3 Day Projects (2019-2023)

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Teango
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76. Hangar open (ja)

Postby Teango » Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:01 am

Japanese #19 (6h) | 0 Image 5
  • Preparation for my final Japanese exam.
Thank you, everyone, for your kind support! Your feedback and encouragement made a real difference when it counted, and I'm ready now to start a new chapter in my language learning adventures. The good news is that I sat my last big exam for Japanese today and am finally free! やった!! This experience has taught me, once again, that I'm about as far from a fan of current standard models of language instruction and testing as one can be, and henceforth, I'm looking forward to flying my own way. You can therefore expect to see some some big changes (and hopefully, maverick progress) in my 3 Day Projects to follow: "Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower." ;)

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Last edited by Teango on Sun Aug 06, 2023 3:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Welcome, 2023!

Postby Teango » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:55 pm

I hope everyone had a good time over Christmas and New Year, and are readying to surf sparkling new waves in the sunrise of 2023! I've taken a month out to focus on family and health, and am looking forward to returning to my language misadventures with ambitious plans and renewed vigor. I don't wish to overpromise and underdeliver here, so I'll just start with a couple of new directions...

Firstly, I aim to build up proficiency in 11 languages, sticking to my tried and tested 3DP (3 Day Projects) approach. The truth is, with the exception of my native language (English) and some Russian and Japanese dabbling over the past couple of years, I've largely let everything go. It's time to bring my academic paddling, meditations, and 15-year search for the perfect language learning methodology to a close, fling wide the temple doors, and start walking the enlightened path from procrastination to progress.

And secondly, speaking of letting everything go, I aim to work more than ever on my nutrition, strength, flexibility, and fitness, health permitting (note: I suffer from a serious chronic autoinflammatory disease, so this can be a tough ask). I'm fed up of being the stereotypical out-of-shape dad, and have started going to a gym (after 15 years' absence!) and signed up for a new course in nutrition and "smarter eating" at a local university. The cargo shorts are probably here to stay (out of sheer domestic necessity) but I think I can do something about the rest. My wife approves.

Let's see how this all unfolds…? ;)

Ke aloha,
Teango
Last edited by Teango on Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:41 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby crush » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:30 am

Hey Teango, my family's planning a trip to Hawai'i next year and i was wondering if you might be able to answer a few questions.
1. Are there any resources for learning (textbooks/dictionaries/grammars) you would recommend?
2. What about literature/audio-video resources to immerse in the language? Any online bookstores?
3. I've heard schools often teach a more archaic form of the language that isn't really spoken by native speakers (i think it was a blurb in the Wikipedia article) and that a lot of resources are from second language speakers, is that ever really a problem?
4. Do people actually speak Hawaiian? I'm curious if i'd even have any opportunities to use it if i spent time learning the basics this year. I've read a few of your stories about speaking it in the streets which is encouraging.

Hope your studies (and exercise/nutrition plan) are going well!
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby Teango » Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:20 am

Mahalo e Crush! Cool to hear you're planning a trip to Hawaiʻi next year. Which island(s) were you thinking of visiting? I hope you and your family have an awesome time, wherever you decide upon, and if you're headed to Honolulu, hit me up with a PM closer to the time and I'll send on some recommendations.

As for 2023 and my initial grand hopes, I've been unable to get down to any real language study so far this year. It's just been a parade of domestic emergencies and parental duties, seasoned with the predictable onslaught of back-to-back winter super-colds saved up from the Pandemic. I think this is no. 4 or 5 in a row so far this year! Crazy, right!? Thus is the life of a dad with young active kids who go to schools in two very different locations.

Despite all that, the nutrition plan is going really well. I've already lost about 20 lbs in 2 months, and cold/flu season aside, I'm feeling so much better overall. I think cutting out processed food, and replacing eating out and naughty snacks with home-cooked meals and healthful home-made alternatives, has made the biggest difference. Getting plenty of hydration, rest, and sleep is also key (still working on that). The exercise part has yet to really get off the ground but I aim to get down the gym more once I feel up to it.

I'll try to answer the rest of your questions about the Hawaiian language later, once I get another moment. It might be a while before I post again, but don't worry, I haven't forgotten you... ;)
Last edited by Teango on Wed May 31, 2023 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby crush » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:59 pm

Awesome thanks! I know we will be going to Honolulu and Maui and possibly "Hawaiʻi" as well (in quotes because i didnʻt realize one of the islands had the same name until last week when we were told about the trip!).

Hope your colds/health issues iron themselves out. Sounds like the diet is going well, at least!

Look forward to hearing your suggestions. I picked up Ka Lei Haʻaheo as i believe you mentioned that it was the main textbook you used and have been looking for something like a Hawaiian novel, but apart from some translations i found on Amazon (including the first Harry Potter book) it seems like novels set in Hawaii are for more common than novels written in the Hawaiian language.

Are the 11 languages you plan to work on roughly the 11 mentioned at the start of your log? (There are actually 12 there and i donʻt see Hawaiian there, hence the roughly). Iʻll be curious to see how you work on maintaining them, thatʻs been something iʻve had trouble with myself. Once a language gets enjoyable to use, i start feeling guilty about consuming content in it rather than studying my weaker languages, causing it to slowly degrade over time.
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby Teango » Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:59 am

As promised, I return with some answers (better late than never)...

crush wrote:1. Are there any resources for learning (textbooks/dictionaries/grammars) you would recommend?

Ka Lei Haʻaheo is a good textbook to start with. This is what I used at the University of Hawaiʻi as Mānoa through Hawaiian Language courses 101, 102, 201 and 202 (which probably brings you up to A2-B1 on the CEFR scale). One of my teachers claimed it should give you a solid grasp of 70-80% of the grammar, and based on my own experience, there's enough vocabulary there to start conversing and writing at a very limited level afterwards with the aid of a good dictionary to fill in the gaps as you go.

crush wrote:2. What about literature/audio-video resources to immerse in the language? Any online bookstores?

There's plenty of literature, illustrated kids' books and reading material to be had. You can find books on Amazon, or better still, contact Nā Mea Hawaiʻi (where I bought many of my books). However, this is probably something to think of once you reach a higher intermediate level, and the usual Forum recommendations of starting out with something simple and familiar may well apply here, e.g., Ke Keiki Aliʻi Liʻiliʻi (The Little Prince). Once advanced though, there is a huge wealth of Hawaiian writing and newspaper articles available from the days of the Old Kingdom of Hawai'i before it was annexed. Prior to its illegal occupation and inclusion as the 50th US state, Hawai'i was actually pretty advanced in many ways, adopting electric street lighting in 1888 and boasting one of the highest rates of literacy in the world.

As for audio-video resources, there are several recordings of mānaleo (native speakers) online and accompanying audio to illustrated children's books. You could start off with half a dozen children's stories by Kamehamehapublishing, and then check out interviews with mānaleo, vignettes from the Kulāiwi learning series, and other videos from the HawaiianGoodness channel. Another nice starting place for beginners is Ka Leo ʻŌiwi. There are also a few full-length movies (e.g., The Wind and the Reckoning) and some shorts and animations (e.g., The Healer Stones of Kapaemahu) in Hawaiian. You might even be able to rent a copy of Moana dubbed into the Hawaiian language from your local public library. I also recently learned that you can get
Hawaiian subtitles and dubbing for mainstream Netflix shows via ʻŌleofix. I havenʻt checked it out yet but it sounds like a promising development. :) Happy hunting!

crush wrote:3. I've heard schools often teach a more archaic form of the language that isn't really spoken by native speakers (i think it was a blurb in the Wikipedia article) and that a lot of resources are from second language speakers, is that ever really a problem?

No, that shouldn't pose a problem. There are several strands of Hawaiian spoken here across the 8 islands and they are all mutually intelligible (so long as you don't indulge in too many Mai Tais ;) ). Neo-Hawaiian is the main one used and taught in schools and places of learning throughout Hawaiʻi. I guess you could call it "standard" Hawaiian at a pinch, and akin to the development of Modern Irish in the 20th century, it has adopted and embraced a mountain of neologisms to cover modern vocabulary. If you hear any Hawaiian at all, this will most likely be the flavor of the day. Older generations and family tend to speak pidgin versions of Hawaiian, largely influenced by Hawaiian Creole English, and in many cases, employ a more basic set of vocabulary and simplified grammar. And a very small subset of people speak the Niʻihau dialect, which is significantly different but still mutually intelligible (once you get an ear for it, substitute a few new words, and make the necessary phonemic substitutions, e.g., /k/ becomes /t/).

crush wrote:4. Do people actually speak Hawaiian? I'm curious if i'd even have any opportunities to use it if i spent time learning the basics this year. I've read a few of your stories about speaking it in the streets which is encouraging.

I donʻt want to rain on your hopes here, but the main issue will be finding anyone who can speak Hawaiian beyond a few tourist words and phrases (e.g., mahalo, aloha, kōkua, e komo mai, kamaʻaina, pau hana, a hui hou, ʻaina, mauka, makai, poke, ʻono, lānai, honu, pūpū, ʻohana). I've lived here for well over a decade and have rarely heard people casually speaking in Hawaiian outside of specific ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi get-togethers and native rallies, protests and events. You'll hear Tagalog, Bisaya, Ilokano, Japanese, Mandarin, Korean, Samoan, and Marshallese everywhere. Even on my many trips to Nā Mea Hawaiʻi (pretty much the premier store for Hawaiian language products here on the island), I only once bumped into a teacher of Hawaiian and hula dancing who could speak fluent Hawaiian (and they stopped working there a long time ago). Keep in mind that (according to Wikipedia) less than 0.1% of the population speak proficient Hawaiian, and I imagine that's a rather optimistic number, especially on Oʻahu. And Niʻihau is strictly off-limits to tourists (the last true micro-bastion of native speakers). That's not to say you won't be able to find lots of opportunities to speak Hawaiian while holidaying on Oʻahu, Maui and Big Island if you go out and look for them. There are fluent Hawaiian speakers out there. And as a bonus, you'll have a secret understanding of the meaning behind many of the Hawaiian names of roads, buildings, people and places, and be able to read (at least in part) the inscriptions on many of the monuments, which is pretty cool. Just keep in mind that it won't be anything like learning Finnish through Assimil and heading off to Helsinki to chat over a cup of Paulig (or even, dare-I-say, a wee dram of Irish in the Gaeltacht).

crush wrote:Are the 11 languages you plan to work on roughly the 11 mentioned at the start of your log?

Not quite. Three Day Projects are open to any languages and these are just the ones I've happened to dabble in since starting my 3DP log here on the forum (I think that adds up to about a dozen and some small change so far). Unfortunately, I'm battling some serious health issues at the moment, so I've had to put a longer-than-anticipated temporary hold on these lovely multilingual plans of mine. However, once I feel better and up to the task, I'd like to finally unhitch the wagon and set off on my big language journey. Here's the provisional list I drew up earlier in the year: English, Irish and Russian; French, German and Spanish; Filipino, Hawaiian and Japanese; New Zealand Sign Language, Turkish and Zulu.

Again, thanks for your good wishes, and I hope you make lots of progress in your language plans and have an awesome trip to Hawaiʻi next year!

Ke aloha,
Teango
Last edited by Teango on Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby sfuqua » Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:50 am

Hawaiian is such a cool language. Forty years ago, when I took a semester of Hawaiian at UofH, as nonnative speaker of Samoan, I was very jealous of the amount of written Hawaiian available at that time. I bet there is a ton more available now. I still can't find much available in Samoan.
I've mentioned it before, but one of the coolest moments in my brief Hawaiian career was when the professor and I tried to communicate using our different Polynesian languages. I spoke Samoan trying to pronounce the words with a "Hawaiian" pronunciation, and she just spoke Hawaiian. We could communicate a bit, which I found very cool.
How many major sea crossings in ancient Polynesian boats did those words make in order to get from Samoa to Hawaii? What were the people like who spoke them? There is a lot of blue water between those places.

Later when I moved to the Philippines and realized that there were thousands of cognates with Samoan, it sort of left me in awe of the people who settled that huge part of the world.
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荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby crush » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:33 pm

Teango wrote:As promised, I return with some answers (better late than never)...

Thanks! It gave me some time to sink my teeth into Hawaiian a bit more in the meantime!

Teango wrote:Ka Lei Haʻaheo is a good textbook to start with. This is what I used at the University of Hawaiʻi as Mānoa through Hawaiian Language courses 101, 102, 201 and 202 (which probably brings you up to A2-B1 on the CEFR scale).

This has been the bulk of my study so far, i'm currently working my way through unit 16 (ʻumikūmāono) and i have been getting a false sense of confidence. I've tried reading some simple stories which have quickly put me back in my place. I've been searching for materials closer to my level, i feel like some of the record conversations with transcripts are a bit easier to follow so i've started focusing there first. The Kulāiwi vignettes are also great as are the dialogs in Ka Lei Haʻaheo, which i've been re-reading from time to time. I found the audio for the first ten units but unfortunately don't have them for the final 14.

Teango wrote:There's plenty of literature, illustrated kids' books and reading material to be had. You can find books on Amazon, or better still, contact Nā Mea Hawaiʻi (where I bought many of my books).

I've already purchased quite a few books from here and it is indeed a good source of books, it can be tough to determine if a book is English or Hawaiian though, a lot of books have Hawaiian titles but are written in English. Hawaiian words seem to have a lot of homonyms and i think regular reading will help me wrap my head around the different meanings.

Teango wrote:However, this is probably something to think of once you reach a higher intermediate level, and the usual Forum recommendations of starting out with something simple and familiar may well apply here, e.g., Ke Keiki Aliʻi Liʻiliʻi (The Little Prince).

I've picked up Ke Keiki Aliʻi Liʻiliʻi and all of Keao NeSmith's translations that i could find (Harry Potter, The Hobbit, The Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, Through the Looking-Glass, and of course The Little Prince) and those seem like great starting points as i'm familiar with all of those stories (though i've never actually read The Wizard of Oz, just watched the movie several times). I hope he continues to do more translations! Of these i'm thinking Harry Potter and The Little Prince will be the most accessible due to the vocabulary and my familiarity with the stories.

Do you know of any young adult novels written in (or translated into) Hawaiian? Most of what i've found (and purchased) have been myths and legends, which i'm very much looking forward to reading, but it feels like the vocabulary is more difficult and less slice-of-life. I've found a couple bilingual stories which seem like a good introduction to Hawaiian legends, i'm just wondering if there's something more of a "young adult, general fiction novel" that you can recommend.

Teango wrote: Once advanced though, there is a huge wealth of Hawaiian writing and newspaper articles available from the days of the Old Kingdom of Hawai'i before it was annexed. Prior to its illegal occupation and inclusion as the 50th US state, Hawai'i was actually pretty advanced in many ways, adopting electric street lighting in 1888 and boasting one of the highest rates of literacy in the world.

I've read this as well, that nearly 100% of the population was literate in Hawaiian. I'm very excited to start reading old newspapers, though the lack of ʻokina and kahakō have scared me off for now. I think i'll be coming back to these when, as you say, i'm more advanced and somewhat conversational in Hawaiian. From what i understand, for historical reasons most native Hawaiian speakers (like those in Niʻihau) don't write with these marks so it's something i should get used to in the long run.

Teango wrote:As for audio-video resources, there are several recordings of mānaleo (native speakers) online and accompanying audio to illustrated children's books.

These are great, thank you! I wish these books weren't so expensive (the corresponding books to the five-minute audio stories are $16 each) or they had ebook versions, but i'll gradually grab a couple to work through over the coming months.

Teango wrote:I also recently learned that you can get
Hawaiian subtitles and dubbing for mainstream Netflix shows via ʻŌleofix. I havenʻt checked it out yet but it sounds like a promising development. :) Happy hunting!

I saw this a couple months ago and got excited about it. It seems like the translations are done by non-native speakers/learners, so i'm a bit hesitant to rely on them for learning material. There aren't any dubs available yet and i believe the project hasn't been touched in a couple years, their add-on to put the subtitles on Netflix didn't work anymore when i tried it unfortunately but you can still read through the subtitles on the editor on their site. It is a neat project, though!

Teango wrote:I donʻt want to rain on your hopes here, but the main issue will be finding anyone who can speak Hawaiian beyond a few tourist words and phrases (e.g., mahalo, aloha, kōkua, e komo mai, kamaʻaina, pau hana, a hui hou, ʻaina, mauka, makai, poke, ʻono, lānai, honu, pūpū, ʻohana).

That's what i figured. I'm hoping at the very least to be able to pick up some Hawaiian books and other materials to practice Hawaiian back home. I'll have to try to make a trip or two to Nā Mea Hawaiʻi!

Thank you again for the detailed response, there's a ton for me to work through here as i try to fill in my vocabulary and get more used to spoken Hawaiian. I've been listening to the podcasts from Ka Alala (from their logo, i'm assuming that's Ka ʻAlalā?) and finding myself understanding more and more words, which has been motivating. My wife has been working on a website to help me read in Hawaiian as well (inspired by the amazing Tagalog.com reader):
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby Teango » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:13 am

crush wrote:This has been the bulk of my study so far, i'm currently working my way through unit 16 (ʻumikūmāono)...

Good to hear you're making excellent headway with Ka Lei Haʻaheo. My copy is lovingly dog-eared and I periodically return to it to refresh my knowledge of grammatical structures. I guess you're just starting to get your feet wet in passive structures, which is really useful. The passive voice is an essential component of everyday Hawaiian dialogue, and although grammar admittedly goes a little uphill in the last quarter of the book, this is where you'll find a lot of the "good stuff". ;) Incidentally, Alberta Pualani Hopkins was my first kumu's teacher, and by all accounts, an awesome teacher in class and a wonderful and humble kind-hearted member of the Hawaiian community.

crush wrote:Do you know of any young adult novels written in (or translated into) Hawaiian?

Beyond the titles you already mentioned, it's relatively slim pickings I'm afraid. With increasing numbers of bright creative minds graduating from Hawaiian language immersion schools, maybe that will change one day? I heard that Kumu NeSmith was interested in translating more of the Harry Potter series but that was several years ago and it's really tough work with a language like Hawaiian. It would be cool if he has a new translation in the works...

crush wrote:I've been listening to the podcasts from Ka Alala... My wife has been working on a website to help me read in Hawaiian as well...

Ka Alala is new to me and looks like an excellent channel for practicing conversational Hawaiian - nice find! For everyday reading, I used to follow a fellow Hawaiian language learner on Learning the Hawaiian Language (lots of easy interesting articles i ka ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi with generous helpings of media related to living in Japan as a foreigner). To be fair, I haven't done much with Hawaiian for a long time but hope to remedy that once health improves. Maybe there are lots more contemporary Hawaiian language resources out there since I last checked? It's also great how your wife is supporting you with all this!!

Mahalo for the link and for sharing your adventures so far. It sounds like you're making impressive progress... 8-)
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Re: 3 Day Projects (3DP)

Postby Teango » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:44 am

sfuqua wrote:I spoke Samoan trying to pronounce the words with a "Hawaiian" pronunciation, and she just spoke Hawaiian. We could communicate a bit, which I found very cool.

Yes indeed...it's such an amazing feeling when you can understand even a phrase or two in a language you've never heard before. In a mirror image to your experience, I've chatted in Hawaiian to Samoans (perhaps wagering a consonant insertion or two) and was surprised by the similarities. It's not enough for mutual intelligibility by any means (e.g., like with Hawaiian and Tahitian) but it's still pretty cool that there's a common underlying linguistic substratum there to help things along. This happened to me twice in taxis and once at a local market where they initially thought I was a foreigner speaking Samoan really badly. :lol:
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