alaart's log (Chinese, Korean)

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alaart
Green Belt
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
Languages: DE (N), EN
B1: NL, JP, PT (BR), ZH
A2: KR
A1: ES
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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Korean Update

Postby alaart » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:25 pm

So last week I focused on grammar, I finished the Korean From Zero Course 1. And I must say, that it worked better for me than the howtostudykorean course (I think I stopped on lesson 19 in June), but that might just stem from the fact, that I did it much later.

Enough grammar for now. Last week there was not much language exchange, but this week I'll do 6 times - so nearly every day. I'll also try to have a look at other input means, maybe some songs, or some easy videos or Netflix - will very likely be too difficult, but I'll just give it a try. My aim would be to get conversational to some degree before I leave Japan. Studying in Japan is good because it shares a time zone with Korea, so doing language exchange is convenient, from Germany it will be much more difficult.

Japanese does help in an indirect way, not like you would expect with cognates, but just with the general logic.

My pronunciation is still bad, I think I fixed ㄹ , but I now have to spent some time on the difference of single and double consonants like ㄲㄱ , I think I'm starting to hear the difference, but pronunciation is not correct. In Chinese 2 years ago, I did some dictation, where I would write without the subtitle what I heard , and then compare it with the subtitle.. - this is very time intensive but would certainly get the job done here too, if only I had more motivation for pronunciation. For now getting sentences out while speaking and vocabulary seem to be more important.

Korean is currently the motor that pulls me out of depression and gives me the energy to tackle other things, so I can't really stop learning it - still some weeks of vacation remaining, but reality is knocking. I have also been focusing on health and I try to do sport every day, trying to get rid of my chronic pain at least partially. I went to the hospital, but I think I have to go again.
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alaart
Green Belt
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
Languages: DE (N), EN
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A1: ES
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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Korean Update

Postby alaart » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:23 am

I did the next couple lessons on Korean from Zero. And did around 7 or so language exchanges and added most vocabularies from there to Anki, so vocabulary should be growing. Have not found the time to watch much video material. I watched a bit the "Super Easy Korean" series of Easy languages on youtube and could understand it. Tried normal videos, but understood next to nothing.

Since Taiwanese and Korean borders remain close I booked a flight back to Germany for the end of November. There I will take the HSK3 , and will start preparing for it from now on, alongside the Korean language exchanges. I had one Chinese language exchange, my tones seem off and it was hard to understand me, my exchange partner wasn't too patient and switched to English immediately.

I read some stuff on North Korea, I find this actually much more interesting than starting to get interested in K-Pop.


More language exchanges upcoming, also more organization.
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alaart
Green Belt
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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Korean Summary & Chinese Restart & Semester Start

Postby alaart » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:39 pm

Korea had its 추석 holidays, and everybody had some time to talk with me. So I used the opportunity and had like 8 language exchanges in 7 days. Was exhausting and after the 5th, I was not talking anything that made much sense I guess but just tired gibberish. I also tried watching some videos again.

Anyway, German university is starting soon - and I will be very busy. My honeymoon with Korean will be over in no time. It is a shame, since I feel that I'm very close to a breakthrough. I'm reducing my study time now, and putting that in organization and other stuff I have to take care of. I will drop most of my language exchanges. I have one language exchange who is a native in Korean and Chinese, and fluent in Japanese (very handy) - and we switched to Chinese last week.

So Korean Summary:
I studied from around 15th March until 10th June, and then again intensively from late July to now. So a bit more than 5 month of intensive study, I would say 2-3 hours on average per day. I have around 3000 cards in Anki, a lot of are sample sentences, maybe I have a vocabulary of 1000 words. I can say simple things like what I do, did and will do - can and can't do, and want to do. I can conjugate verbs quickly, that's good. I cannot really talk about experiences still, I often don't understand a reply. I can't pronounce Korean correctly, but I'm starting to hear the differences in the letters at least. Korean videos, very difficult.

Korean language exchange, I had around 12 study partners, maybe even more. Of which with around 4 I had very good experiences, all girls. I must say that I had bad experiences with men. my first 3 partners where men and dropped me quickly without a reason, another two men stood me up and didn't keep their scheduled time, and the last one is nice - but so busy, that he only had time every now and then. I have similar experiences from my other languages, so that's why I tried to get male speakers this time. I guess male to male conversation needs a higher language level to be interesting? Any opinions?

Korean Grammar approach: I just read howtostudykorean and KorenFromZero, and I googled the occasional question in Japanese and used some Japanese sites. My approach was this: Read the grammar, and I wouldn't understand - but I would move on anyway. I just put in sample sentences with audio in Anki and repeat them everyday. And over time I would learn the grammar patterns, kind of without understanding them.
This worked for some grammar, (mostly verb conjugations), but not for other grammar patterns. Well, for me studying grammar is so exhausting so this was kind of my way to go around it. I don't know if it was a good way or not. Actually I feel kind of stupid. There were some Japanese learners here in my class who just needed to hear a grammar pattern once, and would use it correctly right after that. Crazy.

-------------------

Chinese is gonna be the new focus, I registered for HSK3, which will be difficult. Although my Chinese level should be higher, I have to finally learn simplified Chinese °_°, I downloaded a lot of sample exam's and I'll take Chinese classes on HSK3/4 level in University. I already took those classes back in 2018, but I failed the exam because of simplified Chinese (for homework etc. we always had both, only in the exam we didn't). So I'll have to learn it now the hard way. Also my classmates who are now a year above me are having a private course, and they invited me to join. I will join, but most likely this course will be too difficult since everybody was in China or Taiwan in the meantime.

There are also Japanese university classes, I'm a bit undecided how much I should take. Or if I should even ignore Japanese. There is financial pressure now and I probably need to job too. It is unclear if I can get a scholarship for this semester (I applied though), although if I do my best with Chinese, I can get one for next year. So focus should be more on Chinese, but I'm close to Graduating in my Japanese bachelor. I will consult with most of my friends this week, had a talk with my parents who are against everything I do - so whatever. Course registration will close next week, so that's when I will have to decide.
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alaart
Green Belt
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
Languages: DE (N), EN
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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Re: alaart's log (JP/CN, but currently mainly KR)

Postby alaart » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:11 pm

So.. I have been very busy with organization. Canceled most of my language exchanges, only had 3 last week, and this week only two.

I spoke with my old teachers, and set the things in motion to get the Chinese scholarship. Could be difficult to move to China next year due to Corona, but I will try. Also spoke with my old classmates, everybody is very supportive of me getting back into Chinese, and I feel welcome.

Ah, one thing that is unclear is, where in China I should move to. Places in mind right now are Shanghai, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Heifei - this kind of area. Or maybe Qingdao or Beijing - but I will for sure pick an area where Mandarin is dominant, so no city in the South. I have to pick 3 Universities until end of November.

I have not studied much, I spoke Chinese 1 time this week, and I watched a bit of a travel vlog in Chinese, this is a group that traveled North Korea (like the restricted tour guides, but I think they will show more to Chinese tourists than to Westerners). And they subtitle their videos in Chinese, very helpful - especially since I need to learn the simplified Chinese letters now. This is also my first time hearing North Korean in those videos. Not, that I understand anything :lol: - but I would definitely say that to learn stuff about North Korea interests me more than K-Pop. I have been to South Korea 3 years ago, very spontaneous to attend the wedding of a friend. I didn't prepare and understood nothing. I also tried translating some K-Pop songs too, still work in progress.

So yes, Korean is also still ongoing. I was planning to drop Korean and not study, but after a couple days I learned again. Apparently I feel like shit if I only do stuff I have to do, so I need to study something I like to feel free and relax. Weird right?
4 x

alaart
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Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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University starting & struggling with Chinese characters

Postby alaart » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:48 am

Oh dear, university is starting in a couple days and I'm so busy.

So for Japanese we will follow the book みんなの日本語中級I (Minna no nihongo chuukyuu I) - and I'll have to start doing some book exercises, and study the grammar for class. It should be below my current level, but I still have to attend classes and put time into it. There is certainly stuff to learn and deepen, review and relearn. So it will be useful.

For the advanced Chinese course I will be taking.. the first assignment is reading this article on patriotism in education from the peoples daily. Holy shit, is this difficult. I just translated the first paragraph with a dictionary yesterday, and it took me 2-3 hours. This course will be so far outside my comfort zone.

I noticed, my lack of reading is hurting me now. Although I sort of "know" most characters, as in "have seen them before somewhere" and would maybe recognize them in context and get the meaning right, I still "don't know" them really. The recognition is slow, if I see them without a familiar context I just stare at them puzzled. I cannot write them. I forgot many readings, and tones. Often times I look up a character and think: "Hm, that's a new character" - but if I input it in my Anki database, it will show that I have studied this character in both Japanese and Chinese before and learned at least 15 words containing this character before (note: I deactivated Japanese reviews since March or April, and Chinese reviews since last year). I'm shocked, I have to relearn it - but after I did, the memory is coming back really quickly, to the point where I can even write most characters I have relearned instantly again.

So I hope I can relearn Chinese reading, but it is very work intensive. Another point is: I have to learn all the simplified characters now, and I will do this the hard way, just with texts in context and exercises, not systematically. It is my first time using simplified characters, though if I write them I always write the traditional version first, and follow with the simplified version later. For example for this character: 発 , I would start with this Japanese version, then write the traditional version: 發 , and finally the simplified version 发.

So very work intensive, but it is also a chance to finally get into reading and develop some comfort for characters and really start using them, both for Japanese and for Chinese. So this year, I would think my goal will be to achieve some sort of reading capacity in both languages. - speaking Chinese is still fine I guess, I forgot a lot of tones, but I think they will come back if I'm in an environment, where I will hear the correct tones and listen to Chinese being spoken.

Korean..! Had my last two language exchanges last week. And from my 7 study partners I will from now on keep 2, and alternate between them, so I will speak once per week. My goal will be to just not forget, I will continue doing my daily Anki set of those words, that is 30 minutes of reviews more or less. Anki has now blown up because I have to write like 50 characters or more, and also have like 200 words already in Chinese and Japanese containing these words, but this is "relearning", so I guess it will not be as work intensive as normal Anki learning, which is with new material.

The other stuff I am busy is, is organizing my return to Germany. So: Busy times ahead, I'm under a lot of pressure, at times I'm desperate, but I spoke to most of my close friends recently, and I just received a lot of support from everybody, and I think I will be going strong. :arrow: - forward it is!
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alaart
Green Belt
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
Languages: DE (N), EN
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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Simplified Chinese - what was I afraid of?

Postby alaart » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:58 pm

I set aside the difficult text for now - lets see if the other students in the course can read this comfortably, or if it is just me. Maybe it is the teacher testing our level out. I may be among the worst, or even the worst student in class. We will see on Monday.

I continued studying simplified characters, by going through old messenger chats I had with native Chinese, and I copied out all the simplified characters I didn't know and compared and wrote them.. (normally I was lazy, often pasted the chats into a converter or dictionary, so I could read the simplified characters - and then I responded using traditional characters)

I think I have gone through around 80 characters by now. And after the ones I studied today I noticed I am already starting to read, and get more comfortable quickly. The simplifications make a lot of sense if one has studied the traditional version before.

So the lesson is, I should have just studied this a lot earlier - I just hid in my cozy comfort zone.
I will continue what I am doing tomorrow, and I will have a lot of classes on Monday. But on Tuesday my goal will be to start doing sample exams.

P.S. As this is kind of a clear goal, getting to HSK3 in the remaining 6 weeks, I guess I will post more often.
3 x

alaart
Green Belt
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:58 am
Location: Kaoshiung
Languages: DE (N), EN
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=10867
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University Start

Postby alaart » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm

University started. I had 6 hours of Chinese and 2 hours of Japanese today. I also did 3 hours of homework. This was by far the most intensive study day since a long time, but for some reason it makes me happy. :mrgreen:

It is also nice to meet new classmates, I think everybody is very skilled and eager to learn, nice environment.

The Japanese course level is not high, probably lower than the level of the course I had in Japan, but I still have to take it to graduate. And there are always some points I have to review, also good that it forces me to write Japanese. I have not written Japanese since the beginning of Corona.

The Chinese intermediate course, where I had 4 hours, is a bit difficult, due to me not knowing simplified Chinese very well, and there are a lot of nuances to pick up and things to review. But at least on the listening part I think I will be fine. I will have 4 hours of intermediate Chinese 4 times per week - so with this course I will spent the most time.

Then the advanced Chinese course, of which I have only one per week. Here, like expected my level is far below the course, and I have to heavily prepare the texts in advance and study all the words intensively, and pre-translate. I don't think I can keep up with the course in the long run, but for now I will try to continue and take away something from it. The good thing is that this forces me to jump into written material, and my goal should be to be able to read at some point, so maybe this will help soften my fear and push me a bit into the right direct.

I also downloaded Anki decks for HSK3 which I want to go through. I'm starting to reorganize to make more study time. Will probably sacrifice social life, sport and other stuff and live really unhealthy for the next 6 weeks :D
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alaart
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First week of Chinese classes done

Postby alaart » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:52 pm

So the first week is done, I'll have 12 lectures every week.

Surprisingly, as I go back to the class book. I have not used some expressions I learned before in Chinese, and have never kind of missed or noticed them. I think I talk around them in some way, maybe a phenomena of starting to talk early.
A lot of class vocabulary is totally gone, even though I know I have studied them before, crazy - probably I just crammed them in my memory, but never used them.
There are some grammar mistakes in my Chinese, which the teachers correct. Great! (my Chinese language exchange partners may have let them slip by). Also there are wrong tones all over the place.
I have to relearn writing, and I just went through most of the HSK1 characters really quickly in 2-3 days. Plan to do this with the HSK2 characters next. I have not written characters since the beginning of the pandemic, expect maybe at the doctors place, or for filling out documents.

So a lot of repair work to do, homework will probably take around 10-15 hours, but I don't really have a social life recently, so that doesn't matter.

My class is full of motivated learners. Everybody is very friendly. Some students in my class already took the HSK3, others will take it with me in 1 month. So that's great, I don't have to struggle alone.
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alaart
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Weekend study

Postby alaart » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Weekend full of study:
This is so intense, most of the texts for the classes are in simplified Chinese - and I'm not used to it, and don't recognize a lot of the characters. I studied / relearned around 50 characters yesterday. For the exam I now have 200 of the 600 characters covered for the HSK3 (and I can write them in all variations (Simplified, Traditional, Japanese - if the character has variations).

But for homework and university texts there are so many other characters appearing, that I cannot study / relearn them all for now, and I have marked a lot of the text with Pinyin, just to get through the lessons. Maybe this is better anyway, go through a lot of texts in context.

I also have forgotten a lot of vocabulary. The textbook covers "room interiors" this time. In general the vocabulary is always thematic. I remember I learned some of those words before, but did I ever use them? No, I didn't - and that's how I forgot them, the characters and the tones. Re-studying something I once know previously is a bit demotivating. Today I had to review 一..., 就 - because I forgot it :roll:

I had conversation in Chinese today.. speaking is rusty too, but far from my rustiness in reading. I might even use grammar and vocabulary while speaking, which I don't recognize while reading.

Oh, and I'll skip Japanese classes for the next 1-2 weeks. Maybe this will help, I'll gain a couple hours here and there. My teachers won't like it, but I should be able to catch up the Japanese class material easily later.
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tangleweeds
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Re: Weekend study

Postby tangleweeds » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:36 pm

alaart wrote:I remember I learned some of those words before, but did I ever use them? No, I didn't - and that's how I forgot them, the characters and the tones. Re-studying something I once know previously is a bit demotivating.
I think the categories of "know" "remember" & "forget", rather than being distinct states, are more of a continuum on which is always sliding around in a potentially disconcerting manner. So I find it more helpful to imagine working with memory as adjusting a slider, like on an old-school mixing board--oops, need to turn up the volume again on this thing I "used to know".

I'm kind of a neuropsych geek, and they now say that all that information is still in your memory (which is how you recognize the "used to know" state), and the problem is just establishing more reliable access. That's why recall testing, as in Anki, is so helpful.

alaart wrote:Oh, and I'll skip Japanese classes for the next 1-2 weeks. Maybe this will help, I'll gain a couple hours here and there. My teachers won't like it, but I should be able to catch up the Japanese class material easily later.
Can you email your professor to explain that? I don't know about other countries, but the college I attended is known for producing future PhDs so half my friends are now university profs, and they really appreciate any kind of communication from students that isn't "change my grade so I don't flunk".
"I am lost" is fine, they're used to that.
"Life is getting in the way" is actually a very common point for starting discussions, as they want their students to succeed.
but
"I'm trying to balance several longterm self-motivated plans of study, please help me juggle" is music to their ears.
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