Was learning Korean, now I'm doing Mandarin. The hard way of course.

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kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
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Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby kraemder » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:24 am



I'm looking at the first video link and I'm very impressed. I haven't met a teacher on iTalki who can speak like that. Of course it may be scripted. I'm trying to figure out how their system works.

Class duration/Number of lectures
60 days / 23 lessons

Does this mean I have to finish all the lessons in 60 days or pay again? Anyway, I'll sleep on it at least and look at the other links. Thanks so much!
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kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 341

Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby kraemder » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:42 am

I had two more iTalki lessons today. Both went better than the last one - I wonder if the previous tutor would do a lot better with some feedback on how I want him to teach but I'm not sure. Anyway, I had a 1 PM lesson for just $10.00. It turns out she's in the US staying with her husband who is studying at a University (maybe for a graduate degree I forget) and she's just doing volunteer work and teaching Korean online when she gets lessons but it seems the amount of lessons isn't enough to become a full time deal. Which means she isn't burning herself out teaching like I was in Japan. Anyway, I really enjoyed the lesson. She speaks a very high level of English I would say but she didn't know the word Goblin. So I taught her that. And we spoke a lot more Korean than I did yesterday. It was a lot like a language exchange which I have pretty often in Japanese on apps but she was all focused on me. I would have liked her to speak even less English maybe but I can't complain she definitely went out of her way to speak lots and lots of Korean to me and it was super helpful. Then in the evening I had a lesson with my previous tutor I had stuck with back in the fall and have had several lessons with already. She was the same as always and I really enjoyed that lesson too. She mixes English and Korean as we go saying most things in both English and Korean so I definitely feel like I get a lot of Korean practice and she does practice role plays with me etc. too. It's quite nice. But she doesn't explain things to me in Korean like the teacher in the videos above. I don't know if she does that for more advanced students or not. Either way it was a good lesson.

I went out and bought a note three subject spiral notebook from Walgreens after the lesson. Writing about how I used to study German back in the day got me nostalgic I think and I am going to give that a go. Just a notebook with Korean on the left and English or hanja or even Japanese on the right. The third subject I'm putting example sentences that could be taken from anywhere. I wrote a few phrases from Goblin tonight and then a couple example grammar sentences. Five sentences total I think. I filled up a whole page of vocabulary from my dictionary list on my phone. I know I did this method sort of already but it was using really small notebooks. Anyway, at that time I decided I wanted to go back to Anki instead of just doing lists in a notebook but here I am trying this again. I know Anki has some definite pros - the biggest one being the ability to add native audio to cards. But the more I watch k-drama or YouTube the less important getting listening practice from Anki will be.

Also, I found out that my pronunciation of 취미 (hobby) isn't very good. Both of my tutors whom I said it to failed to understand me until I used English. After they knew what I meant if I said it again they got it but clearly that isn't how I want my conversations to go in real life. It's the first vowel combination I think that is making it hard to understand. I group it with 최 in my head and say them the same. I don't think I can hear a difference between these two spellings and thought that the context would be good enough but it doesn't seem to be working out that way. And this is a pretty common word to use when you're meeting foreigners from another country. I'll definitely work on it.
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AnneL
Yellow Belt
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:34 pm
Languages: By order of when I started learning:
French (N)
English (C2+fluent)
German (B1)
Spanish (A2)
Italian (A2)
Korean (A2) damn hard to reach any level, 18 months studying
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Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby AnneL » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:06 pm

kraemder wrote:
ロータス wrote:Korean in Korean
https://www.mastertopik.com/index.asp



I've got to say I'm not really impressed with MasterTopik. Like you I'd seen that the videos after the beginner level, were in Korean only. The videos you can see for free seem great, you think you're going to learn new stuff, but actually, for most of the expressions and words that they use, that I do not already know, in the other paid for videos, the teacher just waits a second, does an mmm... sound, like we know what the word means, and then just goes on! Things are not explained properly, as if the teacher was unable to realise that the expression or word needed explanation.

So I know, it seems exciting, you're thinking, awesome, that's a full list of stuff organised for me, but in the end you will have to spend time online to research on the explanations that are missing in the class for you to actually understand the expression you are learning.

Plus you *have* to use Internet Explorer on Windows to just about get a 100% read on the video the first time round (it's needed to get the additional 6 months) because the player doesn't work well on other devices. You can still use it on Android/iPad, but any issue, they just tell you you have to use IE on windows... it's 2020 FFS. Also this player I've been told will prevent you form recording the videos (inc from screen recorders) so don't think it'll be easy to just keep the videos for later.

That said, if you like being really lazy, you can just listen, grab what you want from a video and are ok with not understanding the lacking explanations, it's better than nothing. They also send you textbooks separate from the video classes, that are great because again it's mostly in Korean, it's got colours and it reaches a fairly high level - I am starting using them to check the level of my current comprehension, and see if I can learn words from context at my current level. The cost of shipping is insane, but they reach you in 10 days in Europe, and they're exciting shiny new things. All in all (this post has become a review now!) I don't regret too much buying the course (considering the cost of going to local classes and the fact that you can jump level any time, perfect for self-learners), but know that you will get frustrated with a few things... The free videos made me imagine much better than what the videos are in reality.
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10000 Morphman morphemes KOREAN : 10000 / 10000 11/2018->08/2020
365 2020 challenge: day missed 0 (updated:23/August/20)

kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 341

Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby kraemder » Fri May 08, 2020 12:53 am

I'm still plugging along at Korean. I made an update to my Korean vlog if you like watching videos but I do ramble a bit and there was no editing:

https://youtu.be/FkX7QwXvgpM

This whole virus thing has turned many people's world upside down I'm sure and on the face of it, being home all day you have more opportunity to self study languages etc. Well that wasn't the case for me. I mean sure, I had more opportunity to self study but mentally I was not at all in a place where I could easily sit down and focus on Korean. Maybe I could have done so with Japanese since I basically do the same things in Japanese that I do in English but Korean is not at all there. I would try to study Korean but it was very much a struggle. It's getting better recently though although the world isn't normal yet. When it's normal maybe I can -go- to Korean right?

So basically the benefit of taking a Korean class mostly dried up when it went online. I am not seeing anyone in person and the video conferencing tool we have is adequate but not great and we're limited in what activities we can do. I really dislike it. Even though all the material was review and we spoke almost no Korean in class, despite that, after class I felt motivated to go home and study. Just being with other people interested in Korean did that for me. But this online class does not. It's almost done though.

Rosetta Stone is offering free group lessons for current subscribers right now. I really like the Rosetta Stone lessons because the teacher is supposed to only use your target language no matter how much you stink. They break that rule a little bit sometimes but sometimes you still get a beginner lesson all in your target language. Because they use so many pictures you can actually do a lesson that makes sense with terrible beginner level Korean.

I think that Rosetta Stone sentences have been the most helpful for me in terms making me a little bit conversational. I really want to spend more time on Rosetta Stone to finish the course and review the material enough that it sticks in place. This would get me to a solid A2 and ready to study B1 material level I think.

With Korean I'm really struggling because unlike when I studied Japanese I am not 'forgetting' my other foreign languages and focusing 100% on Korean. I'm still using Japanese quite a bit even though I'm not really studying it. This hurts the immersion effect I think where your brain is kind of thinking in or about Korean a lot even when you're not studying because that's all you really do. I'm wondering how other learners do it. Maybe I should really do my best to not think about Japanese unless I'm literally having a conversation and using it? Oh well.

I feel like I'm definitely struggling to learn new grammar in Korean. I have at least read through all of Korean Grammar in Use for beginners but I haven't absorbed the later structures yet. They don't come up as much I guess. Certainly not in Rosetta Stone. I really wonder how far Rosetta Stone goes.
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ロータス
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:33 pm
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Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby ロータス » Fri May 08, 2020 4:06 am

It is nice to see someone have nice things to say about Rosetta Stone. I also enjoy it's sentences and am learning a lot with just them. They do a great job of introducing new grammar with words you know first then adding the new words with the new grammar.

Did you add all the sentences to Anki? picture +audio? I couldn't be bothered to get them so just use the sentences with TTS.
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eido
Brown Belt
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
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Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby eido » Fri May 08, 2020 5:34 pm

"취미" is pronounced pretty simply.

"우" and "이" make a dipththong, so you get a "w" sound. "Chwi mi," [chwee-mee] in short. When you get compound vowel blocks like that, they're always dipththong-like constructs.
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kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 341

Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby kraemder » Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 am

ロータス wrote:It is nice to see someone have nice things to say about Rosetta Stone. I also enjoy it's sentences and am learning a lot with just them. They do a great job of introducing new grammar with words you know first then adding the new words with the new grammar.

Did you add all the sentences to Anki? picture +audio? I couldn't be bothered to get them so just use the sentences with TTS.


Thanks for the reply. I try to add all the questions/answers from the core lessons. If I skip one then I goofed so I've only skipped a couple. I think I would hate typing the sentences out more than anything lol. I can't touch type hangul so it's slow and painful.

What I do is take a snapshot of the Korean text with the picture and then record the audio to a file and stick both into Anki. Actually I made a YoutTube video showing it I think. This is over a year old now (wow). The Rosetta Stone deck starts at about 9:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8dl2QvxdE
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kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 341

Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby kraemder » Sat May 09, 2020 12:25 am

eido wrote:"취미" is pronounced pretty simply.

"우" and "이" make a dipththong, so you get a "w" sound. "Chwi mi," [chwee-mee] in short. When you get compound vowel blocks like that, they're always dipththong-like constructs.


I'm aware of the diphthong but somehow it's not getting understood when I say it really well. I hope this gets better on its own but if not I'll take steps to address this. Foreign language pronunciation is something I hate. So yeah, I'm not great at it. I do try my best to speak well enough to be understood though.
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ロータス
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Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby ロータス » Sat May 09, 2020 12:38 am

kraemder wrote:
ロータス wrote:It is nice to see someone have nice things to say about Rosetta Stone. I also enjoy it's sentences and am learning a lot with just them. They do a great job of introducing new grammar with words you know first then adding the new words with the new grammar.

Did you add all the sentences to Anki? picture +audio? I couldn't be bothered to get them so just use the sentences with TTS.


Thanks for the reply. I try to add all the questions/answers from the core lessons. If I skip one then I goofed so I've only skipped a couple. I think I would hate typing the sentences out more than anything lol. I can't touch type hangul so it's slow and painful.

What I do is take a snapshot of the Korean text with the picture and then record the audio to a file and stick both into Anki. Actually I made a YoutTube video showing it I think. This is over a year old now (wow). The Rosetta Stone deck starts at about 9:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8dl2QvxdE


Oh I didnt type the sentences. Rosetta Stone gives out the sentences for free. Just copied and paste to spreadsheet and imported into Anki :3

From your video, you make doing listening card look easy lol. Maybe I should add a second deck that I do that is all listening cards...
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kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 341

Re: Kraemders lazy Korean log

Postby kraemder » Sat May 09, 2020 3:31 am

ロータス wrote:
Oh I didnt type the sentences. Rosetta Stone gives out the sentences for free. Just copied and paste to spreadsheet and imported into Anki :3

From your video, you make doing listening card look easy lol. Maybe I should add a second deck that I do that is all listening cards...


I really recommend it. I've used the Rosetta Stone deck for about a year and never gotten bored of it. I've gotten distracted but not bored with it. The quality of the audio is so good. And the sentences are never too hard that they turn into leeches just because the sentence length or the grammar etc., is beyond what you can do on an SRS card. I've tried sentence mining and using audio cards from other sources and it seemed good at first but didn't work out in the end for various reasons. Rosetta Stone works great.
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