Mista's new perpetual log (currently: Russian and Japanese))

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Mista
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Posts: 608
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English (QN). Studied Ancient Greek (MA), Linguistics (MA), Latin (BA), German (BA). Italian at A2/B1 level. Learning: French, Japanese, Russian (focus) and various others, like Polish, Spanish, Vietnamese, and anything that comes my way. Also know some Sanskrit (but not the script) and Coptic. Really want to learn Arabic and Amharic.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7497
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby Mista » Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:47 pm

October Super Challenge update (total numbers)

French
Books: 2242 pages = 44 books
Films: 3190 minutes = 35 films

Finally a big leap forward in the film section, this is mostly Le Bureau

Read Le misanthrope and currently reading Madame Bovary

Ancient Greek
Books: 8 pages

I haven't properly started with this yet, but I'm doing a pre-1700 literature course this semester, where we have a dual language poetry book

Spanish
Books: 51 pages = 1 book
Films: none

Tiempos recios

Portuguese
Books: 88 pages = 1.5 books
Films: none

no change

Swedish
Books: 579 pages = 11 books
Films: 883 minutes = 9 films

Finished Mellan rött och svart as audiobook

Arabic
Books: none
Films: 190 minutes = 2 films

no change

English
Books: 2291 pages = 45 books
Films: 1090 minutes = 12 films

The Heart of the Matter by Graham Green on audio, currently listening to Jazz by Toni Morrison

Reading various texts on American history and society for a university course

Icelandic
Books: 169 pages = 3 books
Films: 205 minutes = 2.5 films

nothing new, just a few more pages

Sami
Books: 10 pages
Films: none

no change

Russian
Books: 135 pages = 2.5 book
Films: 230 minutes = 2.5 films

Read The Overcoat (Шинель) by Gogol, and currently reading it again

Danish
Books: 1204 pages = 24 books
Films: 1320 minutes = 14 books

Finished Dødevaskeren by Sara Omar on audio.

Read Dante's Divina Commedia (with commentary)

Latin
Books: 19 pages
Films: none

Like in Greek, I read some dual language poetry

German

Books: 4 pages
Films: 409 minutes = 4.5 films

The pages are again poetry

I'm also listening to Der goldene Kompass by Philip Pullman on audio

Italian
Books: 106 pages = 2 books
Films: none

L'amica geniale

Average per day
Books: 38 pages (of 41)
Films: 41 minutes (of 75)
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tungemål
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby tungemål » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:38 pm

14 languages!
Are you in effect a full-time language student? How do you structure the learning; do you do something in every language every day, or do you rotate languages?

Of the languages you study, I'd like to learn some Icelandic, only to read the Edda in original, and some French, also just for reading because of the cultural importance of French, and because it seems easy to learn to read French. I don't know if I will ever get the time for it.
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Mista
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Posts: 608
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English (QN). Studied Ancient Greek (MA), Linguistics (MA), Latin (BA), German (BA). Italian at A2/B1 level. Learning: French, Japanese, Russian (focus) and various others, like Polish, Spanish, Vietnamese, and anything that comes my way. Also know some Sanskrit (but not the script) and Coptic. Really want to learn Arabic and Amharic.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7497
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby Mista » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:06 pm

tungemål wrote:14 languages!
Are you in effect a full-time language student? How do you structure the learning; do you do something in every language every day, or do you rotate languages?

I do have to work as well, but I don't work full time, so I have more time for studying than many other people here.

I know doing the SC in 14 languages sounds a little megalomaniac - but I'll be happy if I finish half of them, and most of them are only half challenges. The main reason why I went for all 14 is that I want to work on finding a good balance between them. I should also say that I'm not actively studying all of them. I included English just because in the long run, it needs maintenance just like any other language. My Italian is maybe B1 after 3 years in high school and my German is maybe B2 after Goethe courses up to that level some years back. In both these languages, I can read a book with enjoyment if I pick the right book, and in German I can also listen to an audiobook without much effort. I'm not really studying these languages now, just reading, listening and watching. The same is the case with Swedish and Danish, which I have never studied actively and probably never will.

As for the languages I actually study, I have tried this year to stick to French (daily study) and Russian, Icelandic, Sami and Arabic on a weekly rotation, but a month ago, I gave up on the rotation system and have stuck to Russian since that. I still think it's a good idea to rotate now and then, but I'm not sure what the ideal period is, or if I should just do it when I feel like a change. But I do know that there's no point in trying to study more than two or three languages a day, which has more to do with my personality than anything else.

As for these four rotation languages in relation to the SC, I have a hope of at least getting somewhere with Icelandic and Russian. In Sami, I'd be happy to get to 50 pages, while my Arabic is still at A1 level, and I don't know if I'll even try to read anything, but I do intend to watch some movies.

Btw, I've also registered with Turkish and Japanese. These are at the same level as Arabic, except that I'm not even studying them at the moment. I still hope to get to 5 Japanese movies by the end of the year, though. I also hope I can find some time to study Japanese next year.
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cmia11
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Languages: French (N)
English (C1)
Spanish (B2)
Italian (B1)
Persian (A2)
German (A1)
Beginner in russian.
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby cmia11 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:13 pm

I'm really impressed that you read Phèdre (my favorite drama of all time in French) and L'amica geniale, what are your thoughts on those books? Did you find them difficult?
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Mista
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Posts: 608
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English (QN). Studied Ancient Greek (MA), Linguistics (MA), Latin (BA), German (BA). Italian at A2/B1 level. Learning: French, Japanese, Russian (focus) and various others, like Polish, Spanish, Vietnamese, and anything that comes my way. Also know some Sanskrit (but not the script) and Coptic. Really want to learn Arabic and Amharic.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7497
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby Mista » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

cmia11 wrote:I'm really impressed that you read Phèdre (my favorite drama of all time in French) and L'amica geniale, what are your thoughts on those books? Did you find them difficult?

I read Racine for the first time last year (Britannicus) and found it a lot easier than I had expected. Phèdre was also completely finein terms of difficulty, and very interesting. I've come to the conclusion that the challenge of reading Phèdre isn't in the language, but in the content. It's a classicizing tragedy, which relies heavily on classical tragedy both in terms of form and content. Fortunately for me, I have a Master's degree in Ancient Greek, and I think that helps a lot. It also makes it more interesting, since I read Euripides' Hippolytos when I studied Greek and can compare the two. There are some obvious religious differences between Greek antiquity and 17th century France, but there is also a striking similarity in the view of destiny and the will of God(s) (in the case of Racine, with his jansenist background, rather than the 17th century in general). Then there's the question: would it really be ok for her to marry her husband's son, if her husband died? The definition of incest varies between cultures, of course, but I imagine this is too close for most, even though it strictly speaking isn't incest at all in genetical terms. This is the sort of literature you want to discuss over a bottle of wine or two.

As for L'amica geniale, I haven't finished it yet, but I've read enough to have an impression. I should say that I have already read the whole quartet in Norwegian, so that obviously makes it easier to read in Italian. I also had an impression of it from the translation, and assumed it would be a good book to read for an intermediate learner. I had Italian for three years in high school, and this is the third book I read in Italian, so I'm not anywhere near the reading skill I have in French yet. But I have been using a technique I started using with French reading a while back, which is to underline words I need to look up. The idea is to read first and then look up the words at some later point. This is what I did for French, where I had a good reading fluency but was lagging on vocabulary when I started doing it. In Italian, however, where my reading fluency isn't great either, I've noticed that using this technique improves my understanding even if I don't look up the words. The act of underlining in itself helps me focus on what I understand and what I don't in a sentence, and it happens all the time that the moment I underline a word, I suddenly undertand what it means. So in terms of difficulty, this book combined with this technique is perfect for me at the moment.

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On to what I'm doing at the moment. I've completely left behind my weekly rotation schedule, and for the rest of the year, I'll be focusing on bringing all my SC languages up to 5 books and 5 films, which I set as my goal earlier this year. Right now I'm working on French, Russian and German.

French
I was reading Madame Bovary for a course I have withdrauwn from, so I decided to take a break from it and started on Candide instead. I read this for a class a couple of years back, and it's like a different books, it's so much easier now.

I've also picked up an audiobook from a previous SC, Marie Antoinette by Stefan Zweig, and had a similar sensation there: WOW, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING! Picking up old stuff is a good idea now and then, especially if you need an ego boost.

Russian
About a week ago, I followed a link in Radioclare's log to a travel program on YouTube, and a few days later I reached the magic number. I clearly need the listening practice, because it happened all the time that I suddenly understood what he said about 5 seconds after he had said it. And when he was in Sweden and explained how a "panteautomat" works, it made me realize I have no idea what that's called in any other language, or even if the phenomenon exists outside of Scandinavia. I know there was no such thing in the US when I lived there. So, what do you do with a "panteautomat"? You put your empty bottles in it, and get money back. If you have a word for it, in any language, let me know.

Reading Шинель by Gogol. First I read it once with the translation as support, then a second round with just the Russian text, I've almost finished that now. I think I'm going to do the same thing once again with the same book. My thinking is that some of the words are starting to stick with me, so maybe after one more round, I'll remember what they mean. I've been reading 4 pages in 30 minutes (my daily allotted time), while in French I read 10-12 pages in the same interval.

German
Reading Im Reich des Goldenen Drachen by Isabel Allende, and listening to Der Goldene Kompass by Philip Pullman. Once I finish the book, I'll pass on to another language, probably either Icelandic or Ancient Greek.
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Just_a_visitor
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, German)

Postby Just_a_visitor » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:31 pm

a "panteautomat"? You put your empty bottles in it, and get money back. If you have a word for it, in any language, let me know.
По-русски это фандомат - you see, we omit one syllable so it sounds almost as банкомат.
Last edited by Just_a_visitor on Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:44 pm

Mista wrote:And when he was in Sweden and explained how a "panteautomat" works, it made me realize I have no idea what that's called in any other language, or even if the phenomenon exists outside of Scandinavia. I know there was no such thing in the US when I lived there. So, what do you do with a "panteautomat"? You put your empty bottles in it, and get money back. If you have a word for it, in any language, let me know.
We don't seem to do bottles with a deposit in the UK anymore. It used to be you'd return them to the retailer, but then plastic bottles mostly replaced glass ones.

For recycling we put glass bottles, jars etc in a 'bottle bank', but there's no deposit return involved there.
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:40 pm

Mista wrote:And when he was in Sweden and explained how a "panteautomat" works, it made me realize I have no idea what that's called in any other language, or even if the phenomenon exists outside of Scandinavia. I know there was no such thing in the US when I lived there. So, what do you do with a "panteautomat"? You put your empty bottles in it, and get money back. If you have a word for it, in any language, let me know.


TOMRA (a Norwegian company) has been around since 1972. Apparently the phenomenon exists in Norway:
https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panteordning_for_flasker

It's exists in Germany as well.

And the US. There is a two-part Seinfeld episode about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_Deposit
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Mista
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Posts: 608
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English (QN). Studied Ancient Greek (MA), Linguistics (MA), Latin (BA), German (BA). Italian at A2/B1 level. Learning: French, Japanese, Russian (focus) and various others, like Polish, Spanish, Vietnamese, and anything that comes my way. Also know some Sanskrit (but not the script) and Coptic. Really want to learn Arabic and Amharic.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7497
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, Sami, Icelandic and Arabic + summer project Danish. romance la

Postby Mista » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:31 pm

DaveAgain wrote:We don't seem to do bottles with a deposit in the UK anymore. It used to be you'd return them to the retailer, but then plastic bottles mostly replaced glass ones.

We had the development towards plastic bottles in Norway, too, but the result is that you can now only deliver plastic bottles for money, while glass bottles have to go in the glass recycling containers (most glass bottles left were non-refundable, anyway). With the current focus on plastic in nature, I guess the deposit on plastic bottles is here to stay.

jeff_lindqvist wrote:TOMRA (a Norwegian company) has been around since 1972. Apparently the phenomenon exists in Norway:
https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panteordning_for_flasker

Yes, I can confirm that. I left that part out because it was so obvious to me. Sorry :oops:

jeff_lindqvist wrote:And the US. There is a two-part Seinfeld episode about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_Deposit

As usual, the United States are less united than I tend to think :lol:

I checked the dictionary for the German word, and unsurprisingly, they use the same word as we do in Scandinavia: Pfand (Flaschenpfand/Dosenpfand). This brought me further on to this overview of container deposit solutions in the world, where you can, among other things, learn that Sweden has the oldest solution of all, dating back to 1885. The article also confirms the situation in the US: 10 states have container deposit, 9 of them give 5 cents per bottle, but in Michigan, you get 10 cents :lol:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaschenpfand
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Nogon
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Re: Mista's new perpetual log (currently French, Russian, German)

Postby Nogon » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:19 am

Some advertising:
Panta mera :D
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