To Catch an Aurora: On Top of the World (Language Rendezvous)

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Hi Ho, Timber! The Adventures of A Lumberjack

Postby eido » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:42 pm

Since I’m on a roll with reflecting on my learning, I thought I’d reflect on Spanish.

I’ve repeated on this forum my story a lot in various wordings of how I got started with Spanish, so I won’t get into it again.

But I’ve never actually described how I used a translator to check my work, and it’s not for lack of trying. I just didn’t know how.

So, basically, what I did is I’d write a sentence using my best guess (and my noodle) and in the early days I’d input the phrase into SpanishDict and compare the three outputs. I gradually taught myself grammar by observing patterns, those which I’d apply in written compositions on Lang-8 for honing. Meaning, I’d use what I learned on Lang-8 for later writing. This required careful consideration of correction and asking a lot of questions, the answers to which were often only in Spanish (thereby making me quite curious as to how to express myself with as much ease as the natives). In later times, I’d make mental guesses and translate from English to Spanish and back in my mind as opposed to a physical one in the text field.

I did that for such a long time that there’s not that much to talk about... but you all did see my growth in Spanish in real time on this forum. It was like a bean seed shooting up.

My learning of Spanish was a beautiful dovetail. It was a self-fueled, self-learning process. I’m still not done, but the majority of work I’ve done to this point came naturally and still flows at a steady rate. I don’t think this could’ve happened with any other language. I’m proud I chose it and what I’ve done.

I’ve decided that in regard to Korean, I’ll just have to bite the bullet and copy sentence patterns until I’m comfortable. I don’t mind this, but nowadays it’s a question of time—and yes, you make time for what you love, but I haven’t learnt to manage it all yet.

I also found an English learning station on TuneIn, geared to Korean native learners. It’s broadcast by EBS (Education Broadcast System) in the early morning KST. There are two hosts: one a native English speaker, and another a fluent English speaker (it seems). They speak and go back and forth between the two languages. I liked the 10 or so minutes I listened to of it. I’m also practicing my reading speed and prosody by reading “interactive” lyrics on live k-pop performances. It helps give me an idea of word order and where pauses belong.

As I wrote this I listened to RMF Polski Hip Hop, and it’s pretty jammin’. If only I knew what they were saying! I’m getting a better feel for the patterns of the language, though (i.e. rhymes).
6 x

User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Hi Ho, Timber! The Adventures of A Lumberjack

Postby eido » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:14 pm

I’m updating this log in the morning, but for the sole reason to log exactly everything I’ve been doing as it’s pretty sporadic and decently varied.

- Polski Hip Hop — listening semi intensively without looking anything up, but trying to gain purchase while going in blind. Have seen some progress in that I’m remembering some words from the bulletin messages and various raps. I do remember some of their meaning, too. I’m trying to learn by the usage of context. In the mornings if I have free time, I let the radio play through my earbuds for hours until I need a break from this one. I try to memorize word construction, flow, and where one begins and ends.

- Mini sentence diagramming of Korean phrases — I’m doing my best to figure out what word goes with what by using different colored pens, to make sure I have the word order right. I think this will help when it comes time to speak more. Automaticity, you know? Right now I have more of an instinctive feel for where things go, but in order to progress to higher levels, I think I’ll need some formal instruction.

I’m continuing with reading k-pop lyrics because it helps me keep track of words. About a year ago, maybe longer, I talked about transcribing my favorite k-pop songs from albums I knew well. I think I’m ready to do that now, now that I know the songs well. I don’t know them perfectly, but I can sing along to them much better than 5 years ago when I was singing gibberish. I’m closer to literate now, and I can make a one-to-one with the spoken language and the written one much better.

I’m also way better with a Korean keyboard than ever. Typing the same few questions over and over with slight variations has really helped solidify my skills in typing Hangul because of the repetition. I’m pretty comfortable with the iOS keyboard for Korean now. (Up next is getting my computer to cooperate with 한글.)

- French classes and French radio — I take a French class each week, and thanks to this forum I’ve been able to keep up and even excel. Up ‘til now I’ve known most concepts that the teacher has covered, just by reading extensively on this forum. I frequently help students that struggle, and the teacher calls on me to be a model even though I’m a true beginner just like most of my classmates.

I talk about linguistic ideas and simplify them for everyone to understand if the teacher needs help. There’s always more I could learn, though :ugeek: I also am keeping up with the Quebecois radio as well as radio from France. I hope to add dictées and slow French podcasts soon. I’m trying to get a feel for the words, and I generally have it, but in solo “performance,” or pronunciation exercises in the class I can be hit or miss. My R has gotten a lot better, though!

- I’m trying to get better at the Germanic family, and now I have some more immediate concrete motivation than just my imaginary, far-off trip to Iceland or Norway. One of my co-workers has roots in Norway dating back to the 1700s and when they immigrated to the United States, they brought with them a bunch of Norwegian artifacts that were later lost in a fire.

Except, of course, for a bible, which is the centerpiece of this story. My co-worker offered to let me read the bible and hold it in my hands if I learned the language of his ancestors to a high level. “Let me know when you’ve got a handle on it,” he said. Now I wouldn’t be interested if we weren’t on good terms or I didn’t like Nordic languages. But this sounds really worth it.

So I’ll be trying to add those to the mix in small doses or however I can. They give me a confidence and energy boost when I’ve tapped out due to diminishing reserves from Korean. And they were one of my first “passions,” so it makes it all the more merry!
8 x

User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Hi Ho, Timber! The Adventures of A Lumberjack

Postby eido » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:23 pm

What I've managed today and a bit of yesterday:

- I listened to about an hour of RFI, just letting the language wash over me naturally and trying to catch the occasional word as much as I could. I chose talk radio because at this point, sounds in sung French are too hard to distinguish with consistent accuracy. It could be the liaison or the speed; I'm not sure. If I can get ICI Quebec Musique to play on my browser, I'll alternate throughout the day between talk and music. I like ICI because they have a decent amount of French content. More on that in a moment. They play a good variety of music, from dance to indie.

- I got back into Icelandic Online, and I found I understood much more than before, so I'm making it my mission to go at a slow and steady pace to complete it. I tried listening to some Icelandic radio, and I got some good indie pop hits... however they were mixed with 70s American disco and 80s ballads. Perfectly Icelandic of the station, but still irksome for someone wanting to brush up on their ability to digest the sounds of the island's beautiful language. I searched in Faroese for children's shows, and there aren't any uploaded to YouTube, but there are some in Icelandic: namely Lazy Town. I believe the creator is (or was--he died [he played the character of Sportacus]) Icelandic, and it originally aired in English but was dubbed in Icelandic. I found several episodes to watch, unsubbed, or should I say, not subbed in any language, but using the Icelandic track.

I can understand most stories without understanding the words behind them, but I would still like to understand the language used in this show. It sounds fairly simple as opposed to some Icelandic I've heard, but it's not quite as simple as the Icelandic in IOL, so I'd peg it as B1 for the learner of it. I watched about 10 minutes of it last night, and I didn't catch many words in the sense of meaning, but I've always been good at picking out word boundaries in this language because I started learning it as a teenager. So instead of a whole lot of mush or blah blah, I heard real Icelandic. I've studied Icelandic on and off for such a long time, I know the basics pretty well. I'm on Bálkur #2, Þráður #3 with IOL. Let's hope my renewed propulsion in that direction will carry me forward to a more advanced level at a faster pace.

- I found a good podcast in Faroese on TuneIn that seems to be an almost daily news broadcast called "Dagur og vika" ("Day and Week"). I listened to a half hour bit from them and I've gotten more used to spoken Faroese. Before I was just playing with flashcards on Memrise that had pronunciation built in. But now I have real native input.

I hope to keep my globe-trotting adventure afoot as I listen to broadcasts daily and actively study all my languages up toward fluency.

Oh, yeah! I almost forgot. I'm going to be reading more on linguistic theory as part of my weekly "homework" (study). That way I'll have the ultimate power: knowledge! :idea:
6 x

User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Hi Ho, Timber! The Adventures of A Lumberjack

Postby eido » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:55 pm

I remembered previously that I had been thinking of doing language days. Themed days, you know? One day for Germanic, one day for East Asian, that type of thing.

I'm trying to make a master schedule of all the things I have to do, language or otherwise, and promise myself to follow it to the letter. My schedule is always changing, and as a person that likes to plan, I find it a little maddening.

I'm proud to say that this site has helped develop the language habit in me. When I first joined, my efforts weren't concerted enough to help me make reasonable progress. But now language is constantly on my mind--the habit is ingrained. Otherwise, I wouldn't have this big improvement plan in the works.

Once I settle completely into it, I should be making steady progress.

I have a few different possibilities in mind for these planned days and thoughtful study.

1) Grouped by family or region
  • Germanic
  • East Asian
  • Romance
  • Slavic
2) Grouped by knowledge level
  • Korean/Spanish
  • Japanese/Nordic family
  • Chinese/Polish etc.
3) Grouped by ease (as a native English speaker)
  • Norwegian/Spanish
  • French/German etc.
Or a combination of all three for maximum enjoyment and concentration level.

As it stands all three are appealing, though some groups within the categories are harder to work with, so maybe I'll select one or two from within the three and be a little choosy.

@AndyMeg's recent post to her log reminded me of my sentence diagramming experiment, since she was using that "learning with k-pop" site. So I decided to post my work and comment on the site's content, since I find it a little lacking from the excerpts she posted. I don't have anything against Ms. Meg or her choice (she's a free human being, after all); I simply wish content for learners out there would get improved for their benefit.
IMG_0567.jpg
IMG_0567.jpg (72.63 KiB) Viewed 319 times

In both the attached files, you'll see sentences I copied from Q&A Sentence Patterns of TTMIK. I then proceeded to break them down into their component parts, such as into verbal nouns, nouns, copula, etc. I tried to find the main idea of each sentence both thematically/conceptually, and then I tried to find it grammatically to see where the two met. Some of the sentences in the English diagram look really weird, and that's only because I didn't get a hang of re-wiring the Korean sentences until the second round of copying and re-conceptualizing.
IMG_0566.jpg
IMG_0566.jpg (87.2 KiB) Viewed 319 times

Since this book also offers similarly patterned sentences to the one that heads the chapter, I also took those down and tried to compare them to see how the syntax and semantics were different. I wanted to see how I could get a more native sound, and how I could understand native Koreans better.

I think I got pretty close to what the actual syntactic meanings of sentences were. Someone more knowledgeable than me in Korean can comment.

The reason I don't like the site AndyMeg posted (at least in regard to the BTS song she posted) is because they use translations from the official BigHit account and in my opinion they can be a little lackluster. Their literal translations all seem not so literal, but rather gibberish. The way I do mine, I leave much of the semantic meaning intact so that if I go back and read it, I can understand my work and glean more knowledge on the subject and how to better my work. The translations at that site don't tell you what things mean. Guesswork is never fun in the beginning stages, especially if it's one of the first languages you've learnt or don't enjoy it.

My reading speed in Korean has gotten quite fast, as I can just glance over words now and for the most part know exactly what word they're corresponding to in a song. BTS has some challenging songs if we think about listening comprehension (I'm thinking about "Dionysus" right now), but this compilation shows some of their clearer, more enunciated compositions. The songs are also catchy and in this particular case, "I'm Fine" and "Save Me" are a pair. But "Idol" is so fast!

I don't get a lot of time to listen alone to music, so when I do get the chance to be alone and just listen, I normally sing along. Recently, I've been using the lyrics built in to the videos on MCountdown or MBCKpop so it's a bit like karaoke.

I'm listening to a select set of songs and I'll be analyzing my few using my own methods once I get a good handle on them; primarily, I'll focus on grammar.

As you'll note, I'm a person very focused on grammar aspects of language. That's why I started to study more linguistics this week. I studied just enough so that I wouldn't get burnt out.

Now, I'd like to unveil a project of mine. I signed up for the Super Challenge (and subsequently dropped out), but something about it just irks me... no offense to the creators or the participants. I just don't think I fit in with the requirements or goals of it, but I like the spirit. So I decided to come up with my own, as I'd tried to in the past. (And failed. But that's why we live! To have more chances to succeed.)

I enjoy Jeopardy (and the SNL skits parodying it), so I'm calling my little invention the "Daily Double" challenge.

In this challenge, you can cover whatever areas you what to cover, such as writing or speaking. But it has to be on a daily (or whatever goal you set) basis. If you manage to get all your goals done within a day, you get points toward a reward that you can buy yourself later on. If you complete all your weekly goals, you can double the prizes you get. The challenge last for an even number of weeks, and ideally lasts more than two.

I'm going to commit to reading an article of Korean news every day. I might add more as time goes on. But I am busier now, so let's see how things turn out.

To planning!
3 x

AndyMeg
Blue Belt
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (B2-C1), Japanese (A2-B1), Korean (Upper-Beginner?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15829
x 1081

Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby AndyMeg » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:39 pm

eido wrote:@AndyMeg's recent post to her log reminded me of my sentence diagramming experiment, since she was using that "learning with k-pop" site. So I decided to post my work and comment on the site's content, since I find it a little lacking from the excerpts she posted. I don't have anything against Ms. Meg or her choice (she's a free human being, after all); I simply wish content for learners out there would get improved for their benefit.

eido wrote:The reason I don't like the site AndyMeg posted (at least in regard to the BTS song she posted) is because they use translations from the official BigHit account and in my opinion they can be a little lackluster. Their literal translations all seem not so literal, but rather gibberish. The way I do mine, I leave much of the semantic meaning intact so that if I go back and read it, I can understand my work and glean more knowledge on the subject and how to better my work. The translations at that site don't tell you what things mean. Guesswork is never fun in the beginning stages, especially if it's one of the first languages you've learnt or don't enjoy it.


I understand why you prefer the way you work with Korean sentences. But I also want to share with you my point of view:

As I said in the first post of my current log, I'm currently taking a more laid back approach to language learning. I just want to take things easy and have fun while dabbling in different languages. That's one of the reasons why I decided to use the "Learn Korean through K-pop" website. It gives me just enough material to learn from it, but it doesn't go too deep or get overcomplicated, which is exactly what I'm looking for at this very moment.

Just as an example, let's analyze one sentence with the material that website provides:

난 슬퍼도 기쁜 척 할 수가 있었어 (G20,80,1,18)
I sad even happy pretend (I) could
( I could pretend like I was happy even when I was
sad.)


Vocabulary:

단어) 난 : I ( a short form of 나는 , 나 : I , 는 : topic marker)
, 슬프다 : to be sad , 기쁘다 : to be happy


Grammar points in order of appearance in the sentence:

20. V/A-아/어/해도 " though, even if"
Conjugate the V/A and add 도. Please refer to K- Grammar basics #3 for conjugation rules.
운동하다 : to exercise 살 빠지다 : to lose weight 안 ~ : not ~
운동해도 살이 안 빠져요. (formal)
->Though (I) do exercise, (I) don't lose weight.

80. V-는 / A- (은)ㄴ 척 하다 " to pretend to V/A"
When the adjective stem in a consonant, add 은. When ending in a vowel or ㄹ, add ㄴ. Without요 at the end, it becomes a casual talk.
모르다: not to know 그 N : that N 사실: truth
그 남자는 그 사실을 모르는 척 해요. -> That guy pretends not to know the truth.
바쁘다 : to be busy , 항상 : always
그 여자는 항상 바쁜 척 해요. -> That woman always pretends to be busy.

1. (을) ㄹ 수 있어요 / 없어요 '' can/ cannot"
When the verb stem ends in a consonant , add (을) 수 있어요/ 없어요 . When ending in a vowel or ㄹ, add ㄹ 수 있어요/ 없어요 . Its infinitive form is (을) 수 있다 / 없다. Without '요' at the end, it becomes casual talk
저: I (formal) 하다 : to do (to speak language) 한국어: Korean language 나: I (causal)
저는 한국어를 할 수 있어요. / 할 수 없어요. (formal)
나는 한국어를 할 수 있어. / 할 수 없어. (causal)
->I can / can't speak Korean.

18. V/A- 았/었/했어요 "past tense"
When the word stem ends in the vowel ㅏ or ㅗ , add -았어요. When ending in any other vowel , add -었어요. For verbs and adjectives ending in 하다, add - 했어요. FYI, Without 요 at the end, it becomes casual talk as always.
만나다 : to meet 지난 주말에 : last weekend 친구: friend 너: you (casual) 점심: lunch 먹다 : to eat
지난 주말에 친구를 만났어요. (formal)
->( I ) met a friend last weekend.
너 점심 먹었어? (casual) -> you lunch ate? - did you eat lunch ?
-하고 결혼하다 : to get married to 남자친구 : boyfriend
남자친구하고 결혼했어. (casual) ->(I) got married to my boyfriend.


슬퍼 수가 있었어 (G20,80,1,18)
I sad even happy pretend (I) could

Does the literal translation make sense? No. So I agree with you that it may look like gibberish.
Does it matter to me? No
Why? Because I just use it as a way to see the individual meaning of each part, as raw as possible. And for that it works as intended without overcomplicating things with technical terms, complex explanations or a different wording. I'm looking for simplicity at its best and I'm getting it.

Now on to the analysis of the sentence with the help of the provided vocabulary and grammar points:

슬퍼기쁜 척 할 수가 있었어 (G20,80,1,18)

난 : I ( a short form of 나는 , 나 : I , 는 : topic marker)
슬프다 : to be sad
기쁘다 : to be happy

난 슬퍼도기쁜 척 할 수가 있었어 (G20,80,1,18)

20. V/A-아/어/해도 " though, even if" --> Even if I (was) sad
80. V-는 / A- (은)ㄴ 척 하다 " to pretend to V/A" + 1. (을) ㄹ 수 있어요 / 없어요 '' can/ cannot" + 18. V/A- 았/었/했어요 "past tense"-->I could pretend that I was happy

My translation after the analysis: Even if I was sad I could pretend that I was happy.
The "pretty" translation provided by the Website: I could pretend like I was happy even when I was sad.

There may be nuances (and other grammar bits) not explained, but that's fine. I'm not looking for them at this moment and I'm sure that if I keep in contact with the language, there'll come a time I'll pay attention to those nuances and deeper meanings. But for now I just want to keep things simple and enjoy the ride.

It's possible that an absolute beginner may need more explanations or a different wording to make sense of it all, but at my current level and with my current laid back approach this Website provides me exactly with what I'm looking for and that's why I'm using it.
4 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2880
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 6522

Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby Iversen » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:03 pm

I don't study Korean so I can't follow this discussion in details. But the use of hyperliteral versus pretty translations here is actually quite instructive. I refer to the example

난 슬퍼도 기쁜 척 할 수가 있었어
I sad even happy pretend (I) could
( I could pretend like I was happy even when I was sad.)

... and as predicted I would be quite confused if I only saw the hyperliteral version. But once I have been told what to look for by the pretty translation it makes sense: first there is an first person which gives the perspective to the whole thing, and the rest falls in two sections. The funny thing is that the order inside each one of those is the opposite of what we see in common Westerlandese: "sad even" (in Westerlandese: 'even (when) sad') and "pretend could" (Westerlandese: '(I) could pretend'). And why bother with the hyperliteral translation if you can get a pretty one? Well, because the hyperliteral version might indicate how the Koreans actually THINK their language, and the sooner you learn to adopt similar thought patterns the better - and a pretty translation doesn't do that. Instead it reinforces the good ol' patterns of your own language, and that can't be healthy for you as a language learner.

OK, I don't know whether it is a general feature of Korean to have the opposite word order inside such phrases, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case. As for the words "like" and "when I was" in the pretty translation they are completely superfluous - just some fillers to soften the shock.
3 x

User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:39 pm

If I upset anyone with my bluntness, I apologize. I just felt the need to review it for the sake of keeping record of my own processes. It was not an attack on the users of the product or service, and not an attack at all. Just a comment on the quality of the product/service and how it compares to what I do.

I've hit another slump with my language learning, but since these cycles come in and out so fast in my life, and since I find them little unnecessary bits that don't deserve to be there, I've learned to persevere. I've given myself a break, and I'm trying to figure out what I could do better next time.

Habit is important to all of us for different reasons. Some of us may need to lose weight because we want to live longer. Some of us may need to hone our bass skills to properly contribute to our orchestra. But it all comes under that neat little theme of habit, which could be a synonym for "want." We usually develop habits for highly personal reasons, some of which we never reveal to others.

I can note some of mine, though.

I need to make sure, long-term, that my mental health is up to par. All this without sacrificing my want to be the very best.

I can't be lazy, but I can't drive myself so hard that I allow myself to crash and burn on the way to success. There has to be a happy medium.

I am ambitious. It's just in my DNA to work incredibly hard once I set my sights on a goal. But arranging my surroundings to properly reflect how badly I want it doesn't come second nature to me. I can be a bit messy about how I proceed. And being trapped into deadlines and certain ways of doing things can be a source of stress.

However, I did make some goals which I want to hold myself to, but don't know if I'll be able to.

This year I want to focus on more distant languages but also progress in the ones I know.

So here are some goals that I thought up, with languages ordered by priority:
  • Spanish: I hope to get to C1+ level by the end of next year (2021). My current level is somewhere between B2-C1.
  • Korean: I hope to get to B2+ level by the end of next year (2021). My current level is B1.
  • Polish: I hope to get to B1 level by March of next year (2021). My current level is A1.
  • French: I hope to get to B1 level by March of next year (2021). My current level is A1.
  • German: I hope to get to B1 level by April of next year (2021). My current level is A1.
  • Japanese: I hope to get to a B2 level by September of next year (2021). My current level is a mystery. I estimate B1.
  • Chinese: I hope to get to a B1 level by September of next year (2021). My current level is a mystery. I estimate A1.
  • The Nordic family: I hope to get to B2 level in both Icelandic and Norwegian (my focus languages) by September of next year (2021). My current level is a mystery. In each, I maybe can pull an A2.
  • Hindi: I hope to get up to B1 level by September of next year (2021). My current level is A1.
  • Burmese: I hope to get up to B1 level by September next year (2021). My current level is A1.
I welcome comments on this plan. It's just a preliminary list and tentative set of goals. In the coming days I'll have thought up some more study plans and plans of action, and I'll be posting those.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really need to talk to people to get the most out of language learning. I love theory and reading about methods, but mostly only so I could apply them or sometimes just for knowledge's sake to be able to advise people. So from this post on I'll be looking for more ways to converse with people and get a handle on conversation, because there's no way any of this is going to stick.

In other news, I translated some of that bible for my co-worker. Turns out it was a wedding gift and got re-gifted (or re-written in) subsequently as different happenings occurred in the couple's lives, like the birth of several children. It came out of a small parish in Norway. The gentleman was telling me he found it shocking that most churches in modern day Norway seem to be historical artifacts rather than active houses of God, but I didn't find it all that surprising considering Norway's a pretty secular country these days. It is a bit of a shame, though, as some of those old churches could be put to good use and made new again. Though, I suppose with their age it might not be such a good idea to pack them with people every Sunday.
4 x

User avatar
cjareck
Blue Belt
Posts: 779
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:11 pm
Location: Poland
Languages: Polish (N) English, German, Russian(B1?) French (B1?), Hebrew(B1?), Arabic(A2?), Mandarin (HSK 1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=8589
x 1621
Contact:

Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby cjareck » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:12 pm

Your plan is extremely ambitious. I don't know how much time you can spend on language learning or how quickly you gain new skills, but it seems that you overestimate your possibilities and get disappointed at the end.

This is based on my experiences with my own ambitious plans that are partially documented in my log ;)
0 x
Please feel free to correct me in any language


HE vocabulary: : 6976 / 10000


MSA DLI : 15 / 141ESKK : 6 / 40 vocabulary : 534 / 2000


Mandarin Assimil : 22 / 105 Vocabulary : 834 / 2000

User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:28 am

cjareck wrote:Your plan is extremely ambitious. I don't know how much time you can spend on language learning or how quickly you gain new skills, but it seems that you overestimate your possibilities and get disappointed at the end.

It is indeed ambitious, and despite my young age, I don't have all the time in the world. But my free time is dedicated to my family and languages and I try to focus very intensely when engaged with those people or that hobby. In this case, I think this famous quote from the anglosphere (attributed to various people) applies:
Peale, Brown, Wilde et al. wrote:Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

People say that's inaccurate since apparently the sun is the closest star to Earth. But I look at it in the more metaphoric sense.

I'll be happy to get at least 1/4 of my goals done.

In the past day since I posted, I think I found a rhythm with my intermediate book from TTMIK. It's a good old-fashioned LR model. I'm planning on spending as many days as it takes on a single dialogue to really absorb it and make sure I catch all the sounds and vocabulary, almost as if I were simulating a class setting with visual and auditory learning styles in mind.

I just really wish I could find more radio that would stream from Korea that wasn't k-pop. I like k-pop to an extent, but my love for it doesn't extend that far. And the music stations I've found from that part of the world specialize in super sugary pop, either from South Korea, Japan, or sometimes Mainland China. I can tolerate the Christian music for a while, but as an agnostic person there's a point where it starts to get a little weird for me as the religious fervor tends to amp up like 12 notches. I always think about the Yoido Full Gospel Church which has more than 100,000 members. I don't know how many are active, though. Now, I realize that's an extreme example and not all Christians are like that but it's sure a sight to see.

Religion in Korea is something I've been meaning to do more research on. I read a book that summarized Korean history once, and I was very intrigued by Korean shamanism, or mudang (female)/baksu (male). In the book, they followed a day in the life of a mudang and it was pretty cool, especially now that Korea is steeped in the modern. Everyone always says that South Korea is a nation divided between old and new, and I imagine this is one of those topics that lends itself well to the discussion of that theme that underscores its society. Does anyone have any recommendations on books or films I could read/watch to find out more not just about this topic, but the country as a whole?

And I keep trudgin' on. The journey is ever-present and I fight every day to make progress. Sometimes it's close to nil, but it's still more than zero, so I'll accept it ;)

Oh, yeah. I got an email from Duolingo saying I'd made Duo sad by not practicing French and I near shed a tear because of the animated crying bird gif. This poor soft-hearted girl can't take the widdle birdy in distress :cry: :lol:
7 x

User avatar
eido
Brown Belt
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:31 pm
Languages: EN*, ES (C1)
x 2116

Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:09 am

When I get bored or need lighter fare to focus on while waiting, I look to Quora to read about a usual set of topics. One of these, as you might guess, is BTS. There are a lot of fans in their 30s and up (old for a k-pop group) that post there, and even though I'm in my early 20s as of this post, I enjoy their content most. Therefore, I always look for it.

In our little sequestered corner of the world's music industry, there's surprisingly a lot to argue about. I'm still a proud fan of the group despite the petty fights that get started by 11 year-olds on their summer vacation or when they should be paying attention in an online quarantine class. (Priorities--education, or BTS?)

A hot topic that has come up recently in the fandom (after multiple waves of circulation) is if BTS will enlist to the South Korean army or be granted a rare leniency due to their contributions to the Korean economy, which we've discussed before. No other k-pop group can claim that fame.

In my current profile photo, I have J-Hope with his "Dynamite" get-up. "Dynamite" is the group's first English language single, and due to massive streaming efforts by young fans, topped the Billboard Hot 100. The A-side (there's a companion, second-take one as well) music video got 100 million views in 24 hours. I had no doubts when it first came out that it would reach the heights that ARMYs intended it to reach. I even contributed my own two views, but mostly because I liked the beat and the colors of a song that was supposed to be fun and summery in a world gone mad. The reason I mentioned the song is because it's estimated to have raked in about a billion dollars for South Korea. Not bad, I say!

I really like the conversational nature of the Quora platform and wish Naver Jishik was a bit more like that, but in true Korean style, it's a wee more stiff.

Because I love reading about k-pop so much, and despite my best efforts to remain objective, I'm going to try to find some blogs on the Korean Interwebs that talk about BTS. I figure they can teach me slang and natural expressions. Naver Jishik is good for bite-sized chunks to learn from on-the-go (mostly to get the gist) or for concentrated study. I also want to see all this hype about how horrible Korean "netizens" ('Internet citizens') can be--are they really as cutthroat as people say?

I also have about ten songs I've been listening to from SHINee and BTS, respectively, that I'm trying to memorize the lyrics for.

These include:
  • Blood, Sweat, and Tears
  • Spring Day
  • 1 of 1
  • Good Evening
  • Our Page
  • Run
I'm not sure how to work with songs since I've never made a massive transcribing effort. I figure this project could work a little bit like my textbook study, because it has built-in LR. It has audio (a song) and text (lyrics). What remains is the medium through which I test myself.

I currently am taking BST and breaking it into thirds, or one-minute chunks, and trying to work intensively with meaning and sound. In the coming week I am going to work with mapping sounds to syllable blocks and full words. For instance, the chorus, which is this:

"내 피 땀 눈물
내 마지막 춤을
다 가져가 가
내 피 땀 눈물
내 차가운 숨을
다 가져가 가"

I have the meaning of this song memorized (as for all the others, except "1 of 1"), so I know generally where things go, but getting the Korean to exactly fit with English in a "pretty" way mentally is where I struggle.

I find it easier to turn the words, formatted like lyrics, into a sentence so I can read it: "내 피 땀 눈물 내 마지막 춤을 다 가져가 가." It helps that these songs are so catchy, otherwise I wouldn't pay attention like I do!

Here's to more Korean adventures :)
5 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests