księżycowy's 2020 Log (German, Polish, Munster Irish)

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księżycowy
Orange Belt
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
Location: Earth
Languages: Known: English (N), German (~A1), Polish (~A1), Japanese (~A1),
Learning: Irish, German, Polish
Academic Interests: Biblical Greek & Hebrew, Latin
Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:13 pm

Time to really confuse myself! :P

Classical Chinese
I just received a copy of Van Norden's Classical Chinese for Everyone, and I couldn't help but read a bit from Lesson 1. (I do have other textbooks, like Fuller and Rouzer, but those expect some decent knowledge of Chinese. Certainly more than I have at the moment.)

I like the bit-sized lessons in Van Norden. They are perfect for getting a taste of the classical/literary language without getting too deep while I get a foothold on the modern language. Anyway, here are some notes from lesson 1:

The reading from this lesson is a line from the Analects (17.2). There are three main grammar points to distill from this passage:

Stative Verbs:
Very similar to Modern Chinese (hence forth MC), this construction can be summed up as -
N + SV (note the absence of an adverb, which is generally required in MC)

Adverb 相:
Here we find a similar construction to MC -
Adv. + V

And lastly Nominal Sentences:
N1 N2
Rather than the use of 是 for this type of construction (like in MC), CC uses the sentence final particle 也. The word order is also different, in MC it would be N1 是 N2
In place of one of the N's we can also find a verbal clause.

Therefore we can analyse our reading as:
子曰:「性相近也,習相遠也。」
sub. V:「N1 VC 也,N1 VC 也」
Master say: "nature1 each-other close, practice(s) each-other far." (this is obviously a very literal translation)
I would offer the following as a more formal translation:
The Master said: "Nature is close2, practices are far from each other."

Notes:
1. "Nature" as in "human nature".
2. This could also be rendered as something like "Human nature is...." or even "The nature(s) of humans are close to each other"

I will also say that, as a past philosophy/religious studies major, I deeply appreciate the philosophical notes littered through out the book.
3 x
Teach Yourself Irish (1961) : 9 / 27
Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
Orange Belt
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Languages: Known: English (N), German (~A1), Polish (~A1), Japanese (~A1),
Learning: Irish, German, Polish
Academic Interests: Biblical Greek & Hebrew, Latin
Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:55 pm

Ok, I've had a pretty productive day! I can't say it'll last (especially when work starts back up), but it's working for now. :P

Haitian Creole
I mostly just listened and repeated the dialogue from Leson En. I plan to start moving on the Leson De tomorrow. I don't see any need to repeat the drills, as they are quite easy. I'm sure that'll change in a week or two.

Irish
I reviewed the exercises from Lesson I. Most of my attention was directed at the audio, so I can begin to develop my listening and speaking skills. These are the skills I found most lacking the last time I was learning Irish. I also did some of the written exercises, but I didn't worry as much about them. I'll post grammar notes later this week.

Polish
I reviewed the grammar drills from Lesson 1 or Swan, which were super easy. I probably should review the dialogues again, but regardless I'll do some vocabulary drilling, and move on to the next lesson. At this point, this is all review anyway.

Chinese
I listened to, and repeated the dialogues to Lessons 1 & 2. Much like Irish, I feel like this is the skill I need to be conscious of working on as I move along. Especially given the tonal nature of Chinese. As I haven't spoken much Chinese lately, I found that I could work on my tones some more. On the plus side, my listening comprehension is developing nicely. The main tricky spot is the 3rd tone.

As for the written language, I find that my reading skills are pretty good for the amount of hanzi I've learned. I should get back to learning how to write them though. Even if that is a dying art.
3 x
Teach Yourself Irish (1961) : 9 / 27
Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
Orange Belt
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Languages: Known: English (N), German (~A1), Polish (~A1), Japanese (~A1),
Learning: Irish, German, Polish
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Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:26 pm

As is typical with me, my eyes were bigger than my "stomach". :P

I've decided to scale things way back and do one living language, and one ancient/classical/etc. language. This change in thought process was brought about by some self reflection, a conversation with a friend, and perusing various posts.

After talking to two of the school I was going to try to get a job with this coming summer/fall in Taiwan, it (unfortunately) seems that I will have to wait longer to go overseas. (I hope to resume my job hunt by the fall.) This, of course, is due to the prohibition against international travel in several places of interest. At least this give me more time to study some of these languages (namely Japanese and Chinese, but possibly also Korean) and get at least to an A2 level before setting foot there. And, because I continue to be off work until at least May 15th, and summer break is fast approaching, I seem to have plenty of time to do some studying of a few languages (well, at least I hope :P ). (For anyone interested, I work in the education sector, but am not currently a teacher.)

Anyway, after some careful consideration of my interests, the time I have to act, and my presumed pace, I've formulated a bit of a plan. I will start with one of my heritage languages (I've chosen Irish, but it was a hard choice between that and the other two) for the next few weeks. Over the summer I plan to resume studying an Asian language, with the eye towards where I would most likely go first, should I get a job. Of course, if I get an offer from elsewhere, I'll quickly change gears.

TL;DR: I'm doing Irish aonaránach for a bit, and hope to pick up probably Japanese or Chinese again shortly. I will also be playing around with some Old English on the side for now.

Now, for language notes:

Irish
I continued to review from Lesson I by completing Exercises 2 & 3. I decided, since I'm trying to review, expand and retain my Irish this time, it would behoove me to do all of the exercises. I will also sprinkle in some Pimsleur and other audio lessons as I am able. As my main focus is the Munster dialect, this does pose a problem as far as resources. (I do intend to eventually get some Connacht and Ulster Irish under my belt as well, but I want to have Munster by the main dialect I know and use. I've always been particularly interested in Connacht, ever since I got Learning Irish by Ó Siadhail some years [and years] ago.)

Old English
I've started going through A Guide to Old English, and have started learning the pronouns. My goal is to learn all the pronouns (demonstrative, personal, interrogative) by the end of next week.
2 x
Teach Yourself Irish (1961) : 9 / 27
Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
Orange Belt
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Languages: Known: English (N), German (~A1), Polish (~A1), Japanese (~A1),
Learning: Irish, German, Polish
Academic Interests: Biblical Greek & Hebrew, Latin
Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:57 pm

Gaelainn
Here is the update I promised a few days ago.

Irish word order is VSO, and Lesson I goes over the basic sentence with . In this case it is more V + S + adj.
Ex.
Tá an bóthar díreach.
[tɑ:n bo:hər d´i:r´əx]
is def-art road straight
The road is straight.

This lesson also introduces past participles, preemptively. (They are formally introduced in Lesson V.)

Tá na cearca díolta.
[tɑ: nə k´arkə d´i:lhə]
is def-art-pl hen-pl sold
The hens are sold.

Questions and negatives with make use of the following special forms: an bhfuil, níl, and ná fuil.
Thus we have:
Tá an mhuc ramhar.
[tɑ:n vuk raur]
The pig is fat.

An bhfuil an mhuc ramhar?
[ə vwil ən vuk raur]
Is the pig fat?

Níl an mhuc ramhar.
[ni:l ən vuk raur]
The pig is not fat.

Ná fuil an mhuc ramhar?
[nɑ: fwil ən vuk raur]
Is the pig not fat? / Is not the pig fat?

Lesson II introduces the present and past tense of the first conjugation of regular verbs.

Present
SingularPlural
1st-im-imíd
2nd-ir-ann
3rd-ann-id


Past
SingularPlural
1st-as-amair
2nd-is-abhair
3rd-∅-adar


As is typical, caol le caol agus leathan le leathan (slender with slender and broad and broad) is in play. Therefore, if we have a verb stem ending in a slender consonant, say buail (from buailim - I strike) we have to add the vowel <e> to endings that would otherwise be broad.
Ex. buaileann sí, (do) bhuaileas, etc.

For a verb ending in a broad consonant the added vowel is <a>.
Ex. dúnaim, do dhúnais, dúnair (the stem is dún, from dúnaim - I shut)

There were a few other things introduced, but I think this will do it for now.

I'm currently working on the exercises for Lesson II.
1 x
Teach Yourself Irish (1961) : 9 / 27
Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
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Posts: 131
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Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:52 pm

Gaelainn
I finished the exercises for Lesson II, and will be moving on to Lesson III tomorrow. I'll also start drilling vocabulary on Anki tomorrow, which I should have started already, but some of it is coming back to me.

Ænglisc
Well, as much as I was liking the idea of torturing myself with the Guide, I happened across a textbook that looked too good to pass up: Reading Old English: A Primer and Frist Reader by Hasenfratz and Jambeck. This textbook has actual lessons, with progression; it's not a reference grammar posing as a "textbook". (I don't mean to diminish the Guide, or say I won't use it. But it's not a good first textbook, IMO. I expect to use it extensively after Reading Old English.)

So far I've flown through the pronunciation section (I kinda already know how to pronounce it. And even if I don't, who's gonna correct me? :P ) and started Chapter 2. There are 11 chapters in all, each with somewhere between 2 to 4 lessons each.

Chapter 2 Lesson 1
This lesson begins the chapter on nouns. It goes over basic concepts like gender, word order, and most importantly (to me) the definite article, and a preview of the pronouns. So far I've put the definite article into Anki, and will continue to put the pronouns into it tomorrow and begin drilling it all then.
1 x
Teach Yourself Irish (1961) : 9 / 27
Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
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Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Languages: Known: English (N), German (~A1), Polish (~A1), Japanese (~A1),
Learning: Irish, German, Polish
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Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:30 pm

Gaelainn
Lesson III goes over noun declension of the first and second, well, declensions. The full paradigm is given. Of particular interest to me is the dative case. In Munster (specifically the West Cork dialect anyway) preserves the dative case in the second declension. All other resources I've perused usually make no mention of the dative case (for example, Learning Irish only makes mention of the genitive case). In many dialects of Irish, including the CO, the dative case has largely merged with the nominative case (just like the accusative case). Anyway, here are the full paradigms:

First Declension
SingularPlural
Nom/Accan bádna báid
Genan bháidna mbád
Datdon bháddosna bádaibh
Voca bháida bháda


Second Declension
SingularPlural
Nom/Accan chlochna clocha
Genna cloichena gcloch
Datdon cloichdosna clochaibh
Voca chlocha chlocha
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Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
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Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Fri May 01, 2020 10:51 pm

Gaelainn
Today I finished the exercises from Lesson III and did some vocabulary review/learning. Tomorrow I will review the last few lessons, which it is my hope to listen to the audio without the textbook, and translate it. Of course that is for the Irish -> English exercises. For the English -> Irish exercises, I hope to use the textbook, but speak the answer. This may take more than one day to complete fluently and correctly.

Ænglisc
I've been working on reviewing the forms of the definite article. It's kicking my butt, I'm not going to lie. I've decided not to drill the personal pronouns that are previewed in the lesson yet. I'll save that for Chapter 7. I also did actually start reading the first chapter on phonology. It's quite interesting. For example, I didn't know about the two other pronunciations of <h> (namely [x] and [ç]). I'll continue to read Chapter One, just for the interesting tidbits.
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Begegnungen A1+ : 2 / 8
First-Year Polish : 3 / 30

księżycowy
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Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Tue May 05, 2020 2:17 pm

Ok, so I took a break on Saturday (or maybe it was Sunday, I'm having trouble with keeping track of time ATM :P ), and there was some server downtime, so it's definitely time for an update!

Gaelainn
I've reviewed Lesson I - III as outlined in the book (basically, they advocate doing the Key to the Exercises as the Exercise, and using the exercises in the lessons as the "key"), and also started my listening comprehension exercises. I will definitely need to continue to work on this skill. My listening skills for Irish suck; I find I can speak it well enough, and figure out the pronunciation (usually) from the spelling. My listening skills were laid to bare from Lesson III's audio. I'll pick up with that again today, and also probably include Lesson IV.

Speaking of Lesson IV, I started it yesterday. It goes over the present tense forms of . The personal endings are the same as were introduced in Lesson II, the only thing to worry about at this stage is when to use or fuil. But even that is pretty easy at this point, as the third person forms were introduced in Lessons I and II. (Also, my past experiences in learning Irish definitely helps, as well as having gone through about half of this textbook before. Just wanna say that, before anyone thinks I find this too easy or something. :lol: )

I completed exercise 10, and plan to finish the lesson today (well, aside from my listening comprehension exercises), and hopefully I'll move on the Lesson V as well.

Ænglisc
Well, I must admit that I've been moving slow on this one. I'm still working on memorizing the declension of the definite article. But I think I'll move on today, regardless of whether I have the paradigm perfectly memorized or not. I'm thinking I'll move on to Chapter 2 Lesson 2 at this point. I'll refer to the paradigms in Lesson 1 as needed. In time I'll have all of this memorized. In fact, seeing some of this in action in the exercises and readings will go a long way.

As a point of great news, I got in contact with one of the authors of the textbook I'm using and managed to obtain the answer key to the exercises and translations of the readings! I was pleasantly surprised to see his reply email this morning! This also makes me feel a lot more confidant in using this book, especially since I'm teaching myself.
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Tue May 05, 2020 4:59 pm

księżycowy wrote:Speaking of Lesson IV, I started it yesterday. It goes over the present tense forms of . The personal endings are the same as were introduced in Lesson II, the only thing to worry about at this stage is when to use or fuil. But even that is pretty easy at this point, as the third person forms were introduced in Lessons I and II. (Also, my past experiences in learning Irish definitely helps, as well as having gone through about half of this textbook before. Just wanna say that, before anyone thinks I find this too easy or something. :lol: )

I completed exercise 10, and plan to finish the lesson today (well, aside from my listening comprehension exercises), and hopefully I'll move on the Lesson V as well.


Thanks for a super-interesting log!

I just had a look at my copy. It's interesting to see that some verb endings haven't been kept in the Irish I know (basically Standard). Also, ná fuil is totally new to me - I learned it as nach bhfuil. (Some interesting phonology here...)

The paradigm came as a shock the first time I saw it. First positive vs. negative statements, then positive vs. negative questions.

The horror!
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księżycowy
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Posts: 131
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Languages: Known: English (N), German (~A1), Polish (~A1), Japanese (~A1),
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Next Up: Sorbian, Northern Frisian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: księżycowy's Log

Postby księżycowy » Tue May 05, 2020 9:16 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:Thanks for a super-interesting log!

I'm glad you like it! :D

I just had a look at my copy. It's interesting to see that some verb endings haven't been kept in the Irish I know (basically Standard). Also, ná fuil is totally new to me - I learned it as nach bhfuil. (Some interesting phonology here...)

When I first started learning Irish, it was with Learning Irish by Ó Siadhail, and he uses a lot of analytical forms (as it is in Cois Fharraige), I can't really rememeber if I I learned the "ná fuil" form in Connacht or not. I can't recall coming across nach bhfuil, but then again I've mostly read TYI and Munster writing (such as those by Peadar Ua Laoghaire of late.)

The paradigm came as a shock the first time I saw it. First positive vs. negative statements, then positive vs. negative questions.

The horror!

I can't say I was particularly shocked myself, but I can remember a conversation I once had with another learner of Munster Irish who cautioned me as to which form of Irish to learn. He was speaking tongue in cheek, but said that learning the Munster forms warps your brain when reading the CO forms. Or maybe it was the other way around. I can't seem to find the conversation anymore.
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