate it more, but obviously Youtube has changed in the last 12 years and you can't just find movies like that anymore, so it's not clear where it can be watched.

Edit: Or rather, you can't find it on Youtube for free. Justwatch says that you can "buy" it on Youtube for $3.59. I've never tried "buying" anything on Youtube before, but maybe I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

In the process of trying to find this, I discovered that there is also a 2016 anime based on the games as well. And a stage play, apparently.

P.S. After writing that, I look at the Ace Attorney Reddit for a bit, and learned that apparently, everyone hates Justice For All and considers it the worst in the series, mostly because in a four case game, it has the weakest tutorial case of the series and then case 3 (Turnabout Big Top) is apparently really bad, generally considered the worst single case in the whole series by fans. Apparently Big Top is one of the creator's favorite episodes and he considers it "basically perfect", so that's pretty ironic.

Back in the day when I watched Bennibanny5's German LP, I made it through the first game. I watched the first two cases of the second game and the beginning of the third, but I found it to be pretty boring and stopped. It's ironic that I stopped right at the worst case in the series. I also found the first case of the second game to be pretty stupid and boring, so it's nice to see that other fans agree with me there as well.

Also, for a long time I thought that they wasted the character of Manfred von Karma. By establishing that he had never lost a case before prior to Turnabout Goodbyes and then having him get convicted and executed after his first appearance, they made it impossible to ever use him again. Or so I thought. Apparently he does show up in two flashback episodes later. He shows up in Investigations, where you play as Edgeworth, which solves the problem of his perfect record making it impossible for him to ever be the opponent when the player is defence, even in a flashback case.


---
Satori Reader

家の中に入ると、春明は何か言葉にできない違和感を覚えた。
A note from SR here explaining that in addition to the normal meaning of "to remember" for 覚える, it can also mean "to feel", and that authors will often use it in place of 感じる in order to avoid repeating the 感 kanji. It's almost like the Japanese equivalent of Said Bookism.

家の中は、しんと静まり返っていた。
A note here explains that 返る is sometimes used in verb compounds to mean that the verb happens in an "extreme or complete" manner, rather than meaning "return" like you might expect. So 静まり返る actually means "to become still as death", rather than something like "to return to silence".

Two new kanji:

そして瞬時にさっと踵を返して、玄関へ向かって走りだした。
踵 - heel

しかし、玄関まで走って来た春明は、青白い明かりに浮かび上がった建物を見て愕然とした。
愕 - surprise

Also, SR has another note pointing out a Japanese expression that can't easily be translated into English - "the how many-th time":

何度目に起きた?
It happened on the "how-many-th" time?
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golyplot
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Re: Learning Japanese From Zero

Postby golyplot » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:31 am

Phoenix Wright, Localization, and Wasei Eigo

I started Case 5 this afternoon. Kiyo's surprise when the lengthy epilogue sequence and credits after case 4 abruptly lead to a new case was pretty funny. Incidentally, he used the term "staff roll" to refer to the credits. Many years ago before I studied Japanese, I saw the term "staff roll" show up a lot in videogame soundtrack names (in English), but had no idea what it meant. Apparently it was Japanese for "credits" all this time.

I basically completely tuned out the conversation with Lana at the start, but the initial investigation of the parking garage was pretty interesting, to the point where I went back and looked up videos of the English game for comparison.

First off, there's the "security" room that overlooks the garage. In the Japanese version, the sign still says "SECURITY" in English. When you examine it, Ema thinks that it must be a "kissaya". When Phoenix corrects her, she says that she recently got a 97 a science test and Phoenix wonders what her grades in English were.

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In the English version, the scene is similar with Ema thinking it must be a "cafe", except that at the end after the science test remark, Phoenix just thinks "too bad they don't have a test for common sense", since of course American high school students would not be learning words like "security" in English class.

Incidentally, I had to check three different English let's plays before I found one that bothered to examine the security office (hence why this screenshot is of the old DS version unlike the ones below). Even the "longplay" skipped it. It's pretty annoying that there are no videos on Youtube which actually go through and show you everything.

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The most interesting part though was Jake Marshall, who has a wild west cowboy gimmick, which means that they had to make a lot of changes during localization. Although not as many as I had expected. His Japanese dialog still uses "bambina", which was faithfully reproduced in the localization, as was the weird comment about cacti dreaming. However, his "cowboy" got translated differently and the English version made him use actual Western-speak, since of course that's a thing in English.

The weirdest part is that in the Japanese version, he declares the crime scene to be his team's "gold rush". Presumably this is some sort of wasei eigo. It's just so weird to see them throw in random English words without bothering to choose words that actually make sense. In the English version, they changed it to the correct "gold strike".

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Also very weird is his name. In the Japanese version, Jake is supposed to be American, but still has a Japanese name (Zaimon) for some reason. It seems that Phoenix is surprised by this as well though.

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Also, after the first conversation, Phoenix asks Ema if she knows that "宇宙人... 外国人". In the English version, he instead says "uh, hombre".

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One other thing I found really interesting is that during the initial investigation, after seeing Ema's banter with Phoenix when he investigates various things in the garage, Kiyo said their interactions were very similar to with Maya, but he used the word "nioi", which stood out to me since it obviously normally means something different. Jisho says it can also mean "aura; whiff; smacks of ...; sense; flavour; flavor​", so I guess that's the sense in which he was using it.
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