What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

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gsbod
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:23 pm

Another good week, I think.

I didn't do any independent grammar study, but I caught up on the Spanish class I missed last week which turned out to be quite grammar heavy anyway, so I feel like I've had a good grammar week regardless!

I've ticked off another Destinos episode and listened to another Spanish for False Beginners podcast. I'm getting better at picking up past tense verbs. I've also started to notice how even in the "normal speech" parts of Destinos, they generally actually speak quite slowly.

I'm going away for a few days for a family gathering. I've decided to plan a complete break from Spanish, rather than trying to squeeze bits of study in here and there while I'm away. Also my Ankiweb account has been deactivated through lack of use and I really can't be bothered to set it up again. I'm happy just to keep my deck on my PC. And then I should come back nicely motivated to study some more after the break!
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:18 pm

As planned, I haven't studied much this week. But I had a lovely few days away catching up with family, so it was worth it. And then I had another couple of days at home where I was too tired from going away to do very much. But I'm back now :)

My Anki deck is so small it really wasn't an effort to get caught up again after the break.

I've just watched the next episode of Destinos.

And now I'm ready for more!
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gsbod
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:09 am

Two posts in one day, but I want to leave this here because I'll have forgotten the details by this time next week! I ended up falling down a Youtube rabbit hole, but it was a productive one as I was looking for half decent Spanish content aimed at learners, and ended up watching a video entitled Se puede aprender español en 3 meses, which I'll just link to rather than embedding the video. It's nearly 40 minutes long, and it's basically a discussion, almost all in Spanish, between a native Spanish Spanish teacher based in the UK and a native English English teacher based in Spain. I was able to understand pretty much all of it, which was a nice surprise (but maybe it helps that it's on the oh so familiar topic of language learning). Anyway, it feels like my comprehension has taken a sudden jump, which is nice.

Also I found myself nodding in agreement at a number of points they discussed, which is the main reason for posting it here. For example, how it takes several years (if at all) to get a language to native speaker level, but actually this doesn't matter because you don't need to have such a high level in order to enjoy the benefits of learning a language. And the problem with language textbooks being oriented towards specific exam curricula, meaning that there is an overemphasis on topics that come up in the exam but aren't necessarily important to how you are actually going to use the language and don't necessarily even reflect real life usage (the example they gave was giving/asking for directions). And the way that grammar cannot always be rationalised, so rather than getting hung up on asking "why?" when something doesn't fit your expectations, you just have to accept that this is the way something is said, and start using it until you get used to it!
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:12 pm

Thinking I need to read up on my Spanish pronouns, I found this gem of a statement in my copy of Routledge's New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish:

"The strangest feature of Spanish object pronouns for English speakers is the vagueness of their meanings. Spanish object pronouns merely indicate the person or thing 'affected' in some way by a verb phrase, but they do not themselves show how the object is affected: this must be worked out from the meaning of the verb, from context or by common sense".

Oh I am missing German so much. Even in Japanese, which is notorious for dropping nouns/pronouns entirely, if a pronoun is important enough to be used, you'll usually get a particle with it to tell you why it's there...

It certainly explains some of my confusion. That and the use of lo/la/le/se.
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby tractor » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:27 pm

I had a teacher who said that after writing her doctoral thesis on Spanish object pronouns she was more confused than ever.
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:50 pm

It feels like listening to Spanish is starting to click now. I must be weird, but for me, once I've reached the point where I can "tune in" to a language, I'm sure I find listening easier than reading. That's not to say that my listening is brilliant...rather that it takes less effort for me to understand say, an A2 level recording than an A2 level written text. The only exception so far has been French, which I just struggle to tune into...

I've been watching more of the Español con Juan videos on Youtube. There is a Nivel 1 playlist I have started working my way through, which says it's around A2. They're all 10-15 minutes long and seem to feature Juan talking a lot about various everyday themes (like, how to lay the table, say) with a massive dose of weird teacher humour and occasionally shaky camera work. I'm quite enjoying it.

I'm up to lesson 10 in Destinos. I can't remember if I've seen that one before, but either way I'm obviously heading into unfamiliar territory now, which is nice. 1 lesson a week is definitely the right kind of pace, since the episodes do ramp up in difficulty. As long as I'm keeping up with this at that pace, I know I'm doing ok.

After my post the other day about object pronouns I've started reviewing these more thoroughly using the exercises in Gramática de uso del español, which I'm sure will be useful. I've fallen behind on my grand plan to review other grammar topics, but this is counterbalanced by the fact that over the last couple of weeks we've covered two tenses in my Spanish class, one of which was completely new to me.

Also I'm excited already because I've got a trip booked to London in May so I'm already thinking about my wish list for when I visit Foyles and the European Bookshop.
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:26 pm

gsbod wrote:
Also I'm excited already because I've got a trip booked to London in May so I'm already thinking about my wish list for when I visit Foyles and the European Bookshop.
The Cervantes Institute has a blog, perhaps there's a Spanish themed event that will coincide with your visit?

https://londres.cervantes.es/en/default.shtm

https://blogs.cervantes.es/londres/
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gsbod
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:49 pm

I've been shopping. Well, online shopping. I've now got enough grammar books to see me to B2.

I had to give up on my study of indirect object pronouns, because in all the grammar books I have, that chapter assumes you already have more facility with past tenses, in particular the preterito indefinido, than I do at present. So I've had to face up to it and get cracking on the preterito indefinido, starting with regular verbs earlier this week. In the mean time I'm also keeping a look out for direct object pronouns (which I have studied now) and opportunities to use them.

My studying has ground to a halt a bit over the last couple of days though. I'm a bit under the weather... Well enough to go to work, not well enough to enjoy my evenings. Never mind, hopefully I'll feel better by the weekend. Think I may even have to put off the joy of Destinos for a day or two.
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:36 pm

gsbod wrote:My studying has ground to a halt a bit over the last couple of days though. I'm a bit under the weather... Well enough to go to work, not well enough to enjoy my evenings. Never mind, hopefully I'll feel better by the weekend. Think I may even have to put off the joy of Destinos for a day or two.
Get well soon!
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Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

gsbod
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Re: What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

Postby gsbod » Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:04 pm

Thanks MorkTheFiddle! I'm feeling a lot better today.

I wanted to write more in my update on Thursday but wasn't really up to it. So I'll add my thoughts now.

Firstly, as I said, I did some book shopping. Mainly because it looks like some of the Anaya books and the Gramática de uso del español B level book are getting harder to get hold of (at least in the UK), so I thought it would be good to stock up now while I can as I like both of them. So I'm now sorted with both series on the grammar books up to B2. I also got the Schaum's Spanish Grammar book, my thoughts being that it might be useful to have something with explanations where English is the default comparison, and also it would be helpful to have a load of extra exercises I could dip into for extra practice, particular on verb forms.

Now I've started to really go for it on the preterito indefinido, I think this was a good shout. The Anaya book covers both regular and irregular forms in the same chapter. In GdUdE, you get one page of exercises on regular, and one on irregular. I needed more just to get used to the regular verb forms, which Schaum's has given me. I'll start looking at irregular verb forms this week. I also had a look at Linguno, which a few people have mentioned here. As far as app based learning is concerned, it looks like one of the better ones. But it's not for me - I think I just don't like learning through apps and I don't like SRSing other people's material.

The other thing I wanted to mention was how fed up I am becoming with CEFR and CEFR oriented textbooks. I'm starting to feel quite bored by the whole set up. I think it's due to the assumptions at the heart of CEFR, and also those tasked with making materials and teaching exams aligned with it, in terms of what their ideal student looks like, why they are studying, and what they need to be able to do at different levels. I'm not interested in being able to give my superficial limited opinion at a basic level about things because they might be tested on an exam I'll probably never take. I don't want to role play scenarios in A2 level language (or, for that matter, B1 or B2 level) that bear no resemblance to conversations I actually have in real life. Also, you know you have firmly hit middle age when you are older than all the people pictured in your language textbooks. Ugh.

I guess I just want a course that introduces grammar and usage in a logical, coherent and progressive way, with plenty of exercises. I think what I'm doing at the moment by taking my own grammar-based approach and supplementing with other materials will probably work just fine, however I feel like I'm juggling a lot in my head and it would be easier if all I had to do was pick up a textbook and turn to the next page.

And the other thing that is bothering my is how my motivation for Spanish is really weird compared to other languages I've studied. Basically, I'm only doing it for the social aspect of going to class - it really is the friendliest class I've ever attended. I could basically just turn up to class and do my homework and I'd be covered there. But since I'm not like that when it comes to languages, I find myself doing a lot extra anyway. But I'm not sure why?
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