Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

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Arnaud
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby Arnaud » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:02 am

joecleland wrote: Here is my 4-month progress video [first 2 minutes]: https://youtu.be/vlQfNVJoOgY
Please don’t be shy as I am very open to comments, constructive criticism, etc.

Can I say that your pronounciation of "bienvenue" is wrong in all your videos (please don't kill me :lol: )
Otherwise, your progression is very impressive and it's not difficult to understand you even if you're a little weak on the vowels (you mix a lot of sounds like a/an/on, u/eu/ou, etc, but that's normal at this stage of learning and that doesn't prevent the understanding)
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Gustav Aschenbach
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby Gustav Aschenbach » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:30 am

I think your French is really great for only 4 months! Quite impressive and totally comprehensible.
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Kraut
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby Kraut » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:59 am

Arnaud wrote:
joecleland wrote: Here is my 4-month progress video [first 2 minutes]: https://youtu.be/vlQfNVJoOgY
Please don’t be shy as I am very open to comments, constructive criticism, etc.

Can I say that your pronounciation of "bienvenue" is wrong in all your videos (please don't kill me :lol: )
Otherwise, your progression is very impressive and it's not difficult to understand you even if you're a little weak on the vowels (you mix a lot of sounds like a/an/on, u/eu/ou, etc, but that's normal at this stage of learning and that doesn't prevent the understanding)


/p/, /t/, /k/ are pronounced too strong, intervocalic -s- must be voiced. Your fluidity in what you say is nice but it comes at a price. I'd pause for a week and do a repeat of your material under the pronunciation aspect.
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joecleland
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 18#p147718
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:22 pm

Morgana wrote:[
I think you've been doing some/all of the above to some extent already, if I've remembered correctly what you've said throughout your log. So it may be a case of just doing more - not as in longer sessions each day, but just keep going at it and over time it should improve. You've been working at French for a little over four months now, and made great progress in that time, but it's still such a brief time to be learning. It can take a while to build skills like pronunciation. It's kind of like learning to play a new instrument. You're building muscle memory, and you're creating new pathways in your brain. Repetition, consistency, perseverance, not getting too fed up with yourself when you feel you're still too far from the target, etc. are all important.


Yes, I have been doing the above and really think people should utilize the slow down method and gradually bring past native spoken speed and then bring back down again. I do this with Assmil already using a free web transcription tool called otranscribe.com. It helps me a lot but when I hear my own videos I still think I have a LONG way to go. As this is my first foreign language it seems like this is just natural process one may encounter. I will keep trucking along :!:
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    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

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joecleland
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:24 pm

DaveAgain wrote:
joecleland wrote:
Lingoda has a 90-day marathon where they only require you to log on and speak with a native speaker for 1 hour a day for 90 consecutive days and they refund you everything back. If you mess up even once you do not receive this very expensive refund. They provide homework and at the end of their curriculum you earn a CEFR Certificate for attending 90% or more of the leveled classes. It’s pretty interesting.
I think Mamapata has signed up for this. Do they refund EVERYTHING? I seem to recall browsing the website, and seeing a partial refund being offered.


So, it looks like there are some grumpy people that blame connectivity issues, no-open classes because they waited until the last minute, or had a family emergency. The option for 90 days is for a complete 100% refund. The safer route people are choosing is the 45-day option to receive 50% of a refund upon completion.
0 x
    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

    Currently Using
    Lingoda Level A1 - 100 hours
  • A1.1 - 40/50 Hours Complete (80%)
  • A1.2 - 0/50 Hours Complete (0%)

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joecleland
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:26 pm

Klara wrote:
I am ready to start actively reading. I feel this is one my biggest challenges. When I see the words, I know what they mean, but my pronunciation is all over the place. If anyone has suggestions how to practice or work through this, please let me know.

What helped me most and still helps me:

Graded readers with audio, I always listen first and read afterwards, then listen again. Can't give you recommendations because I use French/German readers.

Dictations, any texts on your level. The software WorkAudioBook is a great tool for that purpose, but I guess that Anki is also an option.

Podcasts with transcripts, again I listen first, then read and look up some unknown words and finally listen again. French radio like French Inter, France info, France culture have short podcasts with 80-95% transcripts.

Good luck with your learning!

Thank you so much. I have never heard of WorkAudioBook. I will check this out. I think I will need to start with audio books as you've mentioned until I feel a little more comfortable with pronunciation.
0 x
    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

    Currently Using
    Lingoda Level A1 - 100 hours
  • A1.1 - 40/50 Hours Complete (80%)
  • A1.2 - 0/50 Hours Complete (0%)

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joecleland
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:35 pm

Adrianslont wrote:I will add https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/932662308. It sorted out some of my pronunciation/listening problems and you seem to like anki. And it’s not really a grind - it’s a bit each day, drawing your attention to issues and sorting them out.

This is exactly what I needed. I am downloading this now. Thank you very much for this.

You often mention that you find Assimil both great and a grind - I have the same feelings about it and about a linguaphone course I did for Indonesian.

I might have said this before - You don’t have to finish it! As long as you are disciplined about what you replace it with I don’t think it matters if you don’t actually finish things. I really admire your discipline and it will serve you well but I believe the benefit comes from putting in the time with appropriate materials each day rather than getting to the last page of every book/course you use. Doing 70% of a couple of courses will be great and then if you only watch 70% of Buffy or Star Trek or whatever you do next, that also will be great. If doing 100% of Assimil is going to kill your enthusiasm, change.


I think my biggest trouble is knowing what is the right resource for me?! I look at the Harry Potter book I have and know I am not ready for that. I am humbled quickly :lol: Assimil definitely burns me out but I will finish it (even one day) or it will dry me crazy. I am okay with putting a pause on it to mix things up. I often hear people state to jump into native material after Assimil but feel my pronunciation needs some work and was thinking about pausing Assimil and going back to Pimsleur Level 2 - 1 Lesson every day and work through Glossika every day (10 new sentences Reading, Listening, Writing, and Speaking). They have a Spaced Repetition thing that prompts you to review previous sentences just like Assimil. It's a little different as everything is done on the PC and some phrases are just "Je dormais".

I would avoid doing reading to the exclusion of listening at this stage - that’s why the idea of podcasts with transcripts is such a good one. Heads up: it seems Balades podcasts will disappear end of this month - I would investigate and if you like them, download audio and scripts before that happens.

I will go ahead and download the Balades as I feel this will benefit me very soon. Thank you!
1 x
    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

    Currently Using
    Lingoda Level A1 - 100 hours
  • A1.1 - 40/50 Hours Complete (80%)
  • A1.2 - 0/50 Hours Complete (0%)

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joecleland
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:40 pm

siouxchief wrote:Can I ask Joe (or anybody else) do you listen and read one more time before trying to translate from L1 to L2 during the active phase?

I see the advice in my book is to listen and read first but I wondered would it be more advantageous for my memory recall to have a try translating without listening again....

For the Active Phase, I just look at the English sentences and rifle through each one from memory (without listening- i know ill advised) but will try to make it through the end. If I mess up on let's say number 3 of 10 sentences I re-learn number 3 then start back at sentence 1 until I can go through the entire 10 sentences without messing up. Then after I complete everything I look at the English sentences but play the audio shadowing the sentences in French. Translating on the fly. I hope that makes sense. I know everyone has their own way of doing things this is just what I have been doing.
2 x
    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

    Currently Using
    Lingoda Level A1 - 100 hours
  • A1.1 - 40/50 Hours Complete (80%)
  • A1.2 - 0/50 Hours Complete (0%)

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joecleland
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Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:47 pm

Arnaud wrote:
joecleland wrote: Here is my 4-month progress video [first 2 minutes]: https://youtu.be/vlQfNVJoOgY
Please don’t be shy as I am very open to comments, constructive criticism, etc.

Can I say that your pronounciation of "bienvenue" is wrong in all your videos (please don't kill me :lol: )
Otherwise, your progression is very impressive and it's not difficult to understand you even if you're a little weak on the vowels (you mix a lot of sounds like a/an/on, u/eu/ou, etc, but that's normal at this stage of learning and that doesn't prevent the understanding)


HAHA how embarrassing. You know, I am really glad you told me this. There is a podcast I listen to almost everyday Je Parle Baguette - Charles and he does his intro like "bonjour tout le monde et bienvenue". I admittingly went onto http://www.forvo.com and listened to about 5 natives say it after reading this. I still couldn't figure out what I was saying wrong. I had to slow it down but found out I was saying 'bwen-ven-ue" instead of "be-inn-ven-ue"! I promise you this one will stick...thank you for helping me along with that :oops:

I will say I never worked on vowels or pronunciation other than the first 30 lessons of Pimsleur. I think I need to revisit and work on this. I am happy to hear that I am 'not difficult to understand' as I know it will only get better as time passes. I wanted to thank you again for help pointing this mistake out!
4 x
    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

    Currently Using
    Lingoda Level A1 - 100 hours
  • A1.1 - 40/50 Hours Complete (80%)
  • A1.2 - 0/50 Hours Complete (0%)

User avatar
joecleland
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Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:09 am
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Languages: English (N), French (A1/A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 18#p147718
x 224

Re: Learning French (self-study) - Joe Cleland

Postby joecleland » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:49 pm

Gustav Aschenbach wrote:I think your French is really great for only 4 months! Quite impressive and totally comprehensible.

Thank you very much Gustav!!
2 x
    Complete
  • Pimsleur French 1
  • Fluent Forever 625 Word List
  • Assimil NFWE - 77/113 Lessons (68%)
  • iTalki Conversations - 26 Hours

    Currently Using
    Lingoda Level A1 - 100 hours
  • A1.1 - 40/50 Hours Complete (80%)
  • A1.2 - 0/50 Hours Complete (0%)


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