Reading French

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Sahmilat
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Re: Reading French

Postby Sahmilat » Fri May 24, 2019 7:06 pm

I'm having fun doing French on the side and I'm using the same two books as you! I like them a lot so far, only problem is I don't feel like I'm getting enough listening practice.

Are you doing all the Exercices in Méthode Nature? I'm only doing the Exercice B (answering the questions in full sentences) because I am trying to just do one page of my notebook per chapter and those seem like the most useful. If I start struggling with the grammar I may go on to do more of the exercices though.
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eido
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Re: Reading French

Postby eido » Fri May 24, 2019 8:46 pm

So is it like with Spanish...

“¿Qué es lo que es cara, esta gorra?”
“Es que te estoy hablando claramente, ¿no?”

Something like that? I never understood the nuance fully between “qué es lo que es” and “qué es” although there /are/ differences. I know there’s differences between the two languages here, obviously and I’m probably wrong but I’m curious.

And “IC” is probably “CI” — “comprehensible input.”
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ロータス
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Re: Reading French

Postby ロータス » Mon May 27, 2019 6:25 pm

Thank you Morgana and Ser

Ser wrote:
ロータス wrote:I just wish there was more IC for KR :( ZH was so easy to learn by reading because there is just so many resources out there.

What does "IC" stand for?

Yes IC = comprehensible input. I used IC bc I see StringerBell use it as well.

Sahmilat wrote:Are you doing all the Exercices in Méthode Nature?

I do Exercices A and C.

27 May 19
Review notes on Chapitre 1-8 of Le Français par la « méthode nature »

Notes
  • Even though I brought my notebook and tablet, I didnt use them once while in NY because I was so tired after spending the day exploring xD
  • FIAF French Institute Alliance Française was really interesting, their library had a large collection of A1-B2 books that you can use as IC. I thought about getting the membership but want to wait to see how far I get with FR on my own. I did buy Mr X by Peter Straub for a dollar there.
  • Other books I bought during my trip: [FR] New Penguin Parallel Text Short Stories in French and [KR] 너의 이름은 by Makoto Shinkai.
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ロータス
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Re: Reading French

Postby ロータス » Wed May 29, 2019 12:37 am

28 May 19
Reviewed notes on Chapitre 1-8 of Le Français par la « méthode nature »
Chapitre 9 of Le Français par la « méthode nature »

Notes
  • Gez Ch9 is long. It is a little confusing because it is teaching past and future tense at the same time :(
  • Had to google about "Qu'est-ce que tu as" which showed up in this chapter
  • Since so much is taught in this chapter, most likely going to spend a few days on it to review and make sure I have a good grasp on all the new words and tenses.
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Ser
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Re: Reading French

Postby Ser » Thu May 30, 2019 1:49 am

eido wrote:So is it like with Spanish...

“¿Qué es lo que es cara, esta gorra?”
“Es que te estoy hablando claramente, ¿no?”

Something like that? I never understood the nuance fully between “qué es lo que es” and “qué es” although there /are/ differences. I know there’s differences between the two languages here, obviously and I’m probably wrong but I’m curious.

And “IC” is probably “CI” — “comprehensible input.”

There's not much of a difference between ¿Qué es [adj.]? and ¿Qué es lo que es [adj.]?, the latter is simply a lot less common. The situation is different in French, as French doesn't really have an equivalent of ¿Qué es [adj.]?, it only uses its equivalent of ¿Qué es lo que es [adj.]? (Qu'est-ce qui est [adj.] ?).

When it comes to content questions in general (who? why? where? how? how many?), in French, it's perfectly normal to add est-ce que, as it doesn't add any particular connotations; but in Spanish, adding es que emphasizes the emotional dimension of the question. Compare Où est-ce que tu les as laissés ? 'Where did you leave them?' vs. ¿Dónde es que los dejaste? 'Where on Earth did you leave them!?' (connotation of exhasperation, frustration, anger, etc.); Comment est-ce que vous l'avez fini ? 'How did you guys finish it?' vs. ¿Cómo es que lo terminaron? 'How on Earth did you guys finish it!?' (connotation of surprise, indignation, etc.).

Something similar to the last bit can be observed in polar (yes/no) questions. In French it's perfectly normal and unremarkable to make them by adding est-ce que (as in my last post in this thread). In Spanish though, es que typically adds a connotation of frustration and is often followed by acaso: ¿Es que acaso no me explico? 'Am I really not being clear?', ¿Es que no te entiende o qué? 'Does she really not understand you, or what?'.

By the way, when I say "Spanish" I actually mean "Latin American Spanish" here. I'm confident that a lot of people in Spain would find all this es que business unacceptable. :lol: This also goes for the related Latin American clefting (partimiento) construction using es que: Latin American a la tienda es que voy 'it's to the store that I'm going to' vs. Spaniard a la tienda es adonde voy, Latin American de esta forma es que lo logró 'this is how he achieved it' vs. Spaniard de esta forma es como lo logró.

So... IC = "input comprehension"?
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ロータス
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Re: Reading French

Postby ロータス » Thu May 30, 2019 10:08 am

Ser wrote:
So... IC = "input comprehension"?

Ah now I see what I did. Sorry I meant CI. So "comprehensible input". Feel like in my first post I should warn readers that I have dyslexia x.x
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Jean-Luc
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Re: Reading French

Postby Jean-Luc » Thu May 30, 2019 1:37 pm

Morgana wrote:
By the way, you are correct: there are other ways to ask questions in French (as you'll soon see in upcoming lessons). Subject-verb inversion is one way, eg. take the statement "Vous parlez français" (You speak French) and invert the subject and verb to turn it into a question: "Parlez-vous français?" (Do you speak French?) And I think you can use rising intonation on what would otherwise be a statement in order to turn it into a question, like in English.


With "est-ce-que" no rising intonation. With inversion, rising intonation on the last word.
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Re: Reading French

Postby Jean-Luc » Thu May 30, 2019 2:38 pm

ロータス wrote:Forgot to mention this before.

23 May 19

In Assimil lesson 2, we learn about 'est-ce que' and this has been so confused for some reason. Maybe because I'm translating but when I look at the sentence: "Est-ce qu'il est char, ce chapeau ? " the 'est-ce qu' doesn't seem needed to understand the question. Is it safe to just think of 'est-ce qu' as a question particle? xD

It is strange because I'm sure I have seen 'qu'il' and 'est-ce' before in Le Français par la « méthode nature » and had no problems understanding the readings but now when I see 'Est-ce qu'il' it feels unknown. Maybe it is the double 'est' confusing me...


We even say in France "il est cher le chapeau" with rising intonation on chapeau and also a light rising one on "cher"... Familiar.
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Re: Reading French

Postby ロータス » Fri May 31, 2019 2:15 am

30 May 19
Chapitre 9 of Le Français par la « méthode nature »

Notes
  • Finished reading Ch9, was going to do more but got distracted with Korean-research
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Jean-Luc
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Re: Reading French

Postby Jean-Luc » Fri May 31, 2019 7:00 am

[/quote]
There's not much of a difference between ¿Qué es [adj.]? and ¿Qué es lo que es [adj.]?, the latter is simply a lot less common. The situation is different in French, as French doesn't really have an equivalent of ¿Qué es [adj.]?, it only uses its equivalent of ¿Qué es lo que es [adj.]? (Qu'est-ce qui est [adj.] ?). [/quote]

We have in France "qui est-ce qui?" ou "qui vient dîner ce soir?" but only used with "qui" (who).
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