Nihongo: listening and reading

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tungemål
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:44 pm

A reflection on listening exercises in beginner books:
Often they include exercises where they just say "listen to these sentences, and try to understand them, without reading". This seems to be a philosophy, and sometimes there isn't even a transcript. That doesn't work for me. I need to understand every word, by having the text, at least untill I am at an intermediate level. If I only listen, the bits that I don't understand just fade into a general background noise, and I will not learn anything. Which leads me to this: the beginner books should have audio, transcript, and translation of every dialogue. Should be simple and easy enough to provide.

The "Colloquial Japanese"-book has some good dialogues, but several aspects about it irritates me. This is: Not always translations, no vocabulary explanations after chapter 10 ("in order to save space"), small text (you need sharp eyesight to read furigana), and the Kanji learning part is far too insufficient. The last part doesn't matter, however, since I already know the kanji.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:09 am

I found this japanese test called JFT basic:
https://www.jpf.go.jp/jft-basic/e/

It tests for A2 level, that is whether you've got the “ability to engage in everyday conversation to a certain extent and handle daily life without difficulties”.

I did the sample test and was surprised at how much I understood. My result was:
- script and vocabulary: 3/4
- grammar and expressions: 1/2
- listening comprehension: 3/4
- reading comprehension: 3/4

It was probably not a pass, but not far from it.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:40 pm

Anki: I still wrestle with the core 2000 anki deck. The first pass was definitely not enough to remember all the words. I started this 20th of october and at the moment I've got only 1106 mature words. To learn to read japanese is really frustratingly hard. Maybe I should just binge study the rest of the young+learn words.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby crush » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:43 pm

I think coming across those words in different contexts really helps to plant them in my brain, the first time i see a word it only exists for me within the context of that sentence, as i come across it in other contexts it begins to open up and gradually i start understanding it as a come across it without needing to remember what exactly it means.

Also, i tried that test and it was way beyond my head. So you must be doing something right if that test was "near passable" for you!
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:11 pm

You are right, I need to read more and meet words in context. Some days I haven't got the energy and so only do the Anki deck.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:05 pm

Working on chapter 13 in "Colloquial Japanese". My listening comprehension is better, as I can follow the dialogues now provided I have read and understood them first. The grammar is getting tough: This chapter deals with the passive, indirect passive, causative, and causative-passive. Best to take one step at a time.

Normal passive is not that difficult:
Mita - I saw
Mirareta - I was seen
Tabeta - I ate
Taberareta - I was eaten (don't use this one)

Indirect passive (passive with intransitive verbs)
Ame ni furareta - (I was) caught in the rain (literally "I was fallen on by the rain")
Tomodachi ni korarete komatta - (I was) inconvenienced by a friends "coming"

added:
With indirect passive, the object remains the object, the subject being the person who suffers the inconvenience:
direct passive: saifu ga nusumareta - the wallet was stolen ("saifu" is subject)
indirect passive: saifu wo nusumareta - I had my wallet stolen (the speaker is subject)
Last edited by tungemål on Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:32 pm

causative form:
to make (or let) someone do something

suru - saseru
yaru - yaraseru
taberu - tabesaseru
matsu - mataseru
tsukuru - tsukuraseru
harau - harawaseru

With intransitive verbs, ni indicates permission (to let), wo indicates to make someone do something.
okaasan wa musume ni kaimono ni ikasemashita - the mother let the daughter to go shopping
okaasan wa musume wo kaimono ni ikasemashita - the mother made the daughter go shopping
shachoo wa Suzuki san wo yamesasemashita - The boss made Suzuki stop his work (i.e. fired him)

But with transitive verbs, ni is used in both cases.
watashi wa musume ni ryouri wo tsukurasete imasu - I am allowing/ I am getting my daughter to do the cooking

-te kudasi forms:
warawasenaide kudasai - don't make me laugh
watashi ni harawasete kudasai - please let me pay (offering to pay)
sukoshi yasumasete kudasai - please let me rest a little
kangaesasete kudasai - let me think about it

-te ageru forms:
Oishii jizake wo nomasete agemasu - I'll let you try some delicious local sake.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:29 pm

Causative-passive

to be made to do something

suru - saserareru
iku - ikaserareru - to be made to go
taberu - tabesaserareru - to be made to eat
matsu - mataserareru - short form: matasareru - to be made to wait
utau - utawaserareru - short form: utawasareru - to be made to sing

okaasan ni gakkou he ikaserareta
byouin de zuibun nagaku matasareta
kekkonshiki de supiichi wo saserareta
muri ni igirisu no uta wo utawasareta

(examples from Colloquial Japanese and Teach yourself Japanese)
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:34 pm

I have been neglecting Japanese studies in favour of German studies. I have fought my way through chapter 13, but not internalised it yet because I encountered a wall of new vocabulary and more complicated language.

I have focused on German because it is easy to become engrossed in one language on the expense of others. My Japanese level is not so high yet and since I can make real use of German for radio, movies and news while Japanese is a struggle, I gravitate towards German.

But it would have been very interesting to be able to read the Japanese news in these days.
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Re: Nihongo: listening and reading

Postby tungemål » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:07 am

I am reviewing about 100 words that I put into Anki during february and march. For reading japanese, I am still not comfortable at all on how a character will be pronounced. Mostly I have memorised pronunciation of words. I need to memorise two things: how does the word sound, and how is it written. Often when I see a word I can remember the meaning, but not how it is pronounced. By the way, is there any other language where they need to employ a separate script to explain how the writing system is supposed to be read? (furigana).
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