Learning Japanese From Zero

[golyplot]

I was shocked when my WK apprentice count dropped to 91 this evening. It's only been below 100 once in the last several months when it briefly dropped down to 98, but today it hit 91. I checked, and the last time it was this low was in April. The strangest part is that I haven't been doing any better on my reviews lately than usual. I guess maybe the latest level just had less/easier material than usual. Or possibly I've just been acing all the apprentice reviews while missing all the Enlightened and Burn reviews instead. Either way, it was pretty cool to see.

I've never looked at 4989 before but it looks like lots of episodes, so you'd need to pick one as an example.

She says it near the end of every episode.

[dampingwire]

She says it near the end of every episode.

Sorry, but I couldn't hear it in #121. So I jumped to the scripts and went as far back as #118 looking for 土産 and やげ (i.e. just the snippets to try for a better match) and I couldn't find it there.

(It does seem like an interesting podcast, so I maybe should try it out for real soon).

[golyplot]

Sorry, but I couldn't hear it in #121. So I jumped to the scripts and went as far back as #118 looking for 土産 and やげ (i.e. just the snippets to try for a better match) and I couldn't find it there.

(It does seem like an interesting podcast, so I maybe should try it out for real soon).

Sorry about that, I should have specified the episodes I was listening to to save you the time. I noticed it at the end of 73 and 74, IIRC. She probably changes the ending speil from time to time. Oddly, I noticed it near the beginning of several later episodes instead, most recently ep 80. I haven't gotten up to ep89 yet, which is the first with a transcript available. Otherwise, I'd just check the transcripts.

[vonPeterhof]

I also noticed that in 4989 American Life, the host says omiyage very frequently. I learned omiyage previously as "souvenir" but she says it so often that I thought it had to be a different word I wasn't aware of. However, I looked it up and souvenir is the only meaning, more or less. Perhaps she's using it more metaphorically?

Couldn't find the transcript for ep.73, but I listened to the segment at the end and there doesn't seem to be any special meaning to it, the host is just talking about gathering suggestions for what kinds of American お土産 would go over well in Japan. The only metaphorical use of the word I can think of is the phrase 冥土の土産, where it refers to a memory or an experience after which one can die without regrets.

Although I guess there is a bit of a mismatch between the meaning of "souvenir" and "お土産" to the point that it's sometimes best not to translate the one as the other and vice versa. It is my understanding that, since "souvenir" comes from the French for "memory" or "recollection", it's generally used in reference to something that can be kept as a keepsake for a long time, and can even be something you keep for yourself instead of giving to another person. While お土産 can be used that way, 記念品 is a much closer equivalent to that meaning of "souvenir". お土産 is used for any sort of local produce that can be taken back to share with people back home, and in fact it's more often than not used for foods and other perishables, which can't really serve as mementos for a long time. And, like dampingwire said, it's also used for little treats you bring with you when you visit another person's home, in which case it loses all nuance of "local produce of a specific area" (in fact I remember reading a foreigner in Japan specifically advising people not to bring something from your home country every time you visit a Japanese home as a guest, since it's not really expected for a normal visit and in fact might be seen as you showing off).

[golyplot]

Eight month update:

Wow, it's hard to believe I'm already two thirds of the way through my originally planned year of Japanese study! As usual, I have much less to show for it than I'd like. By the standards of my original post, I am officially "humbled".

For the last couple of months, Japanese study has largely fallen by the wayside, but a week ago, I finished up the other stuff I was working on and turned my full focus towards Japanese. Of course, the biggest part of my studies has been Wanikani, which I continued doing through thick and thin, so things didn't change as much as you might think.

The main thing that changed is that I was watching anime much less often, as well as all the other miscellaneous things I might try to do to learn Japanese which I wasn't doing due to being occupied by other pursuits. To save you from doing the math, I compared my current anime progress against last month's update. Since the last update, I've watched 15 episodes of CCS, 9 of BNA, and 4 of Saiki K. Around half of that all was just in the last week.

Anyway, I think the biggest obstacle is grammar, so I've started trying to actively study grammar again. I've been slowly going through Tae Kim's grammar guide (RIP) and restarted Bunpro, though it's hard to tell how effective that is. I'm certainly already annoyed again by how laggy Bunpro is. I wish they'd fix their site so it wasn't such a pain to use.

In other news, while watching ep4 of Saiki K. I noticed that he sorts the trash into bags labeled "burnable" and "nonburnable". (This is mainly due to reading the English subtitle file before watching the episode - I would have never noticed otherwise). I once learned the vocab "burnable trash" and "nonburnable trash" on Wanikani, but didn't think of it much at the time. It's interesting to see that Japan sorts trash that way, since that isn't a thing over here. It's really interesting to see all those little cultural differences that you'd never think about.


Shows watched:
Complete:
BNA: Brand New Animal (12 eps)
The Dragon Prince (27 eps)
Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online (12 eps)
Hilda (10 eps)
Carmen Sandiego (19 eps)

Ongoing:
The Disastrous Life of Saiki K. (4 eps)
Cardcaptor Sakura (50 eps)

Abandoned:
One Piece (3 eps)
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (1 ep)

Wanikani Update:
Level 36
Items Learned (Guru+): 422部首 1212漢字 3869単語

Although I guess there is a bit of a mismatch between the meaning of "souvenir" and "お土産" to the point that it's sometimes best not to translate the one as the other and vice versa. It is my understanding that, since "souvenir" comes from the French for "memory" or "recollection", it's generally used in reference to something that can be kept as a keepsake for a long time, and can even be something you keep for yourself instead of giving to another person. While お土産 can be used that way, 記念品 is a much closer equivalent to that meaning of "souvenir". お土産 is used for any sort of local produce that can be taken back to share with people back home, and in fact it's more often than not used for foods and other perishables, which can't really serve as mementos for a long time. And, like dampingwire said, it's also used for little treats you bring with you when you visit another person's home, in which case it loses all nuance of "local produce of a specific area" (in fact I remember reading a foreigner in Japan specifically advising people not to bring something from your home country every time you visit a Japanese home as a guest, since it's not really expected for a normal visit and in fact might be seen as you showing off).

Thanks for the explanation! It seems like "souvenir" is not at all an appropriate translation for "お土産" in that case.

[golyplot]

I still can't get over the whole "referring to people you are talking to by name" thing. It just feels so weird from a Western perspective. There's a scene in episode 51 of Card Captor Sakura where Sakura gives a teddy bear she made to Yukito and he responds with something like "Was this made by Sakura-chan?" where in English you'd instead say "Did you make this yourself?"

Incidentally, episode 51 also sees Sakura growing wings. I remember when I was a little kid, I once saw an ad for Cardcaptors on TV which showed Sakura growing wings. I always wondered what the context of that clip was. (My other exposure to the series as a kid was coming across the novelization of the time loop episode in a bookstore once and skimming through it.)

[seito]

In other news, while watching ep4 of Saiki K. I noticed that he sorts the trash into bags labeled "burnable" and "nonburnable". (This is mainly due to reading the English subtitle file before watching the episode - I would have never noticed otherwise). I once learned the vocab "burnable trash" and "nonburnable trash" on Wanikani, but didn't think of it much at the time. It's interesting to see that Japan sorts trash that way, since that isn't a thing over here. It's really interesting to see all those little cultural differences that you'd never think about.

Trash sorting in Japan is a bit complex and there's almost always at least 2-3 places to throw trash, depending on what it is. Fortunately, employees in restaurants and such will often take your trash and sort it, since even Japanese people don't always get it right.

[golyplot]

Well, I guess this is pretty much just an anime log now. Episode 52 started out pretty boring, but there was one interesting moment where Sakura answers the door, and she pauses to take off her slippers on a mat near the entry area before answering the door. I didn't even notice she was wearing bunny slippers until she took them off. It's interesting to see little cultural details like that.

I also noticed that she refers to the stuffed sheep toys later in the episode as "hitsuji-san", which I found interesting since I thought "-san" was just used for people and mountains. It seemed weird to see sheep being called that.



On a non-Japanese note, I was surprised to see a rack focus shot early in the episode. It's not something you'd expect to see in a 20 year old animated series. I'm curious how they did it. I assume it was simulated digitally, but given the age, you never know.

I also read that Tomoyo was given a valley girl voice in the Nelvana dub which is difficult for me to imagine. It's just such a contrast from her character in the Japanese version.

[vonPeterhof]

I also noticed that she refers to the stuffed sheep toys later in the episode as "hitsuji-san", which I found interesting since I thought "-san" was just used for people and mountains.

By the way, the "-san" in the names of mountains is unrelated to the honorific "-san". The mountain "san" is the on'yomi of the character 山, and thus related to the Mandarin shān, whereas the honorific "-san" is derived from the native Japanese "-sama" and is pretty much never written in kanji.

[genini1]

Well, I guess this is pretty much just an anime log now. Episode 52 started out pretty boring, but there was one interesting moment where Sakura answers the door, and she pauses to take off her slippers on a mat near the entry area before answering the door. I didn't even notice she was wearing bunny slippers until she took them off. It's interesting to see little cultural details like that.

I also noticed that she refers to the stuffed sheep toys later in the episode as "hitsuji-san", which I found interesting since I thought "-san" was just used for people and mountains. It seemed weird to see sheep being called that.

You can also call actual animals -san, but it sounds pretty childish. It's similar in English to calling something Mr. Pig or Ms. Mouse. There's also company names being called -san.