Cenwalh's Spanish Conquista

[MorkTheFiddle]

Watching TV is hard. Rather, watching series is hard.

This. Listening to another language takes more time and brain sweat than I ever imagined. Good luck!

[jeff_lindqvist]

Any time people ask about the topic, the advice given by members is always to just watch lots of a series and it will become as easy as watching TV in your native language. I'm sure that's true, but it takes so much effort persevering through the difficulty to get there when one only has so much time to dedicate to the task and there are other, easier things one could consume.

Well spoken. The only languages I'm comfortable watching are English, Danish and Norwegian - English has been part of my life since early 1980s, Danish and Norwegian on and off, but in recent years quite a lot. I though that my comprehension was OK - it was, but it has really improved this year.

If there's room for improvement even in languages so close to my native Swedish, I can't fathom the work you must put in in order to be able to watch Spanish TV comfortably.

Good luck!

[Cenwalh]

I finished an audiobook recently, Cuando me veas by Laura Gallego García. It was quite simple for me, but that's probably to do with it being another young adult novel. It took me 80% of the book to finally get into it - as it always does - but in the end I did enjoy it, so I've bought another audiobook by the same author which had the usual first half an hour of not knowing what's going on. It's worth noting that I'm still abysmal at long descriptive passages, missing almost all the meaning.

I'm getting concerned that I'm going to use up all of the books on Audible that are comprehensible to me before I can start on books for adults. That would be such a shame because I enjoy audiobooks much more than podcasts, or any other medium actually. I did find an audiobook subscription service for Spaniards that has a really big catalogue, but not being in Spain they didn't let me register. An alternative is Scribd which I might move to at some point.

It is becoming increasingly clear that I've vastly underestimated how easy it is to learn a language. I know that progress is logarithmic with diminishing returns, yet my satisfaction seems like it is too! I should know better because I've known that this is how it works for ages, and yet I feel ever more frustrated. The endless searching for content, the excusing myself from people so I can go listen to Spanish on my own, the stress of not being able to fit enough time in - it's a lot.

[kanewai]

I'm getting concerned that I'm going to use up all of the books on Audible that are comprehensible to me before I can start on books for adults. That would be such a shame because I enjoy audiobooks much more than podcasts, or any other medium actually. I did find an audiobook subscription service for Spaniards that has a really big catalogue, but not being in Spain they didn't let me register. An alternative is Scribd which I might move to at some point.

I can relate to this feeling. As a way out, I'd recommend 'cheating.' As in: listen to audiobooks and use English language-summaries to help you along.

For example, I'm currently listening to Como aqua para chocolate, and am really enjoying it. The chapters are short, which means that I don't mind listening to them more than once.

I'll listen to a chapter, and I'll mostly understand it. So I knew that in the first chapter Mama was mad at Tita for suggesting something that women in the De La Garza never did. I'm sure it had something to do with boys.

Then I read the chapter summary on shmoop, and realized that I had missed some major plot points.

The next morning I listened to Chapter 1 again, and amazingly my comprehension had skyrocketed. It went beyond just trying to follow the plot; now that I knew the plot for the chapter I was able to hear and understand a lot of the little details.

I've been repeating this with each chapter. This works for me for a short book like this; I don't know if I'd have the patience to try it with a longer book.

[coldrainwater]

Audiobooks are very near the top of my list too and I remember when I first crossed that bridge with Spanish. Sensory deprivation (listening with eyes closed) offered an immediate benefit. I like to imagine it as the inverse of using TV props. I integrated my listening at the time where I had some of each, which probably helped. When using audible, I always sorted by longest to shortest and ended up picking a YA by Rothfuss first and did it as a listen read (TL listen, TL read). I believe it was long enough that towards the end, I could let go of the text and still follow. The second was Catedral del mar, which was too hard. I ended up succeeding and loving it, but it took me too many calendar days to get through the hour count of the book. In retrospect, it would have been easier to just do Pillars of the Earth first, then try the native novel. If I were doing it again today, I would just go with their sample audio and not settle on a given audiobook until I found one that was just at the right level. For me, almost anything in translation was a stepping stone to native, just liked dubbed movies are. I would personally rate Scribd's audiobook selection as more contemporary and intermediate and would not discount ivoox and youtube as opportunities to fill gaps where Audible lacks (and they lack many, to be honest). Sure you can get plenty from Scribd, but I wasn't a huge fan of their selection (became repetitive quickly and quality just wasn't always there). You might also consider a few from Librivox, especially some of the more interesting classics if you find them pleasant.

If you like Stephen King (youtube along with tons of other audiobooks of similar genre), I definitely suggest you pick up at least a few of his. I remember listening to Eso (IT) while I was running the bayou trails and being able to follow the story. It happened a couple of times more with him. His language usage, especially in translation offers something special for language learners. I am sure much can be said for other authors in the same vein, but I am trying to pinpoint some to help you make a very nuanced jump and King came to mind.

[Cenwalh]

I can relate to this feeling. As a way out, I'd recommend 'cheating.' As in: listen to audiobooks and use English language-summaries to help you along.

For example, I'm currently listening to Como aqua para chocolate, and am really enjoying it. The chapters are short, which means that I don't mind listening to them more than once.

I'll listen to a chapter, and I'll mostly understand it. So I knew that in the first chapter Mama was mad at Tita for suggesting something that women in the De La Garza never did. I'm sure it had something to do with boys.

Then I read the chapter summary on shmoop, and realized that I had missed some major plot points.

The next morning I listened to Chapter 1 again, and amazingly my comprehension had skyrocketed. It went beyond just trying to follow the plot; now that I knew the plot for the chapter I was able to hear and understand a lot of the little details.

I've been repeating this with each chapter. This works for me for a short book like this; I don't know if I'd have the patience to try it with a longer book.

I'm not opposed to this, and wouldn't really call it cheating. I listened to the first chapter of my current book twice because I didn't catch it. The simple reason for me not doing it is that I find it hard to concentrate on second listen because I already have an idea of what's going to happen. That said, I may be left with no other option but to go ahead and do this if I truly run out of comprehensible books.

Audiobooks are very near the top of my list too and I remember when I first crossed that bridge with Spanish. Sensory deprivation (listening with eyes closed) offered an immediate benefit. I like to imagine it as the inverse of using TV props. I integrated my listening at the time where I had some of each, which probably helped. When using audible, I always sorted by longest to shortest and ended up picking a YA by Rothfuss first and did it as a listen read (TL listen, TL read). I believe it was long enough that towards the end, I could let go of the text and still follow. The second was Catedral del mar, which was too hard. I ended up succeeding and loving it, but it took me too many calendar days to get through the hour count of the book. In retrospect, it would have been easier to just do Pillars of the Earth first, then try the native novel. If I were doing it again today, I would just go with their sample audio and not settle on a given audiobook until I found one that was just at the right level. For me, almost anything in translation was a stepping stone to native, just liked dubbed movies are. I would personally rate Scribd's audiobook selection as more contemporary and intermediate and would not discount ivoox and youtube as opportunities to fill gaps where Audible lacks (and they lack many, to be honest). Sure you can get plenty from Scribd, but I wasn't a huge fan of their selection (became repetitive quickly and quality just wasn't always there). You might also consider a few from Librivox, especially some of the more interesting classics if you find them pleasant.

If you like Stephen King (youtube along with tons of other audiobooks of similar genre), I definitely suggest you pick up at least a few of his. I remember listening to Eso (IT) while I was running the bayou trails and being able to follow the story. It happened a couple of times more with him. His language usage, especially in translation offers something special for language learners. I am sure much can be said for other authors in the same vein, but I am trying to pinpoint some to help you make a very nuanced jump and King came to mind.

I agree it's so much easier when you close your eyes and have quiet surroundings! I bought some noise cancelling headphones for that very reason. I can't find any YA by that author, perhaps because we're not in the same country...

I haven't had much luck searching iVoox and Youtube for audiobooks in the past. I invariably find strange robotic voices split into dozens of parts which are hard to keep track of, although I'm hoping I'll have luck with Scribd. I have in the past been opposed to Librivox due to the language being a bit outdated, although my horizons are ever broadening (partly due to necessity).

I would have thought Stephen King might be a bit out of my range at this point, I have heard he can be a difficult read even in English. Although to be fair, I have never read (or far more likely but still not listened to) any of his work, so I wouldn't know. This delving into fiction whilst listening to Spanish audiobooks is entirely new for me as I have mentioned previously, and I do like it!

Did I read somewhere that you listened to like a hundred audiobooks in two years? That's quite some going!

[coldrainwater]

...I can't find any YA by that author, perhaps because we're not in the same country

It may have been the filter criteria. It would also help if I provided a title. From a UK link likely under fantasy, I found El nombre del viento. I am not sure what level the language would fall under, but the storyline fits the bill for YA 100%. I definitely had to see the words and listen along with it in order to capture enough comprehension at first since it was my first audiolibro.

I haven't had much luck searching iVoox and Youtube for audiobooks in the past. I invariably find strange robotic voices split into dozens of parts which are hard to keep track of, although I'm hoping I'll have luck with Scribd.

I think this can be chalked up to having the right keywords to search for on google/youtube/ivoox. When looking for audiobooks in Spanish, I always insist on going one of two routes: The most direct and most common is to always include ''voz humana" in your search and to distrust anything without that label. A second complementary approach is to look for ''audiolibro completo'' which is as close as you can get to searching for unabridged I think. Abridged audiobooks are some of the most disappointing finds ever. On youtube, looking for tons of likes often also means voz humana. Also, use google to search site-specific (site:youtube.com) or file specific (*.mp3 for example) if you are not already doing so. Google search is almost always superior to whatever engine is provided by the site in question. Both the aforementioned search terms help reduce multi-part downloads. Speaking of multi-part audio, I use SmartAudioBook Player on Android and it works miracles for managing audio. I think it costs a few dollars for the pro version. To use it, I simply 1) download all the mp3's. 2) Dump them in a folder. 3) Hit play and it takes care of the rest including keeping track of my position. One folder per resource keeps them all separated neatly. Audible and I ended up having a pretty short term relationship once I realized that their player didn't work well enough for high volume audiobook listens compared to others. With Scribd, you will get the full audiobook and an easy download, but your selection will be limited to what they happen to show you at the time. Their system is a mite strange. If you have trouble tracking down specific audiobooks, feel free to post here and I will see whether or not I have run across them. It is not very efficient to ''inventar el hilo negro'' when it comes to that sort of thing.

I would have thought Stephen King might be a bit out of my range at this point, I have heard he can be a difficult read even in English...Although to be fair, I have never read (or far more likely but still not listened to) any of his work, so I wouldn't know.

My impression of Stephen King was more than he is a masterful and even genius storyteller and that he goes out of his way to make his novels accessible to his readership. From the following link, I would agree that his style is honed and very carefully crafted to put the story first Quora perspective on his style. ymmv. He tends to avoid excess description, which can be the source of many superfluous vocabulary terms and he does have what I would consider a very conversational writing style.

Did I read somewhere that you listened to like a hundred audiobooks in two years? That's quite some going!

That is correct. I popped open my old Spanish workbook and have something like 60 titles listed directly, most under 300 audio pages a pop. They were culled from various sources and had content all over the map from Greek to Italian to Ricardo Palmo (Peru and yes very dated). It snowballed once I had a strong listening habit. Audiobooks in general roughly doubled the speed in which I could clear a book (though with some obvious tradeoffs) since they were narrated by human natives that spoke roughly twice as fast as I read. At a casual pace, I realized I could clear an audiobook in 2-4 days with good enjoyment. It was a 1-2 punch of combining good narration with the freedom of being able to listen anytime/anyplace than cornering time to read a book. Regardless of whether I was reading along with it or not, the audiobooks kept me on track, kept me focused, and kept me moving through the book which also accounts for greater productivity. Speaking of narration, I would not hesitate to listen to some books purely due to who was narrating it. Finding the YA link above made me remember how much I enjoyed listening to Raúl Llorens. The remainder of the books that got me from 60 o about 100 were likely mainly from Librivox and other free sources and I can 100% understand why you would not be fond of using Librivox often.

[Cenwalh]

I found El nombre del viento. I am not sure what level the language would fall under, but the storyline fits the bill for YA 100%. I definitely had to see the words and listen along with it in order to capture enough comprehension at first since it was my first audiolibro.

Yes I did that when I first started. Thanks for the suggestion, I've added it to my wishlist!

The most direct and most common is to always include ''voz humana" in your search and to distrust anything without that label. A second complementary approach is to look for ''audiolibro completo'' which is as close as you can get to searching for unabridged I think. Abridged audiobooks are some of the most disappointing finds ever. On youtube, looking for tons of likes often also means voz humana. Also, use google to search site-specific (site:youtube.com) or file specific (*.mp3 for example) if you are not already doing so. Google search is almost always superior to whatever engine is provided by the site in question. Both the aforementioned search terms help reduce multi-part downloads. Speaking of multi-part audio, I use SmartAudioBook Player on Android and it works miracles for managing audio. I think it costs a few dollars for the pro version. To use it, I simply 1) download all the mp3's. 2) Dump them in a folder. 3) Hit play and it takes care of the rest including keeping track of my position. One folder per resource keeps them all separated neatly. Audible and I ended up having a pretty short term relationship once I realized that their player didn't work well enough for high volume audiobook listens compared to others. With Scribd, you will get the full audiobook and an easy download, but your selection will be limited to what they happen to show you at the time. Their system is a mite strange. If you have trouble tracking down specific audiobooks, feel free to post here and I will see whether or not I have run across them. It is not very efficient to ''inventar el hilo negro'' when it comes to that sort of thing.

Good suggestions as ever, I shall bear them in mind.

He tends to avoid excess description, which can be the source of many superfluous vocabulary terms and he does have what I would consider a very conversational writing style.

This is key information as that is indeed where I (and probably many learners) struggle!

Thanks for dropping by and lending me your wisdom!

[Cenwalh]

It's that time of the month again where I count all the learning I've done. As in the last few months, it's just consumption of audio/visual based content.

I've made a real effort to get more visual based content such as videos from Youtube and television which is reflected in the results, so I'm very pleased with that. I'm getting through audiobooks at a similar rate, and pulling away from podcasts somewhat. I just find a long form story easier to concentrate on as I care about it more.

Consumption throughout the month:

Cumulative Spanish content consumption in November 2019.PNG

Compared to previous months:

Monthly hours consumed by media type if each month had 31 days.PNG

Overall I've done pretty well with a total of 77 hours. An average day would be broken down as follows:

Category	Hours
Audiobooks	0.9
Podcasts	0.55
TV	0.55
Youtube	0.73
Total	2.57

Progress is frustratingly slow, but still advancing. It's frustrating that this is as much as I can possibly consume, yet progress is only visible on the scale of months now. How nice it was at the start of the year to be able to see difference over days or weeks. I'm adding a progress bar to my signature for the 720 hours of input from July/August this year to July next year (as I noted in this log on the 20th July) to get me some sense of progress. The starting point is 285 as that's September - November (225) plus 60 hours from the end of July to August which I think is realistic.
720 hours of input from July 2019: 285 / 720

Anyway, I press on with the conquista and hope to complete the conquest of the language at some point in the 2100s...

[StringerBell]

It's worth noting that I'm still abysmal at long descriptive passages, missing almost all the meaning.

I'm getting concerned that I'm going to use up all of the books on Audible that are comprehensible to me before I can start on books for adults.

Cenwalh, you mentioned that you find it difficult to pay attention if you already know what's happening, so maybe this strategy wouldn't work for you, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. I'm also struggling with reading novels in Italian, though I have very good understanding of real time conversations between native speakers and TV/podcasts. My issue is that I'm missing too much uncommon/high level vocabulary, and some more complex grammatical structures.

I just recently starting doing R-L, and so far it seems to be working well. The way I'm doing it is:
-Listen to Italian audiobook chapter while reading English book.
-Relisten to Italian audiobook chapter while reading Italian book.

The first round I'm reading the English text to make it easier to understand what I'm hearing, but also to immediately "see" the definition of unknown words in context as I hear them. I try to picture the scene along with that unknown word so that it's easier for me to making sense of the unknown words when I'm later reading in Italian. I'm also paying attention to how the translator chose to translate certain ideas or expressions. This is useful for me to see which things just don't translate literally. By the time I get to reading+listening solely in Italian, the cognitive burden is gone and I can enjoy the story and the new words in context.

I don't know if this is something that could help you transition to adult-level novels, but it might be worth a try.

BTW, love your graphs!!!