Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 am

Music is still taking too much of my time, but I do take my time for language related activities in between those time gobbling score revisions, for instance by listening to music instead of just fiddling around with my own old dusty productions in preparation for putting them on a shelf somewhere on the internet. Creativity may be a good thing, but sometimes you just have to stomp on it to make it shut up. Otherwise you won't get anything done.

So for instance I have been able to do some Indonesian wordlists and read a magazine in Portuguese today while listening to my music files with Joseph Haydn.

GE: Ich habe in meiner Sammlung insgesamt 686,5 Minuten mit Musik von Joseph Haydn und dazu noch 165,5 Minuten mit Musik von seinem weniger berühmte Brüder Michael. Das gibt rund 13 Stunden für Sprachstudien, Essen und lautloses Fernsehgucken. Übrigens bin ich stolz, daß ich nicht 840 Minuten von Joseph und zero vom Brüderchen habe, nur weil der eine berühmt geworden ist und der andere nicht. Beide ware übrigens sehr produktiv - der Joseph schrieb zum Beispiel 104 Symphonien, weil er einen Arbeitsgeber hatte der immer neue Werken erwartete. Aber er hatte auch eine Frau die angeblich seine Manuskripten als Papier für's Backen benutzte. Und wenn sein letzter Musikkündiger Arbeitsgeber (Fürst Nikolaus Esterhazy) in 1790 starb, war er bereits so berühmt das er Konzertreisen (z.B. nach London) machen konnte, wo die Leute ihn bereits kannte und er Geld verdienen konnte. Anders wenn die Komponisten selbständige Kleinhändler wurden - dann fiel die Produktivität dramatisch für die meisten! Beethoven schrieb 9 Symphonien, Brahms und Robert Schumann nur vier, Franck nur eine einzige. Sibelius schrieb acht, aber verbrannte no. 8 im Kamin und schrieb die letzten 30 Jahren von seinem Leben fast nichts - aber da hatte ihm der Finnische Staat ja auch einen lebenslängligen Stipendium gegeben wo man vergessen hatte ihm immer neue Werke abzuverlangen.

Es gibt einige wenige Ausnahmen, wie Havergal Brian mit seiner 32 Symphonien. Aber wer kennt denn Havergal Brian - ausser diejenige die in Guiness gelesen haben, daß seine erste Sinfonie ("Gothic") fast zwei Stunden dauerte und ein IMMENSEN!!!! Orchester verlangte. Die spätere Sinfonien sind aber kürzer - wie 13,5 Minuten für no. 31 und 11 Minuten für no. 12. Aber immer noch eine beachtliche Produktivität. Und dann gibt is Faulenzer wie der US-Amerikaner Carl Ruggles, dessen gesamtes Werk laut der Deutschen Wikipedia zusammengerechnet nur etwa 80 Minuten dauert - etwa so viel wie 3½ Durchschnitts-Sinfonie von Joseph Haydn und weniger als der Gotische Mammut von mr. Brian oder fast jede beliebige Opera aus dem Standardrepertoir.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby asterion » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:04 am

Поштовање Ајверсен,

Не знам да ли сте упознати са политичком ситуацијом на Балкану, али она утиче на лингвистичку. Тако, између наводног "црногорског и српског језика" не постоје никакве лингвистичке разлике, једина разлика је што они који себе сматрају Црногорцима, а не Србима, инсистирају да им се и језик зове црногорским, док они из Црне Горе, који себе и даље сматрају Србима( међу њима сам и ја) кажу да говоре српски језик. Истина, разлика је што се у Црној Гори користи ијекавска варијанта, али та варијанта се користи и у Републици Српској, па је опет језик назван српским. Разлика постоји и у акценту, али она је присутна и у различитим крајевима Црне Горе која са те стране није хомогена.

Дакле, не брините...ако пратите црногорске канале, и даље слушате и учите српски језик. :D
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:47 pm

SE: Ја нисам стручњак за историју и језик балканских земаља, али сам посетио то подручје пре и после грађанских ратова, а такође сам прочитао описе језичку ситуацију. Ако сам добро разумео ову ситуацију, праве диалецтал разлике иду колико између обале и унутрашњости као и између Србије и Хрватске. Последњи пут када сам био тамо доле, купио сам "mlijeko" у Zadaру и "млеко" у Новом Саду, а могу да се носим са тим. До сада је сав свој писани градиво српских текстова на ћирилици, али ни ово то не гарантује да је хомогена. На пример, открио сам да је један од мојих текстова је било другачије - то је био из Републике Српске у Босни-Херцеговива. Али ја не могу пратити све мозаика, тако да вероватно научити мешавину дијалеката.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby asterion » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:20 pm

У праву сте, у Хрватској, Црној Гори, и БиХ( Републици Српској) се користи ијекавска, а у Србији екавска варијанта. То је због различитих гласовних вредности које је некадашњи словенски глас " јат" узео у различитим подручјима( е\ је\ ије). Ијекавска варијанта је тежа правописно. Знам доста образованих људи који не знају када да користе је, а кад ије, па пишу " дијеца" уместо " дјеца", или " цвјет" уместо " цвијет". И за то постоји правило...ако је када се реч изговори на екавском е кратко онда је у ијекавском "је", а ако је дуго, у ијекавском писању је "ије". Службено писмо српског језика је ћирилица, али њу, нажалост, све ређе срећемо, због лењости, а и друштвених мрежа.

Могу вам указати на неке грешке, овде или у приватној поруци, ако желите, наравно. Иначе, веома разумљиво.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:19 am

Just a remark for those who wonder what a halfempty bottle of milk is doing at this forum: the spelling is mlijeko, which is the one used along the Adriatic coast, both in Croatia and in Montenegro. But in Serbia it is spelled mleko, which illustrate that language borders (or whatever they are) don't follow the political borders down there. OK, maybe in a couple of generations that will be the case, but not now.

I have - again - spent a lot of time on music. or some inscrutable and counter productive reason I became dissatisfied with some passages in my Christmas Suite for orchestra, and now I'm basically revising the whole thing - precisely the situation I should have avoided like the plague. SO far I have reached page 60 in the score. But I have also done a wee bit of language study, including last night when I tried to use a Danish etymological dictionary as sleeping pill. Bah - it didn't work. I first read the introduction, which deals with language history on a rather superficial level, but it does mention the sound shifts that separate the different stages of Danish back to the reconstructed Indoeuropean artefact - and also some other relevant shifts like the one that separated High German from Low German. And because I still was wide awake at the end of the introduction I continued with an assortment of word etymologies, but to no avail. Then I got up and solved a couple of sneaky sudokos, and only then I was ready to fall asleep.

PO: Mas isso obviamente não é suficiente para aprender idiomas, e assim, portanto, também li alguns textos sobre frutas brasileiras. E há uma abundância de frutas no Brazil pela quais muitas são totalmente desconhecidas na Dinamarca. Eu apenas visitou o pais uma vez, mas me lembro que durante a minha estadia no Rio me orgulhava de não beber o mesmo tipo de suco duas vezes - e conseguiu, com um suco de frutas vermelhas aromáticas da selva como a única exceção (essa provei simplesmente para demais boa, mas eu esqueci de anotar o seu nome).

Uma das razões que me levaram a procurar as antigas folhas nas minhas pilhas é que eu assisti a uma reunião no meu clube de viagens na semana passada, onde um dos nossos membros contou de uma viagem a partir da a fonte mais distante do rio Amazonas até sua foz no Atlântico. Bem, de fato há algumas dúvidas sobre a questão de que fonte seja mais distante do Atlântico, mas foi no entanto uma excelente palestra. Agora eu personalmente não necesito fazer a longa viagem fluvial, poupando-me a experiência de dormir numa rede num espaço cheio de pessoas que roncam e os seus animais de estimação..

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby vogeltje » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:43 pm

Serbian mleko is like a dyslexic Dutch person has written melk haha. or their typing is just bad like mine.

Has the Croation pronunciation got an extra syllable in comparison with the Serbian one?
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:22 pm

Not really - the coastal form just has an extra palatalization.

I have been on a visit to my mother this weekend, and now you can of course expect the usual apology for decreased language study .. but ha ha, not this time. I hardly studied languages last week because I was busy writing music so for once there really wasn't any decrease to apologize for. I did some Russian wordlists, and on the way home (by train) I read four pages of popular science in Romanian. My active Romanian is somewhat rusty due to lack of practice, but at the passive level it still functions quite well. On those four pages I only found four or five words whose meaning I wasn't sure about.

RO: Cele patru pagini conţineau trei articole. Primul privind descoperitorii din tabelul periodic al elementelor, și pentru prima dată nu s-au au limitat să menționeze Dimitri Ivanovici Mendeleev. Marele chimist și fizician francez Lavoisier a împărțit cele atunci cunoscute 33 elemente prin proprietățile lor în patru grupe. Din nefericire Lavoisier a fost, de asemenea, un colector de taxe pentru l'ancien régime, ceea ce l-a costat un bilet simplu la ghilotina. După cum a spus sângeroaselul judecător Fouquier-Tinville, revoluția nu aveea nevoie de fizicieni. în 1865 în 1865, englezul John Newlands a remarcat că grupurii de substanțe similare să fi avut tendința să vină în grupuri de opt (așa-numita 'lege a octavelor "). Acum știm că se datoreaza faptal că al doilea nivel de electroni să poate gazdui opt electroni. Cu toate acestea, a fost rusul Mendeleev care a primit într-adevăr ordine pe atunci cunoscutele 66 de elemente, iar sistemul său este în continuare sistemul pe care elevii de astăzi să învețe. Și cu siguranță asta este un frumos sistem, unde numai un extensie cu pământuri rare rupe ordinea strictă.

EN: Before leaving by train I had time to read some magazines at the local library, and in the Danish "Illustreret Videnskab" I read a true horror story - much more scary than the X-men films a Danish TV channel had shown the night before (although I have to admit that I liked their visual effects). According to the article a physician named von Economo had come across a number of patients who fell into a state of utter stupor, sometimes for months, or - if the could act - did so in a grotesquely destructive way, which some of them ascribed to demons giving them orders. Others acted in an autodestructive way, which could involved involve scratching out their own eyes or piercing themselves with knives. There is (of course) an article on WIkipedia about this disease, but there it is only called Encephalitis lethargica, and the symptoms of patients who aren't totally lethargic are hardly mentioned. It has been assumed that the cause was brain damage caused by a bacterial or viral infection - a sleeping sickness epidemy had been around for some time when the first of Economo's patients entered his consultation. The article in 'Illustreret Videnskab' favors an alternative hypothesis, namely that something (for instance a viral infection) triggered an auto-immune response with horrific consequences. The Wikipedia article mentions that "Subsequent to publication of this compendium, an enterovirus was discovered in EL cases from the epidemic" (enterovira are for instance responsible for the kuru-kuru disease of New-guinean cannibals and mad cow's disease in cattle). On the other hand, another Anglophone source claims that "The disease is now considered extinct. The aetiological agent was never identified." Well, who knows ... maybe you'll wake up tomorrow and discover than you can't move a single muscle, let alone communicate, and that state will last for the last three months of your life, where you'll have to be feed soup and water through a tube. Or you'll wake up as a berserk and kill people around you. And then somebody will make a horror movie about you.

The only medicine which showed a really dramatic effect on the patients was levodope, which normally is used on Parkinson patients (L-dopa has also been used) - unfortunately the effect disappeared after just a few weeks. The quirk that caught my eye was that the man who discovered the effect of levodope was no other than the neurologist and author Oliver Sacks who wrote one of the most fascinating books I've ever read, namely "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat". I even painted my impression of that book, cfr. below:

RO: Articole româniste includ și diagrama Hertzsprung-Russell a evoluției stelare, dar fiind că am, de asemenea, un alt articol pe acest subiect eu voi amâna comentariul meu. Al treilea a relatat istoria de un observatoriu astronomic într-o casă în formă de navă stabilit de către un amiral binevoitor.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:38 am

I have read a number of articles directly from magazines I have bought during my travels, including one Lusophone National Geographic from 2012 and... yes, my archives reach far back .. the Catalanophone "El Correu de la Unesco" from December 1984. The magazine from Unesquistan tells about science fiction as of 1984, where the bulk of the digital revolution still was science fiction.

CA: El punt més curiós dels articles en El Correu és que tracten dels autors i escriptors que jo realment he llegit - la ciència-ficció va ser l'últim gènere literari que vaig deixar de llegir: es tracta de gent com Asimov, Heinlein, Hoyle, Stapledon, LeGuin i Vonnegut .. i si, per descomptat, els deus clàssics Verne i Wells. Ha passat alguna cosa en el gènere des de llavors? Jo realment no sé, excepte que hi s'ha hagut una allau de llibres inspirats dels jocs d'ordinador. Entre els articles es poden esmentar la descripció de com Isaac Asimov escrigé els seus llibres. La seva esposa pensava clarament que semblava un home posseït per un esperit maligne quan estava en l'estat d'ànim creatiu. Algunes trames va rebre dels seus somnis - però no es indica si parlava en el seu son. Un altre article discuta la tecnologia en la ciència-ficció - un article escrit per un rus amb exemples d'autors rusos. Aquesta è una perpectiva molt inusual, i jo no sabia molts dels noms abans. Bé, el nom de Tsiolkovsky è conegut, però per a una altra cosa que els seus obres literaris: en Konstantin va ser un dels pioners dels coets.

POR: O artigo mais interessante na National Geographic descreveu um episódio na história da Terra, ou seja, a transição do Paleoceno ao Eoceno, onde a atmosfera se encheu de gases de efeito estufa e a temperatura média do planeta explodiu. Não é totalmente certo o que provocou isso, mas um fator importante foi, sem dúvida, que os estoques de hidrato de metano dos oceanos foi lançado quando a temperatura atingiu um certo nível - e o hidrato de metano fica um gas de efeito estufa ainda mais potente do que o dióxido de carbono. Isso certamente vai acontecer novamente no futuro próximo - els estoques dessa substância instável estám lá em forma congelada no fundo dos oceanos e abaixo da superfície das tundras, e um dia no futuro prossimo eles vão derreter. Gostaria de saber se esta substância sinistra seja mencionada num romance ou conto de ficção científica...

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:06 pm

I have spent some time om music today and also been on a trip downtown to fetch my Christmas photos (!) from the photo shop, but in between I have been reading things on the internet and old magazines. I have just finished the 'dnevnik' from Serbia, and now they show a cultural program with a section about a film version of Carmen in Serbian, no scenography to speak of and uniforms from some 20. century war - as if Bizet was a science fiction author or heir to Nostradamus - luckily I hate opera so I don't care.

DA: I går aftes så jeg et program på engelsk om fundet af Homo naledi i Sydafrika, og det er naturligvis en god undskyldning for ...

AF: ... om oor te skakel na Afrikaans. Dit het alles begin met twee speleologen wat rondom kruip in 'n grotstelsel genaamd Rising Star wat 800 m van Swartkran (ook so genaamd in die Afrikaanse Wikipedia). Een van hulle sal die ander laten inhaal en kruip dus in 'n paadjie wat net gaa aan en aan en aan en aan en aan... en aan ... en aan .. totdat hy bereik 'n kamer waarvan die vloer is bedek met beendere. Dit het hulle berig 'n paleontoloog wat 'n uitgrawing georganiseerde. Maar hy was selfs te vet en styf om daarneer te kruip, sodat hy geadverteer het deur Facebook vir klein en maer professionele paleontoloë sonder claustrofobie, en 'n aantal dapper dames het sy vrywillig gemeld. Dit blyk dat al die bene (net aangevul deur beendere van 'n uil) van 'n nuwe hominied stam, wat vernoem was as Homo Naledi.

Maar hoe het die bene geraak in 'n byna ontoeganklik grot grot diep binne 'n grotkomplekse? Die oorspronklike navorsingspan het geen goeie verduideliking nie, tensy hierdie antieke wesens hul eie dooies begrawe. Maar sou mense met 'n brein soos 'n lemoen honderde meter hê gekruip in 'n pikswart grot met hul eie dooies familie in sleep? Skaars denkbaar!

Die alternatief kan wees dat 'n groep van naledis verdrink het en dat hulle lyke werd gespoel door die grot, miskien deur 'n sekondêre deurgang uit 'n meer toeganklike grot - maar hierdie hipotese het blykbaar kom van mense wat nie selfs hierdie spesifieke grot studeer het nie. Die oorstroming hypotes dien egter as 'n meer voldoende teorie, gegee die naledis sy klein brein, maar er hê een gebreek van een explicatie over hoe so 'n vloed sou verloop het. En niemand het nog getoon iets van een sulke sekondêre gang na 'n ander grotingang, waar 'n klomp van nat naledis kon skuiling hê gesoek gedurend 'n monumentale reënspoel.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:20 am

I have - as usual - spent a lot of time on music since the preceding messages. The problem is that when I look through my old works I want to change a few details here and there, and in most cases also produce parts, and these chores take more time when I get to the works that never were played by anyone. Those few I have heard have so to say been fixated in the state they were played once upon an time, and I hesitate to change them. Those that weren't ever played have not been 'locked' in the same way, so there I am tempted to change things. And the parts? Well, in most cases I didn't make them since I assumed that they never would be seen, let alone used by anyone. That is still the basic assumption, but since I now have learnt to live with the absurdity of producing music at all it doesn't seem much more absurd also to waste my time on extracting parts which nobody ever will use. However right now the IMSLP has run into problems because somebody has been tinkering with the system so I can't upload anything as a composer - and doing it as a third party (which seems to work) may cause problems with the copyright codes, so now I won't do more work before they get the site fixed.

Instead I have been organizing some future travel activity, including the part of it that concerns the gathering in Bratislava later this year (I have not yet subscribed to the conference in Reykjavík). The end result is that I'll take a week in Romania (Cluj-Napoca and Oradea) soon, and when the time comes I'll enter Bratislava on a Wizz Air flight from Tuzla in Bosnia and leave the town on an ICE train to Nürnberg. There the planning stopped.

RO: Nu avea crezut cu adevărat că să fie ceva de văzut în Cluj, dar se pare că există o mulțime de muzee acolo. Și în Oradea există o grădină zoologică.

SE: Тузла је још неоткривен за мене. Сећам се имена из извјештаји грађанских ратова, али ја још увек не знам шта ћу видети тамо. Ја само знам да сам могао да купим неке веома јефтине летове.
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