What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:31 pm

Finished watching the first season of 花より男子 and I did enjoy it in a guilty pleasure kind of way. The ending is very Christmasy, which is ok in the middle of November. I'm now rooting around in Netflix to see if I can find a Japanese drama that's compelling enough to want to watch a few times so that I can take advantage of the bilingual subtitles and start nailing down a few things I can't catch through listening alone. Unfortunately, although there are some Japanese shows on there it's a bit of a desert compared to, say, Korean. I watched one episode of My Husband won't fit and yes, the clue to the subject matter is in the name and no, it is not a comedy. It was dire. I wish I could get a refund on the time spent watching it, but alas time doesn't work that way... Now I'm watching Scam$. Two episodes in and so far my feeling is I'm only watching it because it's in Japanese. It's not dire, but also not great, but I'm willing to stick with it for now and see how it goes. At worst, if I watch all the Japanese dramas on Netflix it's some kind of signal that there is demand in the UK for Japanese drama, so please go ahead and licence more of the good stuff, right?

Korean is going slowly, but it is still going. The first chapter of Ewha teaches you hangeul and from then on you are expected to read in hangeul only, there is no romanisation at all. Now back when I was learning Japanese, one of the attractions for Genki, which became my chosen textbook, was that the first two chapters taught you hiragana and katakana along with some of the basics of the language. Romanisation was used alongside the kana for those first two chapters, which really helped to get used to things before it was then taken away and you were expected to carry on using kana alone (and later on kanji). In particular, it was useful as I was self studying, to be able to read something in kana and then check straight away against the romanisation to ensure I was reading correctly. It's quite a challenge to not have any crutch in the form of romanisation, and to have to get up to speed with the writing system before learning to form any sentences. I don't think it's necessarily a bad approach - especially since Korean pronunciation has a whole bunch of challenges which could be confused even further if you learn a romanised system first and then convert to hangeul. But wow, it's making my brain work. But then, with Japanese, it took me a good few months to feel truly comfortable reading kana. It's just a fact of learning a new script, I think.
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eido
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby eido » Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:41 pm

gsbod wrote:First impression - there are lots of vowels which sound similar to other vowels, plus one vowel which sounds like it's pretty much impossible to pronounce.

I hate vowels. :lol:

Which vowel “seems impossible”?
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:10 pm

eido wrote:Which vowel “seems impossible”?


When I wrote that post, I was referring to 으. Since then I've also met 의 which seems harder still. But I shouldn't just complain about the vowels. I've just read that consonants come in three flavours: neutral, aspirated and tense. I was aware of the neutral/aspirated versions, but trying to figure out what is going on with the tense consonants is making me, well, tense...
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:10 pm

Definitely making some progress now with reading hangeul. Syllables with only two letters are now not giving me too much trouble - and I think a lot of the trouble I have had has stemmed from similarities between some letters and some katakana characters. So for example if I see something like 가 then the katakana フ comes to mind straight away, even though the consonant sound in フ doesn't even exist in Korean...

The compound vowels also slowed me down quite a lot, until I realised that if you read them as two vowels (rather than a compound) you'll end up with something close enough to trigger recall of how they are supposed to be pronounced, with the exception of 외 - however since there is only one exception that's easy enough to deal with.

Learning to spell is going to take a bit longer but I can do that hand in hand with learning vocabulary.
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Re: Und was jetzt? (DE|JP|KO|_?)

Postby gsbod » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:50 pm

Going to go for a language by language update here to try and make a bit more sense, because this is turning into a long post.

German
I finished reading Berlin Prepper by Johannes Groschupf, which was quite a good contemporary thriller. Walter Noack has been a prepper since getting spooked by Chernobyl and the Cold War in the 1980s and you could probably describe him as a harmless eccentric. He takes a job as a moderator of the comments pages for a major news corporation (which is never named, but clearly based on Axel Springer / Bild), meaning day in day out he is dealing with a barrage of online hate, and he ends up getting mixed up with some really nasty people. It's morally ambiguous, and makes Berlin seem a whole lot more dangerous a place than it actually is, but it is nevertheless a well written thriller. It's also helped me expand my vocabulary of German swear words, so bonus points for that.

Still, after the grit of that and the Arjouni book I read a few weeks ago, the next book I read in German needs to not be a thriller.

Japanese
I'm still trying to figure out where I'm at and where I want to be with Japanese. Being a false intermediate (as opposed to false beginner) is always quite a tricky place. Things which seem too hard can very rapidly feel too easy. There's also a big disconnect between my comprehension and production skills, but I'm also not very motivated to work on production skills due to lack of opportunity to use them. There's also a big disconnect between my comprehension skills and the skills needed to comfortably understand radio podcasts and novels, which is more motivating to deal with, I just don't quite know how.

On a more positive note, in a moment of self doubt about whether my beginner level knowledge was sufficiently grounded, I had a look through the contents page for Genki I and Genki II on the official website for the series (I gave my own copies to a charity shop long ago) and was reassured that I knew and understood every single grammar pattern listed.

I gave up on Scam$ on Netflix after the third episode. The final straw was the groping, which was both unnecessary and gross.

Korean
I think with picking up Korean, it may be the first time I've approached a language with no expectations, ambitions, or points to prove. I'm not trying to do it the best way, or the quickest way. I've not got a grand plan. I'm not thinking about it before I go to bed at night. I don't care if you think my Korean sucks (it does, by the way).

Maybe it helps that I had to order the Ewha textbooks from Germany (www.koreanbook.de, the shipping cost stings but very pleased with the service). It took just over a week for the books to arrive, by which time any fire of early overenthusiasm was already burned out.

I'm also very aware of the lack of opportunities relative to other languages I've studied. There are no local classes, no conversation groups. If I want to buy more books, I'll probably have to get them from Germany again. I'm ok with that. And Korean drama is pretty accessible (unless it goes out of fashion...)

Now I'm just being sustained by curiosity - I'm curious about the similarities and differences between Japanese and Korean, and I'm also curious as to how Koreans teach Korean. That's good enough for now.
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Re: Und was jetzt? (DE|JP|KO|_?)

Postby gsbod » Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:23 pm

Since I usually put together some kind of end of the year post I have been trying to compose something, but this year is a difficult one. The pandemic has hammered everyone, one way or another, and it's still not over. I've also had a really tough year at work, something I wish I could blame wholly on the pandemic, but there are other factors involved there too. I'm feeling very up and down at the moment. On the worst days I feel like I don't even know what is important, or even what is fun any more. Fortunately I don't feel like that every day.

In terms of languages, whilst I still am very much interested in languages in general, I've not really been able to focus on any proper, long term language projects, and instead I've been dabbling with various languages, at various levels of ability, throughout the year. Whereas once this may have been seen as something of a weakness, or at least a waste of time if the goal is to actually master something, I suppose this year has been different. I've picked up enough Welsh to actually understand fragments occasionally (always a bit of a jolt when that happens). I warmed up Spanish a little, it's getting cold again but I'm not too worried about that. I've seen how well my Japanese has stood up to several years of neglect - despite a fair bit of friction to start with, it ended up coming back quicker and more thoroughly than expected, leading me to once again think that maintenance for its own sake is overrated (see also French). I've also enjoyed a little no pressure exploration of Korean, even if I have yet to completely master hangeul. It will still be there when I'm ready for it.

I've also realised that as much as I love the idea of learning languages to immerse myself in literature and culture from the comfort of my own home, after nearly two years of not going to language cafés, meetups, or travelling abroad, I really miss proper, face to face conversations. I have attended virtual meetups and classes, and in the case of the classes it's fair to say that even in normal times a face to face alternative wouldn't have been available, but I have just become very weary of zoom calls and the like. I'm sick of seeing my webcam face looking back at me, and sick of the awkwardness of online group calls. There is a buzz you get from a real life conversation that, at least for me, can't be replicated through technology.

As for next year, no major plans as of yet, although I'm hoping the situation improves enough that I can actually get some decent face to face conversations at some point. I'm sure I'll keep up German one way or another, I certainly have plenty of books to read. And I'll make no apologies for any further dabbling.
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt? (DE|JP|KO|_?)

Postby gsbod » Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:22 pm

So it's three months into 2022 already and finally, some kind of update from me!

Things are sort of back to normal, but also sort of not. I'm still working from home and starting to suspect that may become a permanent arrangement, which I have mixed feelings about. However, the prospect of working from home without having to stay at home the rest of the time is a whole lot more appealing than the arrangements in 2020/21.

Also, with a little bit of a distance from 2021, I'm starting to get more perspective on exactly how bad a year it was - with the positive being that this year so far has already been a whole lot better.

Anyway, at the start of the year I decided two things. Firstly, after nearly two years of almost all working and socialising happening online, I was absolutely fed up of it. So since January, I haven't done any social Zoom calls or online classes, or anything involving looking at my own face on a screen while trying to communicate with others. Altogether much easier to do and quite beneficial now I am able to socialise with people in person again! Secondly, after spending all day sat at my desk at home working, the last thing I've wanted to do is then spend my evenings sat at the same desk studying. So no language study for me since January either.

But I seem to be happier. Still not quite where I'd like to be, but at least things are improving.

I just need to finish reading a couple of books I've had on the go for ages so that I have something more positively language related to write about here.
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Re: Und was jetzt? (DE|JP|KO|_?)

Postby gsbod » Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:09 pm

So I've started studying some Japanese again :D Not sure how long I'll keep it up for, but also not sure that it matters.

I am hoping to be able to move house some time later this year and in preparation I've been doing a bit of clearing out. I'm no fan of the Mari Kondo approach, but I know the less I have to carry when I move house, the easier it will be. Which led me to seriously ask myself the question: do I still need to hold on to my Japanese books?

I have already cleared out quite a lot of books bought previously - mainly textbooks I've grown out of and childrens books I never really got into. What I am left with is a bunch of textbooks mostly focusing on a single skill and mostly JLPT prep books for N3, N2, and a couple for N1, along with some novels, short story collections and manga which are too hard for me, and よつばと! which is just the right level for reading without having to reach for a dictionary unless I really want to.

After clearing out a few other (unrelated) books I rearranged my shelves to find my maths books and Japanese textbooks sharing the same shelf and thought to myself "well, that's a shelf of broken dreams", but then I decided that wouldn't do, and since I'm currently feeling more love for languages than maths, it makes sense to give Japanese another go. If it doesn't work out, maybe it is time to pass on the books to somebody who needs them more. We'll see.

Anyway, back to those broken dreams. My biggest regret with Japanese is not ever reaching a comfortable enough level to read contemporary literature. Nothing too highbrow, I'd be very happy to be able to read maybe a couple of crime novels/thrillers a year. Not least because whilst there are barriers to maintaining/improving my listening and speaking (I have nobody to talk to and accessing dramas I'd actually want to watch is increasingly impossible), I still have options for getting hold of Japanese books.

I'm still not that keen on doing a lot of desk study, but I think I can do something meaningful in around 30 minutes a day, which is tolerable. Followed up with 30 minutes reading, which I can do in my comfy chair anyway, so no complaints there. And still plenty of time to read other stuff in German afterwards, which isn't even studying any more. Or English.

The last couple of days I've started working through 新完全マスターN3漢字 and N3読解 on rotation which feels like a useful approach given my goal of reading comprehension and the quality of the texts (in both cases, I think they offer a lot more than just JLPT test prep). Tomorrow I'll take a look at 新完全マスターN3文法. In the past, I haven't gotten on so well with the 文法 books but I wonder if I'll find it more useful if I approach it solely from a grammar for comprehension perspective, rather than grammar for active use/grammar for passing tests. I'll have a go and report back later.

One thing I am not doing is Anki (apparently real polyglots don't?). I've got a vocabulary notebook to take notes when I look up words/phrases in my study sessions. So my study plan is about 95% improving comprehension, and 5% note taking (something I did find useful in my Japanese dabble last year).

My word/phrase of the week is: 貝を拾う
I am reading: よつばと!2
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt? (DE|JP|KO|_?)

Postby gsbod » Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:11 pm

gsbod wrote:I'm still not that keen on doing a lot of desk study, but I think I can do something meaningful in around 30 minutes a day, which is tolerable.


It turns out that 30 minutes desk study is only tolerable if I've been working a standard 8 hour day. And unfortunately this last week I've had to do a fair bit of overtime.

And then on Monday I went to see my first live band since before the pandemic, which is not so much an excuse not to study, as a really good reason. I've had tickets since 2020, but the show had to be postponed a couple of times. It was worth the wait, I've missed live music so much...

Anyway, in the small amount of study I have done this week, I covered a chapter and a bit from the New Kanzen Master N3 grammar book before deciding that it's not the best resource for me right now. I think it could be useful later on if I want to try and mop up a few grammar things so I'll keep hold of it for now, but for the time being I think the best thing would be to prioritise the New Kanzen Master N3 reading book to fit with my goal of reading.

My word/phrase of the week is: 練習を重ねる (even if it's not something I've been doing)
I am still reading: よつばと!2
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt? (DE|JP|KO|_?)

Postby gsbod » Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:58 pm

I'm all but ready to give up on Japanese (again). I'm finding myself procrastinating Japanese, which is turning into procrastinating everything. New doubts are creeping in - the best one being that the things I wanted to read in Japanese when I first got myself to intermediate level over a decade ago are not necessarily the things I want to read now. For example, I loved Ai Yazawa's stuff as a 20-something in the 00s, but it's not necessarily the thing for me now I'm approaching middle age. Also I have literally over 100 books in English and German I'd rather be reading than よつばと! right now. I love the artwork but the stories are a little, well, dull. It's good as a stepping stone to more advanced stuff, but what would I be aiming for anyway?

Anyway, I've managed to get rid of a load of genuine junk in the back room over the last couple of weeks which leaves more than enough room for me to hang onto my Japanese books for the time being.

I expect more vacillating as I'm getting used to life post COVID anyway. (Not that COVID has gone away, but the restrictions we saw through 2020-2021 are not likely to come back...but there is still some uncertainty, which is also part of the story). It's a question of getting used to what's possible again, I think. And how living through such a traumatic time has changed you, and to what extent those changes are permanent.

If anyone is reading with an interest in Russian and/or Finnish, I watched the film Compartment No. 6 at the cinema this week (first cinema trip in over 2 years, yay!). It's a Finnish film but set on a train in Russia in the 90s, so the majority of the dialogue is in Russian. I quite enjoyed it, probably because I love trains and I am nostalgic for the 90s...
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