What next? (learning Spanish, maintaining German, random dabbling...)

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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:33 pm

At what point do you decide to stop reading a book?

I rarely have this dilemma when I read in my native English any more, I think because I understand that whilst there are books which are objectively just bad, a lot of books that I give up on are not bad books, just the wrong book, at the wrong time. And since there's not enough time to read the right books, I don't want to waste time on the wrong books.

However, if I'm reading something in a language I am learning, I find it a lot harder to quit. There are books which are obviously still too hard, and I'm happy to put these back on the shelf "for later", but when it comes to books that feel wrong (or are even, actually, objectively bad), I am much more likely to persevere. Because even a bad book is going to help me learn the language, so it's not a waste of time, right?

Except each time I do persevere, it's not like I feel a great sense of achievement at the end of it.
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:42 pm

The one German book I really did give up on (with no regrets) was Das große Los - there was just something so self congratulatory about it that really wound me up.

The dilemma I have now is with a Krimi called Tödliche Sonate. It's all about a murder that takes place within the classical music world of Rome, written by a professional violinist, and, in theory, should tick all the boxes for me. Italy, music, murder, what more do you need? The problem is that I think the book has been sold on the concept rather than the content, which is just so cliché-ridden it's ridiculous.

Yes, I think I should put it down and find something better to read!
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:39 pm

I read this article in the Guardian a couple of days ago. The article itself is already a few weeks old, however somehow it touched a nerve.

The thing that really did hit me in the article above was a quote from mathemetician Carl Friedrich Gauss: "It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment." I did a bit of digging around on the German internet to find the German version, which I've now added to my signature: „Wahrlich es ist nicht das Wissen, sondern das Lernen, nicht das Besitzen, sondern das Erwerben, nicht das Da-Seyn, sondern das Hinkommen, was den grössten Genuss gewährt.“ I do love how in the commonly quoted English translation, the translator decided it wasn't worth their effort to even attempt to translate "Da-Seyn".

I've never really been motivated by money, or at least, once I was earning enough to live comfortably I saw little point in striving to earn even more - however I have to confess I have probably treated the accumulation of knowledge the same way a good capitalist treats the accumulation of wealth. You know, forever making up for perceived underachievements earlier on my life by constantly trying to collect knowledge, or at least a long list of knowledge-related "achievements", in a way that will somehow prove that I'm the better person. But ultimately, it's not leading me to happiness. It's such a damn shame that rather than focusing on the sense of empowerment I felt from actually being able to do the maths whilst I was studying my course last year, I'm just overcome with disappointment over what a let down the exam was.

(I also love how I'm trusting these internet quote pages because there's no way I'm actually going to get my hands on a printed collection of Gauss's letters to cross-reference. But hey, if the quote fits...)
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:40 pm

I really wanted to do some kind of face to face course this autumn, just to have a reason to leave the house more than anything else. Unfortunately a couple of craft courses I had my eye on became fully booked up more quickly than I was expecting, and in terms of language courses the local providers are still mostly offering online courses and not really in the right combination of language and level to be of interest to me anyway.

So I decided to take advantage of possibly the one benefit of these uncertain times, and registered with an online language course for advanced German that would normally have taken place at a college too far away from here for me to take part. And it was awesome. I actually really like taking courses at a properly advanced level (i.e. C1 or above), because you can actually have a proper conversation with your classmates and everyone knows the deal because they've already made the effort to get to the advanced levels themselves. It also feels like there is more of a levelling out in terms of ability - it's not so much that some students are significantly stronger or weaker than the others, but rather everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses so you can help each other out accordingly.

Prior to the class I was a bit worried about exactly how rusty my German might be, given that I'd not really spoken any German for ages, but apart from mangling a couple of bits of grammar and going blank on what should have been one bit of really basic vocabulary (which I then recalled after doing the whole circumlocution thing) I managed to hold my own reasonably enough. I've still got it. :lol:

And now I'm looking at the SOAS Language Centre website, who are also offering all their part time language courses online this year, including possibly the only offer of Japanese at proper advanced levels in the UK, but I suspect that would be a commitment too far. Still, I hope it continues (but not at the expense of face to face delivery for people who can actually travel there, of course).
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:16 pm

I took an intensive Chinese course at SOAS twenty years ago. They are *so* good. Really high standard of language teaching. A great experience. I hope that extends to their current online options.
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Grammaire progressive du français -
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Grammaire progressive du francais -
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Pimsleur French 1-5
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:43 pm

Lawyer&Mom wrote:I took an intensive Chinese course at SOAS twenty years ago. They are *so* good. Really high standard of language teaching. A great experience. I hope that extends to their current online options.


It's a shame there are no other compelling reasons (for me) to move to London! Otherwise I think I'd be learning *all* the languages. Given everything else they offer, why stop at Japanese?

The one thing putting me off doing a Japanese course, other than the fact that I would probably be stupidly overextending myself, is that right now it would be pretty much impossible for me to do a proper level check, and this is something that SOAS insist on before you join one of their courses - unlike a lot of UK providers of part time courses for adults. It's something I approve of in general, just a bit tricky for where I'm at now. According to their level check, if you have passed N2 you should go straight to the most advanced course they offer - however my N2 was years ago and hasn't been maintained. I know from other languages that I've allowed to go dormant, you need a good few days to refresh yourself before you can really tell where you are at. There's probably not enough time for me to do this prior to the course starting...and given that I don't really have time for it, it's probably not the right time in general. Oh... but it would be fun! (And the Spotify playlist I'm listening to has started playing Joe Hisaishi, so even the internet is telling me to do it...)
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:20 pm

So I've started refreshing my Japanese (again)!

I am not going to do a course this autumn, however. Instead, I'm going to try and learn from my stalled attempt to start reading again a couple of months ago, but also from everything I've learned about language learning from my experiences with German and French (at least, the French study I did after I learned Japanese). And from my experiences learning maths last year, and the resulting shift in my attitude towards learning and testing in general.

I also accept there is a strong possibility this will go the same way that all my other little language projects have gone this year (apart from reading German books, which is I guess a minor success story). But at least that gives me something to log about.

The main thing is, I need this not to become stressful or weirdly obsessive, and I also need for it not to interfere with keeping my German sharp. Actually, if I make a success of studying one language while actively maintaining another, that would be a very big success story for me, as I tend to be a one language at a time person even though I dream of all the languages all the time!

For now, to try to keep the stress element low, I am starting "easy". The great thing about the French course I did last year was that it included a review of all the main grammar up to B1. I managed to get the 新完全マスター N4 grammar book for a reasonable price from a third party seller on amazon.co.uk which should help refresh the foundation (and hopefully address some of the tension I found during my reading project earlier this year). The really reassuring thing is that the book starts with a section on all the main verb forms. It turns out that things like -te form and -masu form are as burned into my brain as the passé composé is with French.

The other thing I've started doing is working through Basic Kanji Book Vol. 1, that is right from the very beginning, but treating it very much as revision rather than having to study and memorise it thoroughly - so I'm making sure I still remember the right stroke order for the kanji by writing them out a few times and then I do the exercises and move on.

I am also emphasising hand written notes, rather than relying on the computer to be my notebook. A notebook and pencil was possibly the most important tool for me learning German. I don't want to have to go back to relying on Anki as my notebook just because of the additional mental burden of handwriting Japanese at the intermediate and advanced levels, and so I am tring to reduce the burden by getting used to writing notes again at the beginner level.

In fact, I don't want to use Anki at all - because I don't have to learn all the things, become obsessive, pass all the exams, and do it really quickly to prove how awesome I am - and I just don't want to be tied to studying a list of whatever every day scheduled by some algorithm.
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:21 pm

It's been a tiring week at work with some late finishes due to planned events. I was able to finish a bit earlier today, however, and then spent a good hour reacquainting myself with the stroke order to write a number of common kanji.

However, after too much time in general at my desk this week (thank you, home working), after an hour of the kanji work my back said "nope, I've had enough!"

So here I am, sat on a more comfortable chair and thinking maybe all the desk work to revive my kanji writing ability is not worth it after all...
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:03 pm

This morning I went back to 新完全マスターN4文法 and practiced a few more verb forms.

Unlike the 新完全マスター books for N3 and higher, the N4 book only uses kanji for words where these are expected to be tested at N5 or N4 level. This means a lot of words are written in hiragana alone, so example sentences also have spaces to aid legibility...which for me actually makes things harder to read! On the plus side, it means that when I'm writing out answers, I only have to worry about how to write a handful of the most common kanji, which keeps more mental capacity free to think about the nuts and bolts of the language.

Still not sure if this is all going to be worth it though, I'm feeling a bit bored. But then practicing verb forms in Japanese isn't very interesting anyway - because they're mostly so regular!
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gsbod
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Re: Und was jetzt?

Postby gsbod » Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:53 pm

I managed to complete the whole section on verb forms. It's quite a useful place to start an N4 practice book actually, as it runs through all the main verb forms. The focus is on how to make the verb forms, rather than the usage, which is covered later in the book (but for anyone using the book this should all be revision anyway). It usefully jogged my memory that the ~ば conditional form for verbs and i-adjectives has the same meaning as the ~なら conditional form for nouns and na-adjectives. And then it finished with sections on passive, causative and causative-passive, which is such a tongue twister in its formation that it's anything but boring.

I wouldn't mind doing some audio drills on the last three actually, although I don't think it's worth me getting any additional resources just to do this...
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