Coldrainwater's Log

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
coldrainwater
Blue Belt
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Magnolia, TX
Languages: EN(N), ES(rusty), DE(), FR(studies)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7636
x 2381

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby coldrainwater » Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:14 pm

german2k01 wrote:What is your ratio between fiction and nonfiction books in German? Let's assume, over the course of three months which ratio turns out usually in your case when it comes to reading fiction and nonfiction books? I am told that reading nonfiction books are slightly easier thus I am thinking about reading them in the beginning stage of the learning?
I read the autobiography of Steve Jobs in English therefore I am thinking about reading it in German.

My German reading database is 90/10 fiction to fact. Even if I added an estimate for newspaper and Wikipedia articles read, I believe the ratio would still be roughly the same. I think you will find a good mix of learners here and many have very strong preferences when it comes to the fiction/non-fiction distinction. Some journals have more balanced data to share or can express an inverse relationship that counterbalances my fiction-heavy list. Your plan to read Steve Jobs in German sounds like a good one. It is re-read, in translation and highly contemporary, a good combination to enhance approachability. I read the first few paragraphs of the text on Amazon and it seems ideal. Not too hard, but not exasperatingly easy either.
5 x

User avatar
coldrainwater
Blue Belt
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Magnolia, TX
Languages: EN(N), ES(rusty), DE(), FR(studies)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7636
x 2381

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby coldrainwater » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:08 am

Next up on my list of books to review is Die geheimnisvolle Insel (audible.de) von Jules Verne (wikipedia). This tale is marked as Capitaine Nemo #2 on Goodreads. #1 would have to be Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, a tale that I have listened to at least once while studying Spanish. This second instalment follows a group of American Civil War prisoners turned explorers that escape and end up balloon-wrecked on a remote island. It is told primarily through the lens of 19th-century scientific advancements. Survival mixed with science.

While I appreciate Verne as an author, this translation edition is not one I would recommend. I enjoyed the text with its older spelling conventions. Unfortunately, the audio periodically skipped content and generally made the LR process more challenging. I found the first half of the book long-winded but managed to stick it out and reach the more interesting second half. Overall probably a 3/5, assuming I would have liked it better if I had read it in the original under different circumstances. I am glad I read it side by side with Shackleton's expedition tale as they make for a reasonable comparison.
11 x

german2k01
Green Belt
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:16 pm
Location: Germany
Languages: English, Urdu, and German
x 573

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby german2k01 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:52 pm

In regards to learning German - I have two follow-up questions.

1. Have you tried reading contemporary authors? Who are your favorite ones?

2. Do you still consult bilingual/parallel translation when reading in German?
0 x

User avatar
coldrainwater
Blue Belt
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Magnolia, TX
Languages: EN(N), ES(rusty), DE(), FR(studies)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7636
x 2381

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby coldrainwater » Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:53 am

german2k01 wrote:In regards to learning German - I have two follow-up questions.

1. Have you tried reading contemporary authors? Who are your favorite ones?

2. Do you still consult bilingual/parallel translation when reading in German?


I haven't tried reading many contemporary German authors yet although I think they should be easy to incorporate. Translated contemporary fantasy has been most common as a learning tool thus far and my favourite author in that genre is Stephen Erikson (Malazan Book of the Fallen - goodreads). If you are looking for contemporary German authors and like the genre, Krimi/Horror/Thrillers are very popular and there is certainly plenty of talent in that area. Somewhat tangentially, I always recommend Der Name der Rose - Umberto Eco in almost any available language. I haven't decided when and how I plan to reread that one in German yet.

I still plan to use bilingual and parallel translations going forward (indefinitely) for harder material, such as philosophical texts or classics that might require too many lookups. My once and future reading sources will also likely vary considerably. As I read more on the web, Transover and similar Chrome extensions are likely to be extremely convenient and helpful serving a similar purpose to parallel texts. To boot, I am strongly considering using de.wikipedia.org more heavily since the sidebar offers an instant switch between so many languages. It feels very natural to alternate between reading complex topical overviews that way in German and English. I have a strong tendency to jump into longer primary source texts without doing enough of an overview ahead of time (see Clausewitz/Marx for example). Wikipedia can help to counterbalance that tendency.

I suspect I will want to read most fiction books monolingually to build a case for immersive reading without context switching, but I am not quite sure where the borders will be there since I haven't tested those yet.
9 x

User avatar
einzelne
Blue Belt
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:33 pm
Languages: Russan (N), English (Working knowledge), French (Reading), German (Reading), Italian (Reading on Kindle)
x 2877

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby einzelne » Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:26 am

coldrainwater wrote:I suspect I will want to read most fiction books monolingually to build a case for immersive reading without context switching, but I am not quite sure where the borders will be there since I haven't tested those yet.


I find pop-up dictionaries indispensable for immersive reading (specifically, I use Kindle app on my iPad). That's how I read complex texts which otherwise would be impossible to read without a parallel translation.
3 x

User avatar
coldrainwater
Blue Belt
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Magnolia, TX
Languages: EN(N), ES(rusty), DE(), FR(studies)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7636
x 2381

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby coldrainwater » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:20 am

einzelne wrote:
coldrainwater wrote:I suspect I will want to read most fiction books monolingually to build a case for immersive reading without context switching, but I am not quite sure where the borders will be there since I haven't tested those yet.

I find pop-up dictionaries indispensable for immersive reading (specifically, I use Kindle app on my iPad). That's how I read complex texts which otherwise would be impossible to read without a parallel translation.

Kindle pop-up dictionary is one of my favourites as well. I like that it neatly categorizes notes captured under read.amazon.com/notebook. For now, I stick with Android, but I wouldn't mind getting the old e-ink version out and reading a few books with it sometime in the near future. Whoever said we were blessed with technology of the gods wasn't far off the mark.
4 x

User avatar
coldrainwater
Blue Belt
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Magnolia, TX
Languages: EN(N), ES(rusty), DE(), FR(studies)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7636
x 2381

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby coldrainwater » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:05 am

The First Law

A few days ago, I finished a rather cool trilogy by Joe Abercrombie, namely the first three books from The First Law Series. When translated to German and cast as audio, the trilogy became the following hexalogy: The First Law. Once more, I had the good fortune of listening to David Nathan throughout. He may very well be the best in the business right now for German fantasy narration. He is also highly prolific. By his audible results alone, I suspect he has over 500 significant book narrations to his name.

The translated text was very approachable and probably about the same level of reading difficulty as Der Totengräbersohn, which I had previously marked as easy adult fiction. After listening to more than 75 hours of combined audio, I no longer felt the need to reference the text while listening and could finish the last few hours with audio-only. For reference, the three books combined had about 2250 pages and are generally meant to be read all together as I did rather than as stand-alone texts. I knew all that going in thanks to having perused a few preliminary book reviews.

It is notable that the pace was good and I felt engaged throughout. Too often, easier texts tend to drag on or I simply can't engage, but that wasn't the case with this series. Abercrombie does a very good job with character development, especially when it comes to casting morally grey characters. In short, he is very good at helping you care for some bad folks (perhaps a master craftsman in that sense). I noticed that even more upon reflection after reading the entire trilogy. It is woven right into the fabric of it all. The books are closer to low fantasy, so the magic system is secondary/background. Here, it might as well be seeping right out of the mud. World-building is minimal and easy to follow as Abercrombie spends most of his time developing characters rather than imagining the world they fight in. I would probably give the trilogy an internal personal rating of 4/5 (I would have preferred more complexity and difficulty/challenge) and a 5/5 for external review sites, especially given that Abercrombie accomplished everything he set out to accomplish and did it all with style.
9 x

User avatar
einzelne
Blue Belt
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:33 pm
Languages: Russan (N), English (Working knowledge), French (Reading), German (Reading), Italian (Reading on Kindle)
x 2877

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby einzelne » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:03 pm

coldrainwater wrote:I find pop-up dictionaries indispensable for immersive reading (specifically, I use Kindle app on my iPad). That's how I read complex texts which otherwise would be impossible to read without a parallel translation.

Kindle pop-up dictionary is one of my favourites as well. I like that it neatly categorizes notes captured under read.amazon.com/notebook. For now, I stick with Android, but I wouldn't mind getting the old e-ink version out and reading a few books with it sometime in the near future. Whoever said we were blessed with technology of the gods wasn't far off the mark.[/quote]

I also have a Kindle app on my Google Pixel. What I like about Kindle apps (in comparison to actual Kindle) is the possibility to use different colors in highlighting and quickly checking how the frequency of a particular word (by using the Find option). Besides, e-link screens, although they became more responsible, is still not that good if you need to check words constantly (and this is what usually happens when you're at the beginning of language journey or when you read some classical work).
3 x

german2k01
Green Belt
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:16 pm
Location: Germany
Languages: English, Urdu, and German
x 573

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby german2k01 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:44 pm

In regards to listening to 100 audiobooks in Spanish. How did you go about it? How long did it take you to achieve this feat? How was the ratio between unassisted listening vs L-R? Average books/month. Total listening time of those 100 audiobooks combined(recorded somewhere?)

I am thinking about doing it with my German learning. I will be recording the title and audiobook duration.
2 x

User avatar
coldrainwater
Blue Belt
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Magnolia, TX
Languages: EN(N), ES(rusty), DE(), FR(studies)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7636
x 2381

Re: Coldrainwater's German Log

Postby coldrainwater » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:30 pm

german2k01 wrote:In regards to listening to 100 audiobooks in Spanish. How did you go about it? How long did it take you to achieve this feat? How was the ratio between unassisted listening vs L-R? Average books/month. Total listening time of those 100 audiobooks combined(recorded somewhere?)

I am thinking about doing it with my German learning. I will be recording the title and audiobook duration.

The timing of your question is excellent as I am deciding on how to pursue a similar idea most naturally in German now. With Spanish, sourcing the audio material was a tougher consideration. Youtube, iVoox and Librivox were major audiobook sources for me. The German landscape for the same is a bit different as I understand it. I believe to max out audiobook options, audible.de, Youtube and one or two of the major paid subscription sources for German audiobooks will likely do the trick. The key element may be making sure there is plenty of variety to maintain interest and having a broad selection really helps.

Now and back then, I pre-load(ed) my listening by downloading all of my audiobooks to .mp3 or .mp4 format and use Smart Audiobook Player as my primary listening application with Kindle+Audible (Whispersync now if available) for material sourced from Amazon. I use over-ear headphones with a 60-hour charge to make it where I can listen under almost any life circumstance such as doing work with semi-loud equipment, exercising in various forms, long commutes with road-noise, and mountain hiking without an internet connection. I would often load 100+ hours at a time to make sure I did not run out and that the transition between one book and another would not involve much administration and decision making time. I remember it being important for me to have a good 5-10 books loaded so that I could choose freely and wasn't forced into a given book selection that I might not want. Thinking back on it, I also found it very helpful to have both podcasts and audiobooks loaded side by side so that neither skill area would slip and I could choose the most appealing option in the moment.

If text is desired as an accompaniment, I like to use .epub files and Calibre to convert to a .mobi file if wanting to send to Kindle and to .txt for counting words precisely and making parallel texts. Lately, I haven't used .pdf files very often since they scale poorly compared to .epub on my smartphone.

How long it took me in Spanish? More than six months as I recall: 3-4 months as an initial intense burst followed by a slow blended version alternating podcasts + audiobooks. I remember being able to leisurely consume an average-length audiobook in a few days and not feel rushed at all. Almost all of that listening was unassisted. Given the length of an average audiobook, it likely amounted to more than 600 hours of listening in total, but I don't have exact data to support that. I remember getting to a point where most audiobooks felt too easy and I needed to switch to podcasts to keep the difficulty level up.

With Spanish, listening was a much greater hurdle compared to other areas of language competency for me and that explains a lot of why I put in so much effort with audiobook listening. With German, I have a much more balanced repertoire of skills and am as tempted to improve via reading hard texts as I am by listening (not to mention working on my non-existent writing/speaking skillset and an ever-dwindling grammar disaster-set).

I saw you mention Dostojewski in another thread and am glad you found the plot interesting. I had been considering the same several books and may end up incorporating them into my listening as well, even if they are not perfectly matched to my current listening ability. I like that they are all Whisperysnc compatible and relatively affordable. It might be the right moment for Crime and Punishment soon. Recording title and audiobook duration is likely a good idea for me as well, even if some of my future listening is not at 100% attention and involves a strategic alternation between text and audio.
5 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests