A coffee addicted immigrant and company

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Cavesa
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A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:28 pm

Ok, this log of mine will be a bit different from what my readers (whom I value very much!) are used to, and it may be a good thing. It shouldn't lead to many failures, as there will be very few language learning goals till June, I'm planning to focus on observations and experience sharing. Majority of the log will be impressions of a C2 speaker, who has just moved to a new country and started a job, that sometimes requires even higher language skills. And the free time is even harder in some ways.

A part of this log will be my Lab. We all get asked for advice, I suppose, but it rarely goes well in the offline world :-D
Case Study 1:My boyfriend is a courageous man, who has moved abroad with me. He has just started French and he's rather different from most learners around here (not a bookworm, but enjoys non fiction on the internet and sometimes offline, technically oriented, hates memorisation, doesn't really have any option to fail :-D ), so his learning story might be interesting and I'd also like to hear your opinions, you might often have better ideas than me.
2:One of my siblings, a teenager, currently struggling a bit with school, including French.
3: several less closely tied people, who keep asking me for advice, apply a part of it or not, and it leads somewhere or not

So, just in case anybody is new to my logs, here is a hyper tiny introduction:
native language: Czech
English: officially C1 (CAE), passive skills C2. But I write stupidly, when I am really tired or careless :-D
French: officially C2 (an extremely short overview of my path: struggling with school which was more often actively sabotaging me than helping, DELF B2 mostly thanks to my work, a few years of mostly digesting books and tv series, DALF C2, then Erasmus for six months, then a few years, now I've just moved here)
Spanish: unofficially B2, with C1/C2 passive skills. I spent one month in Spain years ago (not in a language class).
Italian: passive B2/C1, active B1ish skills
German: touristy level, forgot the rest of my previous A1/A2ish skills. And I regret it.

Oh, and I happen to be an MD :-D (which is something this community has helped me to as well, your support has meant a lot to me!)

Welcome! And thank you for reading!
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Cavesa
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:37 pm

A little bit over a week ago, I finally did it. I finally moved abroad. Sure, I haven't cut the ties, burnt any bridges, and my old apartment hundreds of km from here is still full of boxes and approximately one quarter of things that still need to be put at least into those boxes, and then put it all into storage. But it is still a new beginning already, with just some lose ends to be tied later.

I do not regret at all, not even when faced with the famous bureaucratie. It is a real hell and a trap. You need paper A for paper B, and paper C for paper A, but it is hard to get paper C without paper B,... Yes, I feel a bit desperate at times. Such as now, I feel like screaming. The locals have so much easier time. And the EU doesn't really help, majority of these things is unnecessary (or could be done much more simply), but nobody pushes France to improve. Really, France is on the profiting end of the brain drain, they should make it as easy as possible, for us leaving the worse quality countries. What really helps is finding a clerk, who helps. Many are awesome and really fight the horrible system and sometimes other bureaucrats (because they see their jobs as helping people, not making our lives even more miserable) and I couldn't do it without them. Those are my heroes.

For a few years, I will be probably moving every six months (hopefully a bit less). In my specialty, majority of my half-years (a basic unit of residency) happens outside the main city of the region. It's crazy, I know. But for start, I have gotten an apartment from this hospital (which has saved me several paperwork traps! that's even better than all the money it saves me :-D During these six months, I should have enough to put at least a bit of it aside for worse times in the city). Not an apartment, actually. A palace! :-D Moving to a tiny town, that is a bit of a cultural shock though. Much more than moving to a different country. Different demographics, different life style, different troubles. But some things are absolutely awesome. I sleep much better and I think the silence and natural light (plenty of it in the morning, almost none in the night) are a part of it.

This hospital is really a great place to start. Big for such a small town, regionally important. The attention to our education is obvious, and I am lucky to be in a group of residents, where the more experienced ones teach us, the newbies, a lot. I should get my first patients next week. So far, I've been doubling with someone else, reading the documentations, etc. Majority of the doctors is helpful and takes their role in forming us very seriously. Majority of the non medical staff seems very approachable and helpful too. However, there are some pending changes, that could damage the overall work conditions a lot while I am here, so let's hope it doesn't come to it in the end.

I have no problem understanding the patients (unless they are very hard for the natives too, which can happen for a variety of reasons). I speak rather well but not enough, I really feel like I appear much less intelligent in French than in my native language (but sure, I might be just overestimating my native self :-D ). Basically, there are situations I master 100%, and then there are situations, in which I struggle. I do not find the best words, I don't pay attention and miss something (including easy stuff, when I am really tired), etc. Usually stuff not related to work, but to the rest of the life. We've also had a few video simulations of interviews, which was awesome. Of course I though I was speaking horribly, but the stress of the situation was making it hard for all of us. It was an extremely useful experience, to know what do we look/sound like, and to also see the good moments of our colleagues and learn from them.

Yes, I have tons of work related studying planned (already got some literature), that's why I do not take on any language learning projects, aside from improving my French in some ways (but mostly as a side effect, I cannot devote too much to it. A few thousand precise words could be helpful. And if I could find someone good enough to help me get rid of the accent, that would be nice. But I doubt that a bit, and it definitely couldn't be anyone local, due to the regional accent I don't wish to acquire either.). But I really wish I had learnt German, it might be useful occasionally.
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby lingua » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:02 pm

I'm sure that over the six months your fluency and word choices will improve. How are the residencies structured there? Do you work normal work weeks? Or will you be working excessive hours like I always hear they do in the US although I have no personal knowledge of this.
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Cavesa
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:35 pm

I don't have any major problem with fluency (I am at C2 after all), just in some kinds of moments, but I am not sure whether the less smooth parts will improve. I am already good at stuff I do reasonably often, and I won't do the "rare" stuff too much anyways, so I don't know. The same applies to the vocabulary. But perfectionism can be harmful, I'll try to be more kind to myself :-D

The thing is, that any real progress in the language now might be really expensive and time consuming (tons of hours with an extremely exceptional teacher. The immersion might actually even hold me back) :-D

The residency is not for six months, it is just the change of hospitals or at least services within the hospitals that happens every six months. It's a little like the musical chair (the last one doesn't get eliminated, I just get the worst spot nobody else will want). I'll spend at least four years in the country.

In my specialty, the excessive hours are not too common, we are well defended by our representatives. Some specialties are much worse. But even the overworked doctors by the french standards are mostly nowhere near the czech or american "norms" :-D
..................................

About my beloved Samples in my Lab:

My bf's favourite tool so far has been Kwiziq. Unlike Speakly (which he might return to later), it explains the grammar really well, and the exercises are addictive. Let's see, whether he can finally tackle the Progressive books. I bought him a few for my birthday :-D

He had originally tried Duolingo, but didn't like it (too inefficient). It was a very nice gesture though.
....
A friend of mine wanted advice on his French learning two months ago. He needs to pass a B2 exam in a few months from now. He ignored almost everything during that conversation and pushed me to tell him the name of my teacher before DALF. I don't know why people think it is all about the teachers? Why does everybody seem to think I must be just a naive and too proud moron, who doesn't want to give credit to some awesome teachers, who surely pushed me to my level? :-D I warned him, that self-study would be necessary, and told him both the advantages and problems of that teacher. Well, he is now complaining about that teacher and finding out I was right :-D

Why I took lessons with that particular teacher years ago:
-there were no resources on Dalf writing available
-a native speaker, who claimed to have previous experience with language exam preparation (a claim that was partially proven false much later)
-there was nobody else willing to take an advanced learner
-speaking practice is always a nice thing (even though I just got rid of the rust during the first lesson and then it was a plateau)
-I was not confident enough to do this on my own and I didn't know enough about any skype learning opportunities.

What I liked about those lessons:
-the writing feedback. yes, it was in some ways not too detailed ("why?" "there is no rule, we just don't write it like that"), but it was still much more than I could get anywhere else
-a speaking opportunity, with what I thought was feedback (nope, he was far too lenient. but speaking was still nice)
-writing homework between the lessons

What I hated:
-his attempts to make me waste my time on the grammar exercises I could do on my own
-too easy assignments sometimes

What I was still doing on my own:
-The whole grammar review with Progressives
-Reading one book a week (or half a book, if it was a long one)
-Tons of tv series watching

A few years later, he is using me and the other DALF student from those days as shiny pieces of his marketing strategy. And this friend of mine is much less stubborn then me. So, in the end, they are spending the paid hours on doing random grammar exercises without previous explanations (the "teacher" doesn't know the rules very probably), rereading them again and again (the "teacher" believes in memorisation of the exercises as the best language learning method. but without explaining the mistakes.), and not really doing anything else. The friend is very frustrated by this and by lack of any well thought out curriculum or a lesson plan he could prepare for at home.

So guys, this is a great example of what I've been saying for years: Don't trust teachers too much, don't let them make your plans, don't believe vague promises, and never underestimate the importance of self study.

And another thing: The teacher was useful only because I insisted on it. I am actually rather disappointed by him now, and I feel a bit guilty about recommending him to this friend.
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Cavesa
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:30 am

the first few weeks are behind me. Some assorted news and impressions:

Writing observations well is a separate skill to normal writing. I was even told I was writing too much like a literature, not being exact and objective enough, and my reports are too long (hehe, I think you all know this little bad habit of mine :-D ). That was not a compliment on my writing skills, but rather a precise comment on the wrong style. I'm working on that by both improving my semiology knowledge, and reading the documentations by other authors a lot. But I am profiting from my fast typing skills! And mistakes written by some natives make me feel so much better about mine :-D (because there is often something I miss, and you cannot just easily edit stuff in the software)

When I have time for a large project (so probably never), I have some very good ideas on medical French and everyday French coursebooks for intermediate learners. And yes, I am sure they are good ideas, that is no unfounded pride (the tricky part would be realisation, not the ideas) In the "everyday French" area, the publishers are at least trying, but most of them fail at the exactly same stuff, but some resources still serve to some extent. But when it comes to medical French, those few courses available are totally wrongly thought out. The main mistake: instead of giving tons of real examples and stuff otherwise learnable only in the country, they are trying to "replace" medical textbooks, but extremely superficially.

I even used my Italian, my speaking sucked. I am seriously afraid of losing all my skills in Spanish and Italian, truth be told. But I cannot devote much time to either.

I've moved a few steps forward in the horrible labyrinth of bureaucracy. It is a hell. But every step forward feels even more rewarding then most university exams. I am still not finished, the worst institution (which drives even the natives crazy. Do you know that wonderful Asterix scene, which is on youtube? La maison qui rend fou, that's the name I think) is still fighting me.

The IT crowd unblocked my favourite dictionary website for me! Yay! A .cz site probably looked suspicious to the software. But I am fed up with the low quality of cz-fr GT, and I don't want to waste my private internet on a work tool.

Apart from bits of new fun vocabulary, I am also learning tons of abbreviations. Some are the normal medical ones (but even those are sometimes a challenge, especially in a language with a different word order). The harder ones tend to be hidden in the chapters devoted to the relevant biography or social situation of the patient. Abbreviations meaning various kinds and levels of education (which also vary among generations), various types of institutions, social benefits, and so on. :-D It's really an adventure.
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Cavesa
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Cavesa » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:02 pm

Today is an important anniversary. 30 years since the Velvet Revolution. I am not at home this weekend to celebrate and to participate on the huge protest manifestations against certain things that don't go well at all. But that doesn't mean I don't value this day.

I wanted to point out, what the freedom (which czechs still have, despite some parts of it being taken away) has brought the language learners.

-travelling. That means more ways to practice and also more motivation. Before the revolution, you could have hoped only for a few selected countries, perhaps once in a decade, and only if you were deemed trustworthy enough by the government (in some cases, you could go, but had to leave the children behind, etc). The only people allowed to travel a lot were exceptionally devoted to the regime, and often had various tasks to complete (such as espionage).

-working abroad or in the international companies. This is an extreme difference. Right now, I am profiting from my right to work abroad, without having to burn the bridges. I can choose to come back or not, I can go back as often as I make time at work. I left the country just in my car, without any border patrols and similar stuff. Before the revolution, it was unthinkable. Those, who decided to emigrate, were risking their lives at the borders (electric fences, shooting patrolmen, dogs,...) and then knew they would probably never see their loved ones again.

-studying abroad. Studying in general, truth be told. Before the revolution, there were more important things than your talent and hard work, when it came to being accepted to university or even highschool (your political views, those of your parents, the social background of several generations of your family,...). Now, it is mostly about your abilities (yes, the social and financial side plays a role, but really minor compared to the stuff that was important decades ago). And most people wishing to do so, may now go abroad on an Erasmus or find a different opportunity.

-access to culture and literature in the other languages. Yes, the internet has the crucial role in here (but we could argue that we definitely wouldn't have normal access to the internet without freedom). But even if we leave it out, the revolution suddenly meant that you could import foreign books and movies, something unthinkable before.

-a much larger selection of learning resources. When older language teachers remember the days right after the revolution, they often mention how little did they have, and how surprised they were by the offer on the market.

-a diversification of learning. Yes, some people criticise that English has just replaced Russian in schools, and they are partially right. But two foreign languages are the norm for a much larger portion of the population in high schools now. There are tons of private language schools (instead of just a few state owned ones), anybody can teach on their own (again impossible in a system with all entrepreneurship being illegal), and anybody can self teach with many more resources than just one coursebook.

-immigrants and tourists. They are another practice opportunity in various fields. Nowadays, there are immigrants speaking many languages in the Czech Republic. Truth be told, some nations are still widely underestimated and underserved. It is crazy that there is no single Vietnamese course widely available in the bookstores (while Nguyen is the third most common czech surname). But other than that, you can now have neighbours speaking various languages from all the corners of the world.

And much more.

So, no matter the problems that the changes have brought (mostly because the criminals and communists were the best prepared for the changes and profited from them immensely, often at the expense of the rest), I am extremely grateful the generation before me gave me this awesome gift!
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Gustav Aschenbach » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:32 am

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, some people nowadays tend to romanticize life behind the iron curtain. A certain kind of socialism has become very much en vogue (not to mention the new rise of nationalism that has been going on for the past few years, but that's another story).

With regard to language learning, there were interpreters for Western languages (French/English/...) in the German Democratic Republic that had been working as interpreters at the highest levels for decades before – after the fall of the wall – setting foot in a country for the first time where their working languages were actually spoken. I wonder how they attained such a high level without ever going abroad (and without having internet, access to movies etc. in the languages they were studying). I once asked a translator/interpreter who had received his education in the GDR and he just told me that he transcribed songs, read and participated in a kind of "summer language camps" where they were only allowed to speak in the foreign language in question. This is all the more interesting as translators in the GDR were supposed to translate INTO the foreign language as well ("Moscovian school", as opposed to translate just from it into their mother tongue – "Parisian school").
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Cavesa
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby Cavesa » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:45 pm

It is rather obvious what kinds of people (or what kinds of situations are the people in) romanticise those times.

During the communism, it was possible to learn a language. There was one coursebook for self teaching learners for many languages, there are people who managed to get a rather good level with that (but the problem was practicing and improving that knowledge). It was possible to get half legally private lessons. It was even possible (on a very limited scale), to join a class. However, it was considered a suspicious activity, unless the language was Russian and/or you were a communist.

It was possible to study a language at university, some translators are needed in any country in any regime. But getting to university was hard (especially due to the political background checks), getting to a humanities degree was even harder (and the quality was badly affected by lots of the professors being forced to do other jobs instead, such as washing windows or boilers operating,...). And studying languages a lot, including stays abroad, was reserved only for extremely trusted individuals. Such as our contemporary criminal prime minister, who was member of the secret police, worked abroad, and yesterday said that he "didn't know most people couldn't travel, nobody told him". Yeah, he speaks 6 languages and seems not to know lots of stuff about the real life.
...............
A language challenge for me: I need to write 15-20 pages of case description (it is not exactly a case study like for a science journal, the purpose and form is a bit different). My writing has always been much worse than my speaking. I have a lot of time for this, it is a final work for this year. This will be hard on so many levels :-D :-D :-D

I really feel like putting together a sort of a thematic personal dictionary. Hmm, why have I not seen any thematic dictionary for drivers on the market? Almost everybody drives a car these days. And we travel a lot. So, why is it not easy to find everything in one place, possibly in several languages? Basic car parts you touch and use, basic stuff that can go wrong and maintenance, basic verbs describing what you do as a driver, vocab related to the traffic regulations, etc. Car related issues are touched in the usual coursebooks, but very superficially and the subject is definitely underestimated all the time! Or some resources approach it from a totally weird angle, such as listing all the parts I don't know even in Czech but none of the verbs.

Adding to the long List of moments, in which I sounded like a total moron: Describing how to turn on and off the driving beam in my car :-D And even naming it. Les feux de route.

Not complete, but still useful:
https://www.lepermislibre.fr/permis-con ... s-conduite
https://www.lepermislibre.fr/permis-con ... ue-voiture
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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby rdearman » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:16 pm

I did a video on learning subject specific vocabulary. (Below). To collect free resources to gather up words you can use google search with filetype PDF, or DOCX, or other text formats. Then convert all of them into a text file: You can do that here: https://ebook.online-convert.com/ or use the ebook-convert command if you have Calibre installed.

Code: Select all

filetype:pdf informations sur le conducteur de l'apprenant


Then you can use the frequency programs I talk about in the video to remove common words.


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Re: A coffee addicted immigrant and company

Postby tiia » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:04 pm

Cavesa wrote:A language challenge for me: I need to write 15-20 pages of case description (it is not exactly a case study like for a science journal, the purpose and form is a bit different). My writing has always been much worse than my speaking. I have a lot of time for this, it is a final work for this year. This will be hard on so many levels :-D :-D :-D

I really feel like putting together a sort of a thematic personal dictionary. Hmm, why have I not seen any thematic dictionary for drivers on the market? Almost everybody drives a car these days. And we travel a lot. So, why is it not easy to find everything in one place, possibly in several languages? Basic car parts you touch and use, basic stuff that can go wrong and maintenance, basic verbs describing what you do as a driver, vocab related to the traffic regulations, etc. Car related issues are touched in the usual coursebooks, but very superficially and the subject is definitely underestimated all the time! Or some resources approach it from a totally weird angle, such as listing all the parts I don't know even in Czech but none of the verbs.

Adding to the long List of moments, in which I sounded like a total moron: Describing how to turn on and off the driving beam in my car :-D And even naming it. Les feux de route.


I think I totally know what you mean. Writing is still hard for me, especially because of the lack of verbs! Maybe I even know the verb already, but not, that this is the right one to use in a certain context. Orally you actually need less verbs, you can use your hands to make something clearer or just to point on directions etc. (Totally normal in my job, since we usually work with plans.) What we have to put on plans are substantives, numbers, arrows and lines. Verbs are rarely seen on a construction plan.
- But you need them as soon as you have to write in a real text* how things are supposed to function.

*"real text" because there are single sentences on the plans I'm making. But I can recycle those sentences thousands of times, so in fact 95% are just copy pasted (or retyped, if the original document doesn't allow copy pasting).


This is why I'm doing an evening course right now. We do quite something with verbs there. One weekly task is to choose an article that is interesting for us (and also includes some unknown words) and work with that:

1. Take about 5 unknown or difficult verbs. Write the form, who they appear in the text. Then write the infinitive. Third, write an example sentence. Best is to have funny example sentences, because they stick better.
2. Take about 5 other unknown/interesting words out of the text. Write the form how they appear in the text. Then the basic form and again an example sentence.
3. Look for any frases. If there are any, write them down, and make an example.
4. Discuss your article with a small group (3-4) of other learners.
5.Tell the other ones which unknown/important words there were for you. (Not all of them, just a few.)
6. Collect from each group maybe 1 word per article and share them with the rest of the class.


Steps 1-3 are done at home, steps 4-6 obviously in class. I personally think as a preparation for the discussion it is useful to write a very short summary at home, too. Collecting those unknown words is an advantage of doing this in the group, since everyone took another article and you get some more words and expressions that way.
Anyway, you do not necessarily need a group for that, since in any case you do the most important part at home alone.

Actually I had planned to write this in my own log, once the course is over....
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