The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin Log

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The Real CZ
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The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin Log

Postby The Real CZ » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:42 pm

I started my original log on HTLAL almost 6 years ago. I have tried various methods with various languages (mainly Korean and Japanese, which I both started in 2009) and Mandarin (which I started in 2013). What I have found is that no matter the method, the only thing that matters is consistency and commitment. I would say that my peak in Korean and Japanese was back in 2012 when I had more time to study. I would say that I was upper B2 in Korean back then in comprehension and upper B1 in usage, though I have probably fallen to the lower ends of both levels today. I was at the stage in Korean where I really just needed to constantly read and practice in order to learn all of the vocabulary needed to break the C1 hump, but as I neared graduation, I lost the time. For Japanese, I was always a step behind, and I think my skills have deteriorated more since my base level wasn't as high. With Mandarin, it feels like I'm starting over.

Over the summer, I was trying to use Anki to exclusively study vocabulary and grammar, but I find that Anki works best when you actually have a lot of time to study, because it should just be a small part of your study plan, not the basis of it. I felt like I was reading the same sentences every day in Anki. I was using Anki mainly because it is a great tool to help you study every day, however, with limited time, I don't think I should be using it. I don't think I would have ever gotten to an intermediate level in Korean and Japanese without the help of Anki, as the AJATT sentence method was very helpful. However, with all of the experimenting I have done, I have found other ways to keep me motivated enough to study every day.

These days, I am more focused on making the languages an every day part of my routine instead of focused study. I simply read news articles in the languages (most of the time just a paragraph and then I move onto the next article) using a pop-up dictionary, preferring to just read a lot to acquire vocabulary. I feel like once I reach an intermediate level in a language, massive amounts of reading seems to be a more effective use of my time as opposed to strict vocabulary study.

For grammar, I'm using a two-pronged attack. I'm simply just repeating sentences out loud like I always have from grammar books, and I'm trying to use what I learn every day. I have a private blog where I'll be aiming to write a few sentences every day in my three languages. I also have a Twitter account that's exclusively used for language practice. I was trying to use MCD cards in Anki to learn grammar, but I got sick of seeing the same sentences all the time (I could probably repeat some of them from memory).

This log will be a lot less experimental than my previous log as I have finally found the methods that work for me. I can't even predict what this log will contain for future posts. Probably just insights to what I have been learning/practicing.

Anyway, I won't have much time to study every day because of my job, but through language learning I have found a lot of enjoyable TV shows, movies, and music, so it allows me to have something fun to do.
Last edited by The Real CZ on Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mjfleck2000
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, and Mandarin Log

Postby mjfleck2000 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:22 pm

The Real CZ wrote:These days, I am more focused on making the languages an every day part of my routine instead of focused study. I simply read news articles in the languages (most of the time just a paragraph and then I move onto the next article) using a pop-up dictionary, preferring to just read a lot to acquire vocabulary. I feel like once I reach an intermediate level in a language, massive amounts of reading seems to be a more effective use of my time as opposed to strict vocabulary study.


Me too... me too! :D

My experience learning /improving language skills follows your path. Many years ago( many!), I studied German to around level B2. For the last two years I have been studying Spanish to around level B2. With both languages, for me, I found that at the beginner levels (A1, A2), concentrated vocabulary study was VERY useful. At this level you need to learn the basic words that will be seen almost daily (colors, animals, country names, numbers, shapes,etc).
Once you arrive at the middle levels (B1,B2), I found that there are just too many words to "memorize". Vocabulary study required a large investment of time with a low reward. Instead of focused memorization, I would learn vocabulary in context, that is, I would learn it when I needed to use it or understand the word.

Since I am studying Spanish right now, every day I read CNN en Español... and every day there is new vocabulary. If I encounter vocabulary that I had to look up previously, I make a special effort to look it up again and then create several sentences with the new word. Or, I will speak, out loud to myself, a summary of the news article. The new vocabulary seems to "stick" better with this method as opposed to concentrated study.

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The Real CZ
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby The Real CZ » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:55 pm

A year later and I finally post again. Sadly, I haven't really made much progress in the past year because a lot of my time has been spent working/studying for work-related exams.

I started French today with Assimil. I'm hoping to go through the course a few times, just repeating out loud after I've heard the sentences a few times. It looks like I'll have to also spend some time just comparing the sentences to grasp the new words and grammar. Then my plan is to go through the drills in FSI French (just read them out loud ad nauseam) and hope things start sticking. Then in early 2017 I plan to start working more on output and diving into native/intermediate materials.

For the three Asian languages I'm learning, I plan on just reading articles for now to learn/re-learn vocabulary words. I'll probably get back onto the grammar train early next year.
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qeadz
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby qeadz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:01 pm

The Real CZ wrote: I don't think I would have ever gotten to an intermediate level in Korean and Japanese without the help of Anki, as the AJATT sentence method was very helpful.


What did you put in your Anki for Korean?

I'm unfamiliar with AJATT, but a quick google shows its a mass sentences approach. Did you build your own for Korean?

What did you do with it to get the most value from it? I've read a number of approaches to the mass sentences idea, some as simple as 'flashcards, but with sentences', others including writing out by hand. I also read of one interesting approach where the person took each 'base' sentence and then wrote out a number of versions of it with different words (in this case the language was German and they did so to get used to how different nouns and genders changed the sentence).

It seems each person has their own little spin on it, and I'm interested to know yours :)
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The Real CZ
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby The Real CZ » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:26 am

qeadz wrote:
The Real CZ wrote: I don't think I would have ever gotten to an intermediate level in Korean and Japanese without the help of Anki, as the AJATT sentence method was very helpful.


What did you put in your Anki for Korean?

I'm unfamiliar with AJATT, but a quick google shows its a mass sentences approach. Did you build your own for Korean?

What did you do with it to get the most value from it? I've read a number of approaches to the mass sentences idea, some as simple as 'flashcards, but with sentences', others including writing out by hand. I also read of one interesting approach where the person took each 'base' sentence and then wrote out a number of versions of it with different words (in this case the language was German and they did so to get used to how different nouns and genders changed the sentence).

It seems each person has their own little spin on it, and I'm interested to know yours :)


I tried three different methods for Anki. In my opinion, once you reach a lower intermediate level in a language, it's best to leave Anki.

Method #1: Sentence method. Find simple sentences from news articles, textbooks, and online dictionaries. On the front, put the Korean sentence in there. On the back, put the translation for any word you don't know (well) on the back. You can do even more customization, such as also putting the whole translated sentence there (if provided), using cloze deletions to focus on word at a time (and you'll end up seeing the sentence more).

Method #2: Grammar method. Using a grammar reference book, I put the Korean sentence and English translation on the front and clozed every syllable that was part of the grammar point I was learning. I would read these sentences out loud. Because of the cloze deletions, I would end up seeing each sentence a lot.

Method #3: Pure Vocab method. I would put the English translation on the front and the Chinese characters after that. If it was a pure Korean word, I would put a Korean sentence containing that word and hide the word I'm trying to recall. On the back, I would put the Korean word.

The scriptorium method is probably the most useful method for me when starting a new language. Writing things down helps a lot, and using Professor Arguelles' method really helped me get a solid foundation in Korean and Japanese (I used Anki for Mandarin). I'm using it for French right now.

In my opinion, I'd say only use Anki in the beginning of your studies. Don't become a slave like I did because it ends up burning you out.
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druckfehler
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby druckfehler » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:11 am

It's good to see you here! And also great to see you're studying French now. I am planning to enroll in a French beginner's course which starts at the end of October. I think it will be very interesting to read how you find French in comparison to the East Asian languages.

When re-reading your introductory course, I noticed that you put your passive level for Korean at B2... I bet you were around C1 when you started working, judging from the novels you read.
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Korean Grammar in Use:
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The Real CZ
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby The Real CZ » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:42 pm

Hey druck! Yeah, someone told me that I wouldn't be able to learn French because it's "too hard" and I was like "Please, I taught myself Korean!" I've only gone through a few lessons in Assimil and probably won't be able to dive deeply into it until early next year, but I am trying to get a decent level in comprehension (i.e. finishing Assimil at least passively) by the end of the year.

I put B2 because I'm nowhere near as strong in Korean as I used to be. When reading your language log and seeing your progress in Korean, I always wonder if I'd be around the same level. At any rate, I am planning on getting out of public accounting sooner rather than later and going to a F500 company to join their tax department, so I'll definitely have a life then (and time to study).

I think my Japanese and Mandarin are almost at beginner levels again...but those can easily be brought back up.
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The Real CZ
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby The Real CZ » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:22 am

I haven't done much formal study lately, but I found my mom four months ago and visit her every weekend, so I get a lot of Korean speaking practice. I will need to do some formal studying because I was much better at Korean 4-5 years ago than I am today.
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druckfehler
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French Log

Postby druckfehler » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:04 pm

The Real CZ wrote:I haven't done much formal study lately, but I found my mom four months ago and visit her every weekend, so I get a lot of Korean speaking practice. I will need to do some formal studying because I was much better at Korean 4-5 years ago than I am today.

That sounds absolutely great! Your mom must be happy and proud of you that you learned Korean on your own.
How's it going with formal study? I can't seem to motivate myself to do formal study at the moment. Maybe it's just something we need to take breaks from, especially when working and pursuing other hobbies. But it seems that the informal study of regular conversation is almost more beneficial than formal study. Of course combining both would be ideal, but if I have to choose one over the other I'll definitely go with having conversations.
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Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

The Real CZ
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Re: The Real CZ's Korean, Japanese, Mandarin Log

Postby The Real CZ » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:55 pm

Hi druck! Yeah, she was happy that I learned Korean on my own. It makes it so much easier for us to talk. She mainly speaks in Korean to me and if I don't understand something, she'll say it English. I try to talk in Korean as much as possible, but there are some topics where it's just much easier to respond in English.

I just started getting back to formal studying. I passed my CPA exams earlier in December and got the results about a week or two ago, so I finally have my professional designation behind me. Now I just have to do 40 hours of CPE (Continuing Professional Education) each year, which is usually just watching webinars or attending seminars or doing some self-study programs. So now I have time to study Korean, Japanese and Mandarin again. I'm planning on devising on how I should study since it has been three-four years since I did any serious studying in these languages.

I'll be going to Japan with my mom and stepdad sometime in 2018. Not sure about Korea yet. My mom is worried about war breaking out in Korea, and I will have to contact a Korean embassy here sooner or later to be 100% sure that I'll have zero chance of being subject to the Korean draft if I visit.

I'm thinking maybe in 2019 or 2020 visiting Taiwan. I like their entertainment much better, I love the accent much better (they don't have the ugly 'r' sound added to the end of their words like the Beijing accent), and I like breathing the air of sweet freedom (that comes with being an American haha.) I may go to China in the future, but it's not somewhere I want to visit within the next five years.
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