To Catch an Aurora: On Top of the World (Language Rendezvous)

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eido
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:58 pm

More on army enlistment:

I just found out that Korean males have ‘til they’re 27 to go through the mandatory two years of army the government requires of them. This must be because they’re still young and virile at that point. However, BTS’ oldest member, Jin, got his enlistment officially delayed by at least 6 months. A “K Quoran” brought up that even though the group renewed their contract together on the anniversary of their debut, they probably wouldn’t make it another 6 years due to all the interruptions in people’s expectations as members left, came back, etc. I’m not one of those people, but since the fan base is mainly teenagers... well, you get the picture.

People naturally fight this as BTS is something they don’t want to end, but the “boys” are almost hitting 30–and as some astute ARMYs have noticed, a few are wearing couple rings, or what looks like them. That would indicate a relationship. It’s time! I support them all the way, and I wouldn’t want them to get heartbroken if they chose snooty celebrities as their significant other, or simply people that didn’t appreciate them. I’ve spent 5 years with them, so I can’t help but wonder what the future holds for these men.

I came here today to talk about my favorite BTS songs. Of late, SHINee’s been getting left by the wayside but I wanted to discuss them too at some point so we’ll get there someday.

BTS’ discography is diverse, and it was better pre-2017. There are newer, possibly younger fans that like the poppier sound BTS has been rockin’ lately, I’ve noticed. But BTS started out primarily as a two-person group, or so I’ve been able to gather. It was all RM and Suga. They liked hip hop and pure rap. Suga wanted to be a producer.

It might be a little strange to say I got my interest in Korean rap from idol rappers, but then it’s not fair to the selfsame idol rappers who struggled with their identity as such people. And if it weren’t for the sugary pop that these guys dip themselves in to get noticed, no one would notice them and there’d be less renown for the rappers that go deeper into the scene and make their living off pure hip hop/rap elements. The cultural context that gets washed out in the Hallyu wave gets put back in thanks to the idols that are willing to step up and appear “girly,” or “weird.”

There’s a lot to unpack with k-pop (which I’ll gradually be doing), but today I just wanted to share my favorite BTS songs. I’ll make it short and sweet with a top 3. I might expand on it later.

3. “Look Here” / “여기 봐”
People often comment that this is the Korean version of “Blurred Lines” and maybe, just maybe, the group sampled without giving credit. I don’t know, but it sure is catchy. It’s about flirting with a girl and it’s always struck me as quite the manly song. The lyrics aren’t the deepest but the beat is sticky and the performance is good.
2. “Danger” (Mo Blue Mix)
This also strikes me as masculine. It’s a bit between boy and man, and the lyrics reflect that. The album it came from (Dark and Wild) was meant to showcase those feelings—of love, rejection, heartache, growing up, acceptance... the whole package. I like how the song got a new feel upon remix, and the Vietnamese singer’s feature in the track really makes the rough n’ tough nature come out.
1. “I Need U”
I like this one mainly for nostalgia reasons. I joined the fandom mid-2015 when BTS released this track, and when they were just starting to get popular internationally. It has a simple beat, but the lyrics always seemed meaningful to me. This album is the precursor to the “Love Yourself” series, so it contains some themes from that. It’s still very teenage, but I think the concepts covered are enduring and deep despite their target audience. I say this because there might be some stigma towards teens and their music. This is one of those singles, though, that hits you in some type of place.

And before I go... Polska Dywizjona, assemble! I need music recommendations for music in Polish. Send me all you got! :D
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby cjareck » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:32 pm

eido wrote:Polska DywizjonaD

You mean a probably "Polska dywizjo" (division) or "Polski dywizjonie" (it is about a battalion level).
Well, I am not good at musics and listen only to some religious/patriotic old songs. My wife likes Marek Grechuta very much just look YT for his songs.
I like Jacek Kaczmarski - they have second-bottom mostly and are about Polish history.

Some classics, but modern singers "Rozkwitały pąki białych róż" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq2cTTvG_j4

"O mó rozmarynie" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp2x5wuhJhM (older version)

"Leguny w niebie" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf382Gos3ZY - this is rather joyfull

They are from the Great War.

"Szwoleżerowie" -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK-XBiOu0iQ - "let's trink the wine Chevaulegers let all sad things disappear in broken glass, when we will not exist anymore, no one will know if we had good or bad"....

And a religious one (it is from Słowacki's opera actually): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R9Q1V0OROU - I like it very much and agree with all the words there :) "We will never be allied to the kings, we will never bow before the power, because we are Christs' orderlies, servants of Virgin Mary, So even it the world will break, and the sun will trembles, Even the forces flying on dragons will not scare us"

All the translations ale made quickly and probably not grammatically correct or accurate.
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby AndyMeg » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:26 pm

eido wrote:More on army enlistment:

I just found out that Korean males have ‘til they’re 27 to go through the mandatory two years of army the government requires of them. This must be because they’re still young and virile at that point. However, BTS’ oldest member, Jin, got his enlistment officially delayed by at least 6 months. A “K Quoran” brought up that even though the group renewed their contract together on the anniversary of their debut, they probably wouldn’t make it another 6 years due to all the interruptions in people’s expectations as members left, came back, etc. I’m not one of those people, but since the fan base is mainly teenagers... well, you get the picture.

As far as I know, at least 50% of the current BTS fanbase is between 20 and 50 years old, so I think the members have a good chance to have a big enough fan base to go back to after the military service.

Thinking about what the future may hold for them made me remember this:



I hope they stay good friends for the rest of their lives :D
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:45 pm

cjareck wrote:You mean a probably "Polska dywizjo" (division) or "Polski dywizjonie" (it is about a battalion level).
Well, I am not good at musics and listen only to some religious/patriotic old songs. My wife likes Marek Grechuta very much just look YT for his songs.

I meant the second one, I just didn't know how to spell it. My dad is often sprinkling his speech with Polish sayings. In this case, he was referencing an old work colleague from Romania that categorized the office he was in into the Polish and another group, I can't remember which. It might've been the Czechs. But he was the only Romanian guy on the team, and he called the Polish people "Polska dywizjonie [sic]." My dad seemed to find that kind of cute, so I used it here. By the way, Mr. Jareck, I enjoyed all the songs you sent; and I did listen to all of them! They all had their distinct cultural flavor.
AndyMeg wrote:As far as I know, at least 50% of the current BTS fanbase is between 20 and 50 years old, so I think the members have a good chance to have a big enough fan base to go back to after the military service.

I hope they stay good friends for the rest of their lives :D

I've known about older BTS fans for a while. I suppose I could be considered one of them if we're talking about 2020 statistics since I'm in my 20s. I found this article, which mostly talks about women much older than me and their reactions to the boys and their fandom. It's interesting to see 50 and 60 year-old women in love with something usually only "kids" my age are into. If it makes them happy, I'm all for it. I especially liked how one woman used Jungkook's covers to ease her tinnitus. V's a cutie. He just bursts out with all his emotions and wears his heart on his sleeve. I hope they remain friends if not group members as well.

Today I worked on transcribing. I transcribed one and a half songs, "Blood, Sweat, and Tears" and "Run". It was a fun prospect. I made a lot of spelling errors because I didn't account for liaison/sound changes, some words I just missed entirely, or some I pretty much made up because I had to guess* but didn't have enough to go on.

I'd give myself maybe a 64% for the entire effort, which isn't very high, but still passing on some scales.

*I made myself a rule that I had to guess the majority of a line, even if I got it wrong, and even if it was hard. It ended up building my character just a little bit.

Now what would be a better use of my time, I wonder... songs I've had time to memorize due to repeated listenings, new ones, or "natural" conversations like those from TTMIK? Input is always welcome.
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby cjareck » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:35 pm

eido wrote: By the way, Mr. Jareck, I enjoyed all the songs you sent; and I did listen to all of them! They all had their distinct cultural flavor.

Maybe it wasn't your intention, but I will treat it as an encouragement for more anyway ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsqTxMTZKZU - "I've lived with you so many years, I dreamed next to you, you taught me how to live, even if I had the wind in my eyes (the obstacles/it wasn't always so nice), and even if I know what is the taste of the tears I don't regret our common days" - more or less. My wife was listening to that old song. I think it is from the eighties. Now it seems to be the truth even about my marriage - we are already 15 years together...

The second one needs some introduction. It is from a film about mjr Henryk Dobrzański known as "Hubal". He basically refused to surrender after Polish Campaign 1939 and continued fighting IN UNIFORM! He was killed in April 1940. So he was able to harass Germans for quite a long time, waiting for help from the West that never came...

There was a scene but I can't find it anymore. I had to look for it in the whole film. Luckily I can show you the time stamp ;) The first song "Lulajże Jezuniu..." is just a sad Polish carrol since it is Christmas 1939 (for Polish carrols - which are beautiful let's wait for Christmas ;) ). But look at what happens next.
https://youtu.be/GlA_a6L5oIo?t=3915
The second song is a very patriotic one "Boże coś Polskę". Wiki translates it as "God save Poland" but it is "God that you protected Poland through so long centuries". There is a refrain "przed Twe ołtarze zanosim błaganie, ojczyznę wolną racz nam wrócić Panie" OR "ojczyznę wolną pobłogosław Panie" - "in front of Your altars we are bringing a supplication please return us a free homeland" or "in front of Your altars we are bringing a supplication please bless our free homeland". Since the creation of the UE as a state in 2009 I sing the first version.
That song was introduced in 1815 as a coronation song for tsar Alexander I as a King of Poland.
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:41 am

cjareck wrote:Maybe it wasn't your intention, but I will treat it as an encouragement for more anyway ;)
... My wife was listening to that old song. I think it is from the eighties. Now it seems to be the truth even about my marriage - we are already 15 years together...

I totally would love more recommendations! The more, the merrier!

Congratulations on being together for that period of time. It takes two to tango ;)

I appreciate all the background info and the translations. My parents seem to be enjoying the mini Polish history lessons as well. Thank you kindly. :)

At my job I recently met a man who spent the beginning of his life in Japan... I'm not sure how many years exactly, maybe 13? He learned to speak Japanese as a first language from his mother. I asked him if he can still speak it and he says he mostly just understands it now. We had some interesting discussions on authentic food and what it was like to grow up there. If I ever have the chance to speak to him again at length, I'll be sure to interview him more about his heritage and his worldview.

Once, I mentioned that I'd heard of katakana, and he asked me how I knew about it. I answered that I'd been interested in Japanese for a while and had learned it. He seemed shocked!

That said, our conversations were one of the factors that re-ignited my interest in Japanese and for the past few days I've been working on Lingodeer, Udemy, Wanikani, and Bunpro to solidify my grammar and vocabulary knowledge. I don't think I'll ever speak to this man in Japanese (I'm a scaredy cat!) but I can thank him for putting me on the path to greater consistency and a recommendation for some swingin' Tokyo eats.

I don't know what this weekend holds as far as study of other languages as it will probably be busy with homework, family activity, and housework, but I'll try to aim for more daily study. I'm all about what makes me feel good, and sometimes with an "intellectual" hobby such as language learning, that can be hard to find; but today I found immense joy in connecting the particles 로 and で and 에 and に together, using only my own noggin. Just understanding thoroughly is really relaxing, and that might be weird to some people, but that's where my flow state is at.

I like this video. It shows the difference between those particles in both those languages in a concise way. I watched with Spanish subtitles. So I nailed three I'm studying in one shot. I'm a contented cow.

I'm finding slowly that in order to make progress with languages, I have to make multiple passes through material in careful spirals. I can't make a straight shot or else I'll be left on shaky footing. I'm amazed by people who can just swing right through textbooks or native content and learn the concepts well enough to speak and function civilly in the language. I'm a much more considered, pensive type.

Things click at different times, like the particles and their connections. When I become a teacher, I'll have to keep this in mind. I wonder how I could design worksheets with "softer" learning principles in mind while still meeting state curricula standards. It's definitely something to have a think on.
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:27 am

I'm having fun comparing Korean and Japanese.

Which sports do you like?
好きなスポーツは何なんですか。
어느 스포츠가 제일 좋아하는 것이에요?

Whose computer is this?
これは誰のパソコンですか。
이건 누구의 컴퓨터예요?

There are a lot of similarities, but some differences, too. These types of activities make study enjoyable. They help you conceptualize and get a firm grounding in whatever it is you're learning at that moment.

I think if I keep this up I'll learn faster.

On deck is more testing of Korean listening comprehension, more native content in Korean, and more overall work with Japanese. This is a bit of an exploratory period for me.

I'm ready, though! :D
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:22 am

At my work there seems to be a diversity of people, and I'm glad.

I'm determined by the time I graduate with my Bachelor's to have a conversation with the people from other countries or minority groups in their respective languages.

My current goal is Mandarin Chinese, because there are three or four women that I hear in the breakroom talking in the tongue quite often. One woman said her family was from Taiwan, I believe. And yes, I know there's a difference between the Mainland and Taiwan Chinese standard dialects/languages, but I'm under the impression it isn't too great, so I'm sticking with the former for now. There are also more readily accessible resources for it, as well.

I bought a membership to Mandarin Corner about 5 months ago for $10 and the content they have there is amazing. Going with the theme of going in spirals upward, I noticed an uptick in my ability to comprehend Mandarin this week because for about two years I've been studying it using different resources with stops and starts, a bit like I have with Korean. I find if I study in spaced intervals for a few weeks a small section of material, take a break, and then review, the knowledge comes back to me stronger along with increased motivation. I assume this is just the good ol' spaced repetition method at work ( ;) ) but it seems a bit different.

I'm thinking of signing up for Mandarin lessons again now that I have a more concrete goal, but I'll always keep that abstract one (the one of fluency) in mind.

I also have some work to do for my degree and I'll hopefully be working with a great set of language teachers, one of whom might be a Chinese teacher. So I'd like to get off on the right foot and learn some Mandarin to show her/him I have a deeper than usual interest in learning and teaching languages.

Plus, I just felt like getting cozy on these newly fall days and learning some Chinese. And ASL! I remembered how beautiful and expressive it was, so I headed on over to SignSchool and began practicing again. I try to do only one lesson a night, because while some signs are easy to remember, others aren't--and I want to keep the retention rate high. My motivation here also partly comes from the fact I might meet into an ASL teacher in my program, and I'd like to be able to greet her and have a short conversation. But I really do like ASL aside from being a pussyfoot. :P

I noticed the same spiral pattern here. Spacing content out and reviewing it, but most importantly... using it is what helps make connections in my brain.

I'm also enjoying reviewing Japanese grammar that seems ingrained into me and has been since the dark ages of tweenhood. I have more than enough resources for Japanese, it's just a matter of slow and steady. The turtle won the race after all!

I'm probably going to modify some of my goals that I set prior, but I have been thinking for a while extensively on what I want and why and I'm already moving forward in that direction.

For instance, as a teen I dreamed of raising my children bilingual or trilingual, and that's why in addition to falling in love with Spanish, I worked so hard to get up to a decent level. But "decent" isn't enough. You have to be really good. Know all the vocabulary, know the language like your own heart... at least in my view. I'll do more research on it at a later time, but for now, if anyone's reading this and going, "you don't know what you're talking about!" and would like to correct me, please do so in a kind manner and inform me. I love to read, especially if it has rich educational value.

Tomorrow I have a Spanish conversation lesson booked. My first in 2 months. I'm quite rusty. So I'm going to spend some time tonight reviewing so I don't sound like a total fool.

Life is going pretty good for me. I'm young. I gotta enjoy it. And I can't imagine a better way to spend the weekends than hardcore language study, even if hardcore isn't like the pros with all their fancy memory techniques and exclusive strategies. I got my own style :geek: But family and school come first, even if they do intertwine a little with my hobby. I believe in killing multiple birds with one stone.

Here's to families... linguistic and otherwise.
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby cjareck » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:15 am

eido wrote:I totally would love more recommendations! The more, the merrier!

Congratulations on being together for that period of time. It takes two to tango ;)

I appreciate all the background info and translations. My parents seem to be enjoying the mini Polish history lessons as well. Thank you kindly. :)

Thanks! I wasn't able to respond earlier, so write now when I have a little more time. I wanted to recommend something else but, by chance, noticed "żurawiejki" on youtube.

By the way - the picture in the background is a "Wonder on the Vistula" by Jerzy Kossak. A copy (unfortunately printed not painted) hangs in my salon :)
The idea of "Żurawiejka" is explained in English Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBurawiejka

What I would correct in the youtube song is that "Bolszewika goń, goń, goń" means "chase, chase, chase the Bolsheviks" (just after they were routed. Also, Polish cavalry in communist times (up to 1947 as far as I remember) had "Żurawiejki," but they couldn't sing that vers, so they changed it into "ostrogami dzwoń, dzwoń, dzwoń" (ring, ring, ring with the spurs).

In the quoted collection, they sing another one about the 17th Uhlans regiment. The one I know was:
"Czy to świta czy to dnieje
Siedemnasty zawsze wieje"
(is it a dawn or beginning of the day
the 17th Uhlas always runs away")
So the officers of the regiment swore to prove that they are not running away. The time for that has come on 10th, September 1939 (the beginning of the Battle of Bzura River) when they were ordered to attack Walewice - a German strongpoint in a fortified Mansion. The regiment sustained heavy casualties - 6 officers and 58 men killed and many other wounded. For that regiment, this was the first day of the battle. Before, they were just retreating from Poznań without any contact with the Germans.
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Re: Eine kleine Nachtmusik: A Sound Garden (Musically Exploring Language)

Postby eido » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:12 am

cjareck wrote:Thanks! I wasn't able to respond earlier, so write now when I have a little more time. I wanted to recommend something else but, by chance, noticed "żurawiejki" on youtube.

Me and my dad just listened to some of this together. He liked it a lot. I listened to more of it after him, and I conclude that I like it indeed. It's very catchy. As always, thank you for educating me :)

On that note, tonight was a "listening-to-music" night. In addition to @cjareck's song, I listened to some Chinese songs and some French songs. I discovered a site called EveryNoise. Instead of bugging my language exchange partners for music recommendations to no avail ( :P ), I'll try to use this site from now on.

Tonight's recommendation from me is "On Ne Vit Qu'Une Fois" by Sidione, purely from a sound aspect.
Runner up is "T'as vu" by CLIO.

I also found a Taiwanese rapper I like, MC HotDog. His raps are oddly relaxing... but that's probably because I don't totally understand them yet :roll: lol

I watched a video in Spanish by a Korean who often gets complimented on her native-like Colombian-sounding accent. It was interesting to see... maybe I can be as good as her one day :)

And here's a variation on a theme:


I also liked the band Arcadian, too, which also sings in French. They look a bit like French-speaking Jonas Brothers. (I can't be the only one on this forum who remembers the Joe Bros... maybe I am :shock:)

I downloaded the Spoonfed Chinese deck for a second time because I wasn't sure if I still had access to my original Gumroad account... turns out I did *doh* I'm attacking this from all angles! Here we go :!:

Tomorrow I hope to get some TV show watching in. Let's see if it happens.
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