Dave's log, (German and French)

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Le Baron
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Re: 10,000 pages of German

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:54 pm

DaveAgain wrote:I only read two pages, two or three poems, a day.

The edition I'm using has bottom of the page notes to explain any vocabulary they think is too obscure, and there are notes at the back that typically suggest what source text Mr Fontaine was using.

I quite like them so far, I may start reading them aloud.

I bought the book years ago with the idea of memorising some of the more popular poems, never did though :-).

Of course, if you find them pleasant reading that's all that matters. If you're comfortable in French (and I'm assuming you are, I can't tell because there are no languages listed!), then it's less of a reading chore and more like pleasure.

I did once see these in one of those 'French books you should read' lists. Unfortunately in foreign language learning you get a version of the Shakespeare thing, where it's propagated that you're not well-read in the language unless you're familiar with Shakespeare; even though the majority of modern English speakers have barely read him. Same with Homer in Greece. With Molière and La Fontaine in French there's this myth that all French schoolkids still plough through them and can quote them. A tragic version of this in NL is that you hear more talk about Shakespeare than Joost van den Vondel; and that a majority have read neither.
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Re: Ever more pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:54 pm

german2k01 wrote:Due to a shortage of time on my end I could not read through every post of yours except the few ones in the beginning - my question is to you, how many total pages of reading are you into now since its inception? Thanks
I'm afraid I stopped counting pages, so I've no idea.

I've changed the name of the log to avoid confusing anyone else :-)
Le Baron wrote:Of course, if you find them pleasant reading that's all that matters. If you're comfortable in French (and I'm assuming you are, I can't tell because there are no languages listed!), then it's less of a reading chore and more like pleasure.

I did once see these in one of those 'French books you should read' lists. Unfortunately in foreign language learning you get a version of the Shakespeare thing, where it's propagated that you're not well-read in the language unless you're familiar with Shakespeare; even though the majority of modern English speakers have barely read him. Same with Homer in Greece. With Molière and La Fontaine in French there's this myth that all French schoolkids still plough through them and can quote them. A tragic version of this in NL is that you hear more talk about Shakespeare than Joost van den Vondel; and that a majority have read neither.

I have a dictionary to hand for anything that confuses me.

There seems to be a subset of the Fables that French children have to learn at primary school, Le corbeau and le renard is the one that comes to mind first, and references to them pop up here and there in TV dramas and books.

Wikipedia lists some snippets it says have entered everyday language.
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Re: Ever more pages of German

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:07 pm

DaveAgain wrote:There seems to be a subset of the Fables that French children have to learn at primary school, Le corbeau and le renard is the one that comes to mind first, and references to them pop up here and there in TV dramas and books.

Wikipedia lists some snippets it says have entered everyday language.

This is correct. It's like people in England saying 'To be or not to be; that is the question.' I heard an interview qith Brigitte Bardot once where she corrected the interviewer that something was from La Fontaine...or maybe it was Napoleon? In any case, I think she had a very good bourgeois schooling.

Just for the sake of it, here's the little Hachette La Fontaine. It looks tiny at the angle I'm holding it :lol: , but it is a small book anyway:

Image
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Re: Ever more pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:27 pm

Le Baron wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:There seems to be a subset of the Fables that French children have to learn at primary school, Le corbeau and le renard is the one that comes to mind first, and references to them pop up here and there in TV dramas and books.

Wikipedia lists some snippets it says have entered everyday language.

This is correct. It's like people in England saying 'To be or not to be; that is the question.' I heard an interview with Brigitte Bardot once where she corrected the interviewer that something was from La Fontaine...or maybe it was Napoleon? In any case, I think she had a very good bourgeois schooling.
First thing in the morning I try to read some philosophy, and as these fables are intended to illustrate/impart wisdom I fit them into that slot. Their cultural weight, or entertainment value, are additional benfits. :-)
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Re: Ever more pages of German

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:20 am

76. Der Pfad by Rüdiger Bertram

I read this looking up some but not all unknown words.

This is a young adult book, the publisher's age guidance is "ab 12 jahren". I borrowed it from the Goethe eLibrary.

A fictional account of a political refugee crossing the French-Spanish border in 1940. We mostly follow a French-Spanish boy and a German boy as they travel around the mountains over a few days. The French boy speaks a little German, and the other's attempts to improve his German phrasing and vocabulary is a bit of a running theme. Eric Kästner's Der 35 Mai gets an outing as a teaching aid.

In the afterword the author tells us that he read Lisa Fittko's memoir of her time in Banyuls sur mer, and walked her border crossing path, which now seems to be a tourist attraction.

On his return to Germany he wrote a screenplay first, then the novel Der Pfad.

TV - listening
Since reading Carmody's listening thread I've been trying to be a little more attentive, looking up unknown words and phrases. I'm using Bettys Diagnose for this at the moment, it's a light hearted 40 minute medical drama.

Some expressions I've met are:
French
I'm currently reading Fables de la Fontaine, just 2 pages a day, one of Chesterfield's letters to his son (tome 2) a day and at odd moments I read bits of Gibbon's decline and fall.

I've picked Gibbon up again at tome 7, rather a hard time for the home team as the Angles, Jutes and Saxons have invaded and largely conquered England, with King Arthur saving a little of the (celtic) national honour. In France Clovis and Franks have established themselves. There are two legal systems, one for the Franks, and one for the Roman/French. This reminded me a bit of the consular system featured in Michael Pearce's Mamur Zapt books which are set in pre WW1 Egypt. There was a national legal system but europeans (possibly just some nationalities?) could insist on being tried by 'consular courts', which would follow their own native legal forms.

Les Petits meurtres have uploaded the first 4 episodes of their third series (set in the 1970s) to their YouTube channel. So far none of the series 2 cast have appeared, but the head detective sometimes reads la Voix du Nord so we may yet see the return of Alice Avril. :-)
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Re: Dave's log, (German and French)

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:49 am

TV - German expressions
Continuing with the listening closely idea, quite a lot of German expressions in today's Bettys Diagnose episode:
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Re: Dave's log, (German and French)

Postby tungemål » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:26 pm

It's fun to learn these expressions. German has a lot of expressions like those. I've collected 80 in my Anki deck. I only knew "durch den Wind sein", but the others are easy to guess from context.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Dave's log, (German and French)

Postby DaveAgain » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:48 am

TV - German expressions
I noticed three German expressions in today's Bettys diagnose episode:

The apple saying works directly translated to English, so I wondered about the origin of it. The only lead I found was:
...the earliest use of the proverb in English is found in Benjamin Thorpe's translation of Rasmus Rask's Grammar of the Anglo-Saxon Tongue, published in 1830

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the ... -tree.html

EDIT
...and three more in episode 10:

EDIT2
... five more from episode 11:

The redenarten website doesn't offer any explanation for why 'Hermann', but there is a Hermann-sourdough custom that I think might be linked to it.

https://www.wer-kann-das-wissen.de/erna ... s-ist-das/

Wiktionary says that Hermann is sometimes an abbreviation of Hermannteig which supports that idea.

https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Hermann

EDIT3
Series one ends with heaps of expressions in episode 12:

"über die stränge schlagen" has an almost exact parallel in English "kick over the traces"

https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_boa ... s/633.html
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DaveAgain
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Re: Dave's log, (German and French)

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:43 am

77. Zeit zu hassen, Zeit zu lieben by Willi Fährmann

I read this book looking up some but not all unknown words.

The publisher's age recommendation is "ab 12 Jahre". I borrowed it from the Goethe eLibrary

The story opens in a street battle, in Berlin 1919 during the November Revolution. The action stays in Berlin for a few months, strikes, civil unrest and limited food supplies (aggravated by an allied blockade) are ongoing issues.

Our central characters then move to the Ruhr region looking for work, working successively in a mine, a shipyard and a brewery. Political unrest is an ongoing issue with strikes, armed uprisings, military intervention by foreign governments and towards the end rampant inflation.

During all the chaos life goes on, one of our characters starts and builds a dressmaking business, a family carpentry business goes bankrupt, and the story ends with a marriage, and hope for the future.

This is the second book in the Bienmann Saga:

TV - listening
I've been watching episodes of Bettys Diagnose. I watched the first series once with subtitles on, looking up all unknown words, and I'm now watching it again without subtitles, seeing how many of those words are still unknown :-)

French
I read two pages of Fables de La Fontaine each morning, and one of Chesterfield's letters to his son (tome 2). Later in the day I read Gibbon's Decline and Fall (tome 7).

In decline and Fall Justinien has conquered the Visigoth kingdom of north Africa, and brought the area back under (east) Roman control.

I've listened to a some radio programmes about Jean de La Fontaine, and Justinien II.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Dave's log, (German and French)

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:26 am

TV - German expressions
I watched the first series of Bettys Diagnose twice, once with subtitles and once without. Now I'm starting over with the second series, episode 1:

eine Klette sein (S02F01, 12m51s)
jemanden / etwas mit dem Arsch nicht angucken / ansehen (S02F01, 25m55s)
etwas / jemanden wie ein rohes Ei behandeln (S02F01, 33m51s)
(auf etwas) Bock haben (S02F01, 42m08s) This one appeared in S01F10 too.

EDIT
Eight (!) expressions in episode 2:
"jemandem (gewaltig) auf die Nerven gehen" has an English parallel "get on somebody's nerves"

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... nes-nerves

EDIT2
Five more in episode 3:
Word of the day: Götterspeise > jelly (jello) :-)

EDIT3
Six more in episode 8:
Last edited by DaveAgain on Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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