Dave's log, (German and French)

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4823

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:54 am

DaveAgain wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:Remarque's tetralogy fascinated me. Each one was as good as the one before, but Schatten im paradies took my fancy the most, leaving me to wonder just who die Schatten were, Germans or Americans.

As for subtitles always on, a curse on the practice. I have DVDs of the first season of Spiral aka Engrenages with English subtitles that are always on. Sometimes too they cover almost half the screen, making almost impossible the task of masking them without obscuring too much of the action. I wonder if you found a workable solution.
It was your mentioning the Remarque books that pointed me to them. :-)

Re: subtitles
I'm watching these programmes with someone who has no french, so the subtitles have to stay on. I'm making an effort to tune them out, with varying degrees of success.

What I've done in the past is lean an empty DVD case against the middle-bottom of the TV screen. This only partially obscures the subtitles, but it's enough to stop me automatically reading them. Given how light today's TVs are, you have to be careful doing this!

One funny thing about watching so many series is the appearance of actors you recognize from other programmes.

The red haired actor from French in Action has appeared in two of the Channel 4 hosted series. He was in juste un regard (UK title: just one look), a good series, and le passager (UK title: the passenger), not such a good series, but the lead actress looked like a supermodel. :-)

Glad to be of service about Remarque!
As for the subtitles, maybe I'll just bit the bullitt and live with them.
French actors do indeed show up frequently in other series. The redhaired doctor's wife first seen by me in A French Village is one who comes to mind (Audrey Fleurot, to give her a name), and Thierry Godard, also from A French Village, is another.
2 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:43 am

58. Die Fieberkurve by Friedrich Glauser

I read this on an eReader looking up all unknown words. SRF [Schweizer Radio und Fernsehen] has a two part radio drama adaptation, part 1, part 2.

This is another of Mr Glauser's dectective stories featuring his Studer character. The action moves around from Switzerland, to France, to Algeria and we learn a little of Mr Studer's language skills, which probably reflect Mr Glauser's.
In kurzer Zeit war er zum Wachtmeister aufgestiegen; denn er sprach fließend drei Sprachen: Französisch, Italienisch, Deutsch. Er las Englisch. Er hatte bei Groß in Graz und bei Locard in Lyon gearbeitet. Er besaß gute Bekannte in Berlin, London, Wien – vor allem in Paris. An kriminologische Kongresse wurde gewöhnlich er delegiert.


59. Damals bei uns daheim by Hans Fallada

I read this on an eReader, looking up all unknown words. The Goethe eLibrary currently have it as an audio book.

This is an autobiographical book, ending with Mr Fallada as a teenager. It's very entertaining, which surprised me a little. Prior to this the only Fallada book I'd read was Alone in Berlin which made no real impression on me.

Books/writers mentioned include:
Courses
I didn't keep up with my double translation of the Das sagt man so course :-( but I've bought myself a copy of the Berlitz self-teacher German (ISBN: 0399513221), so I'll try to be more diligent with that one. :-)

French
I've almost exhausted the Walter Presents French series with English subtitles I can watch on UK TV. Au-delà des apparences (UK Title:Beyond Appearances), Noces Rouges (UK title:A deadly union), Philharmonia and Les Dames (UK title: Dead Beautiful) were all good.

I read something in French every day, currently Histoire des Cathares by Michel Roquebert.

EDIT
Downloading eBooks from Projekt Gutenberg
Projekt Gutenberg doesn't offer links to direct downloads, so I use Epub2go.eu to generate an ePub file, then I upload that to Online-convert.com (mentioned by Mr Dearman) to get a format my eReader can use.
6 x

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:47 am

60. Heute bei uns zu Haus by Hans Fallada.

I read this on an eReader, looking up all unknown words.

This is another autobiographical book by Mr Fallada. His last book, Damals bei uns daheim, ended while he was still a teenager living with his parents, this book opens with him aged 35 living in a bedsit, and earning a thin living by doing piecework, typing addresses for export firms.

In the missing years Mr Fallada had published two novels, and served time in jail after being caught stealing money from his employer to fund his drug habit.

Une vie, une oeuvre: Hans Fallada.

As the book progresses Mr Fallada marries, then a chance meeting with the publisher of his two first novels leads to a job at the publishing firm, which provided both a basic income, and time to write. His next book Bauern, Bonzen und Bomben was a success in Germany, enabling Mr Fallada to become a full-time writer. The book after that Kleiner Mann – was nun? was a world-wide bestseller.

The tidal wave of money that followed the success of Kleiner Man opened up new opportunities, like sitting in the pub all day, buying drinks for strangers.

To protect himself from temptation Mr Fallada bought a small-holding away from the gin palaces of Berlin and Heute bei uns zu Haus is largely a collection of short-stories about life on the farm. A story about their cow, a story about their car, their bee-hives etc.

Books/writers mentioned in the text include:

Courses
I'm still plugging on with Berlitz self-teacher (ISBN: 0399513221), one lesson a day.

French
I've watched a number of documentaries with French audio and English subtitles from Arte.tv.

Currently reading Michelin, 100 ans d'aventures by Herbert Lottman. This is a history of the Michelin tyre company, and the key figures who shaped it in the late 19th early 20th century.
3 x

User avatar
Montmorency
Brown Belt
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Dabbling/Beginner: Czech

Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Norwegian (bit more than beginner) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 1184

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby Montmorency » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:10 pm

tungemål wrote:Are you at 10.000 pages? Congratulations! You forgot to update your page count. I have never read that much in a short period, but I tend to look up words as I read. I don't know if I trust the theory "learn words from context".


(Sorry to necro-post, but you make an important point).

I don't trust the theory, either. At least, not totally. You can certainly guess one meaning from context, but it may not help you with secondary meanings. I certainly guess wrong sometimes. I sometimes guess wrong when it's an unusual word in my own language!

However, I used to be the sort who stopped and looked up every word, and that is still somewhat my inclination, but I've (sort of) learned to resist it. But with books taking weeks, months, and sometimes years this way, It got a bit ridiculous. So I had to find other strategies. If it wasn't too difficult a book, then I'd underline unknown words in pencil (or if I couldn't bring myself to mark the book, or if it didn't belong to me, then I'd record the words somewhere to come back to). For more difficult books I'd try to find a translation. Elsewhere in this log, someone mentions the "Sandwich Reading" technique (suggested by someone at a Polyglot conference) where you read a chapter in the TL, then re-read it in a known language. I've done something like that, but not very systematically; I must try it again, properly. (I haven't done it multiple times though; the originator said he did it 5 or 6 times I think).

I haven't got into e-readers, and that's obviously another approach, if there is a suitable pop-up dictionary available; when I was seriously considering one, I could only find compatible dictionaries for a few languages (though it did include German).

You can't always get a translation. I have sometimes put an e-book version of a book through google translate, with (as expected) mixed results.

The other thing I find useful is having an audiobook version of the book, and maybe do some version of L-R (ie. with or without a translation). If you don't have a translation, even if the audiobook won't actually help you guess meanings of word, it will (or might) speed you up, or rather keep up your momentum, at least that's what I find. So you get through the book quicker overall, get an overall idea of the book in your head quicker, and that may possibly help identify words from context more effectively. It will make it more likely that you'll re-read it (if necessary), because you would have spent less time on it in the first place (this would be the case with me, anyway; it may well not be the case with everyone. Perhaps depends whether you subvocalise or not, but it's probably safer to avoid a debate on that subject).


I also experimented with Readlang when it was still in beta. (Wonder if my account still exists...?).



(There is lots of interesting stuff in this log, so congratulations to the OP/log-owner; and sorry to butt-in :-) ).
6 x

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:49 am

61. Die Neue Medizin der Emotionen by David Servan Schreiber. (English, French)

I read this without looking up any unknown words.

This is a pop-science book about mental health, that suggests various diet/lifestyle changes you can make to improve your mental health. I thought it was very good.

There’s a French language documentary called ‘Guérir Autrement’ that highlights three things mentioned in the book: Meditation (breathing exercises), regular exercise, and EMDR (Eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing).

Courses
Some time ago I bought Langenscheidt’s Deutsch - alles drin, this is actually two books bundled together, Langenscheidt Grundwortschatz deutsch als fremdsprache, and German grammar in a nutshell.

I’m working through the Grundwortschatz book, it’s a themed vocabulary book. Each page has two columns German words/example sentences on the left, English on the right.

I do one new page every day:
    Day 1: scriptorium of the German
    Day 2: Use the English prompt, and translate to German. I then do scriptorium again for any I get wrong.

The Goethe eLibrary have this as an eBook and an audiobook.

Films & TV
I found a new website that lists foreign language films appearing on UK TV, as a result of that I saw Balloon, a true story, about two East German families who built a hot air balloon to escape to West Germany in the 1970s. Currently available on the BBC’s catchup app.

I’ve also watched some episodes of Tatort Hamburg (UK Title: Inspector Falke) on UK Channel 4’s catchup app.

French
I’m currently reading Jeanne d’Arc: par elle-même et par ses témoins by Régine Pernoud, this collects the court record of Joan of Arc’s heresy trial (which resulted in her execution), and the later ‘process of rehabilitation’, which highlighted irregularities in the trial proceedings, together with some other contemporary sources. The book progresses like a biography, Jean’s childhood, her journey to meet the dauphin, participation in the military campaign, trial, and execution.

I watch a programme on Arte.tv’s catch up app most evenings. I have the default language set to English, so I am offered the subset of their programmes that have English subtitles available. For some reason this is more often originally French audio, rather than German audio.

I’ve also started watching Engrenages (UK title: Spiral) as the BBC have put episodes from series 1-7 on their catchup app.
5 x

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:20 am

Montmorency wrote:
tungemål wrote:I don't know if I trust the theory "learn words from context".


(Sorry to necro-post, but you make an important point).

I don't trust the theory, either. At least, not totally. You can certainly guess one meaning from context, but it may not help you with secondary meanings. I certainly guess wrong sometimes. I sometimes guess wrong when it's an unusual word in my own language!

However, I used to be the sort who stopped and looked up every word, and that is still somewhat my inclination, but I've (sort of) learned to resist it. But with books taking weeks, months, and sometimes years this way, It got a bit ridiculous. So I had to find other strategies. If it wasn't too difficult a book, then I'd underline unknown words in pencil (or if I couldn't bring myself to mark the book, or if it didn't belong to me, then I'd record the words somewhere to come back to). For more difficult books I'd try to find a translation. Elsewhere in this log, someone mentions the "Sandwich Reading" technique (suggested by someone at a Polyglot conference) where you read a chapter in the TL, then re-read it in a known language. I've done something like that, but not very systematically; I must try it again, properly. (I haven't done it multiple times though; the originator said he did it 5 or 6 times I think).

I haven't got into e-readers, and that's obviously another approach, if there is a suitable pop-up dictionary available; when I was seriously considering one, I could only find compatible dictionaries for a few languages (though it did include German).

You can't always get a translation. I have sometimes put an e-book version of a book through google translate, with (as expected) mixed results.

The other thing I find useful is having an audiobook version of the book, and maybe do some version of L-R (ie. with or without a translation). If you don't have a translation, even if the audiobook won't actually help you guess meanings of word, it will (or might) speed you up, or rather keep up your momentum, at least that's what I find. So you get through the book quicker overall, get an overall idea of the book in your head quicker, and that may possibly help identify words from context more effectively. It will make it more likely that you'll re-read it (if necessary), because you would have spent less time on it in the first place (this would be the case with me, anyway; it may well not be the case with everyone. Perhaps depends whether you subvocalise or not, but it's probably safer to avoid a debate on that subject).
To build muscle, you have to increase the difficulty, isn't it the same with skill building? You have to put yourself in a position where 'the usual' won't suffice, you have to go beyond what you're comfortable with.

When you have a long-term injury, your brain stops using injured muscles, and compensates by giving the work to others. Part of physiotherapy is finding ways (exercises) that force the brain to use previously injured muscles. To change the way it currently solves the problem of moving from position A to position B.
5 x

Caromarlyse
Green Belt
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:31 pm
Languages: English (N), French (C1-ish), German (B2/C1-ish), Russian (B1-ish), Portuguese (B1-ish), Welsh (complete beginner), Spanish (in hibernation)
(All levels estimates and given as a guide only)
x 1611

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby Caromarlyse » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:42 am

I've just looked up the Grundwortschatz book in the online library, and the blurb seems to suggest that your vocabulary at A1-A2 is/should be 4,000 words?! I will look at it more closely when it's available, just out of curiosity. I have Using German Vocabulary sitting on my shelves, however, waiting for me to decide what to do with it.

I recommend Engrenages. I've got all the DVDs, and one day plan to go back to them and watch them again, covering up the subtitles this time. The issue is that the production quality improved significantly with the seasons (they suddenly appear to have got a budget), which makes the older ones look less sleek now.
3 x

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:10 am

Caromarlyse wrote:I've just looked up the Grundwortschatz book in the online library, and the blurb seems to suggest that your vocabulary at A1-A2 is/should be 4,000 words?! I will look at it more closely when it's available, just out of curiosity. I have Using German Vocabulary sitting on my shelves, however, waiting for me to decide what to do with it.
I was surprised by that too, the Deutsch - alles drin has a little A1-B2 badge on the cover and it's exactly the same content.

I recommend Engrenages. I've got all the DVDs, and one day plan to go back to them and watch them again, covering up the subtitles this time. The issue is that the production quality improved significantly with the seasons (they suddenly appear to have got a budget), which makes the older ones look less sleek now.
That's encouraging. :-) Other series I've watched have gone the other way, series one good, then all downhill thereafter.
1 x

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:17 pm

62. Sofies welt by Jostein Gaarder (English, French)

I read each chapter first without looking up any words, then I listened to the audiobook reading of it, then I read it again with a parallel text.

The author was a philosophy teacher before finding success as a writer, and the subtitle of this book is "roman über die geschichte der philosophie". It's a history of european philosophy course, dressed up as a novel.

Courses
I'm still plugging on with my Deutsch alles drin/grundwortschatz book, one page a day.

French
My French reading has fallen off a bit, but I'm still reading something every day. Currently Chesterfield's letters to his son.

My Christmas present to myself was a French music CD, Zest of Zazie (Ceid Donn linked to one of her tunes), it's my current wiggle round the kitchen CD. Fave tracks are Rodeo and Oui, but the whole thing is good pop tunes. (Rodeo's a lot better if you don't read the lyrics!)

NB Melody Gardot speaks French :-)

TV & Films
I watch something with French/German audio and English subtitles most evenings. One good film was Frantz, currently available via the BBC's catchup app.

EDIT
Books/writers mentioned in Sofies Welt include:
It's also been adapted into a TV series and a film.
Last edited by DaveAgain on Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
3 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4823

Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:46 pm

DaveAgain wrote:French
My French reading has fallen off a bit, but I'm still reading something every day. Currently Chesterfield's letters to his son.

A century earlier saw the many letters of Madame de Sévigné, many of them to her daughter. Worth a look, if not a complete read. The marquise was from the very highest upper crust of French society, but her letters are not hoity-toity at all. Thanks for the reference to Chesterfield's letters.
2 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: garyb and 2 guests