Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:50 pm

I wrote mine in oldfashioned sheet music format on ordinary A4 white paper with lines (made with a stencil duplicator or - later -by photocopying), using an antique fountain pen containing black ink. And that's how the sheets existed until recently, when I scanned the whole lot (with a few exceptions which should be revised first). I have read somewhere that music editors now often pay somebody to play the parts on a keyboard, and then some clever software converts it to oldstyle notation.

Once upon a time there even was a sort of notation that used words, namely the one of...

LA: ... Guidonis Aretini, qui monachus fuit abbatiae Pomponae apud Ferrariam et ibi praetabat musicam. Ille sciebat hymnum Pauli Diaconi cui lineae gradum formabant orientem:

Ut queant laxis
Resonare fibris
Mira gestorum
Famuli tuorum
Solve polluti
Labii reatum
Sancte Iohannes

Francogalli hodierni iam dicunt "ut", omnes alii dicunt "do". Guido tamen modo videbat "ut" quam nota fundamentalis quaelibet musicae, at postea ut/do cum sono "C" certe agnota fuit, et nunc Ut/do semper "C" significat, Re "D" et cetera. Sed 'numerus' ("rhythm" in lingva latina - vocabulum melius vehementer opus est!) non in 'ratione' (="system" -vocabulum melius etiam hic opus est!) Guidonis tractabatur. Guido etiam dicatus est inventationis 'rationis' notationis musicae cum partibus manus - "manus guidoni" - sed dubitandum est quod ille auctor esset rationis.

EN: But irrespective of whether or not Guido actually invented it - this last system could be seen as the first kind of musical notation in the form of a 'manual' sign language.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby vogeltje » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:04 am

I was going to upload my next recording of some violin peices but I am very, very stressed because people should NOT steal what is not theirs becuase it's mine. It is incredibly annoying, and absolultey unethical, but apparently not illegal, which I would change if i were the prime minister or had similar power. so I didn't upload the video today, but the video wasn't connected with this other problem, so I think that I will upload it soon.

I didn't practise the violin today becuase I was too stressed and upset, although now I think that I should have played, it would be better, but now it's too late, obvioulsy.

Music technology, yes I've heard that the composers can use technology that knows for example what the instruments can play like the lowest note etc. I write the notes like Iversen, with a pen on paper, but I've got manuscript paper so it's got the 5 lines, or you can print it from the internet as well like that. I want to try the things Jeff has written like Lilypad to write the notes like the printed ones, but I don't compose music. I've downloaded Lilypond then my laptop said it can't open it because it's from an unidentified developer. I will ask about this.

I looked at thesession.org and it's got lots of tunes. it hasn't got the backing tracks. should you play the tune without more instruments?

Where are your compositions? was your local sinfonietta a job or was it a hobby? I don't want to play in an orchestra but with a pianist or maybe 2 people would be ok. I really like playing with the backing tracks, so I think that it would be nice.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:45 pm

As some readers may remember from earlier references I do once in a while watch television - today for instance a program about Attenbourough's last visit to Madagascar, 50 years after the first one. But even though I did buy a Malagassy textbook during my own journey there I have been too lazy to learn the language, and therefore I can't comment on that program (see the indri below). The problem is that most of the documentaries I watch are in English - or with no sound, but Danish subtitles.

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Instead I would like to mention that two leading Danish DNA specialists, Morten Allentoft and Eske Willerslev, with their collegues have done a major study of the DNA in a lot of old skeletons, and they have arrived at some fairly interesting conclusions - with linguistic consequences. It seems that there has been at least three prehistoric migration waves into Northern Europe. The first inhabitants were the reindeer hunters who arrived as soon as the ice melted around 13.000 years ago, but to their annoyance a wave of agriculturists arrived arrived around 8500 years ago (which marks the shift from the paleolithic to the neolithic period in Danish history). However nothing lasts forever - the bronze age was brought to us with a third major migration wave:

"Allentoft and his colleagues found evidence for migration, in the form of a massive shift in the genetic make-up of northern and central Europeans at the start of the Bronze Age. Before 3000 bc, their genomes resembled those of early farmers from the Middle East and even earlier European hunter-gatherers. By 2000 bc, their genomes looked more like those of people from the Yamnaya culture, which arose on the steppe around 2900 bc. " (quote Nature).

According to archaeologist Kristian Kristiansen, who lead the archeologic part of the survey, these Yamnaya people spoke an Indoeuropean language, and this means that "the migration of the Yamnaya culture seems to solve the old conundrum about the origins of Indo-European language. "The mystery is solved -- the Indo-European language is first spread in Europe and then east to Iran and India," said Kristiansen. The Yamnaya eastern migration also solves the riddle of how the now extinct Indo-European language Tokaisk arose from within China. The new study strongly supports the “steppe hypothesis”, which claims that the Indo-European languages spread with these steppe people as late as 3,700 to 2,000 BC. (quote sciencenordic.com)

Ironically the Yamnaya were kicked out of their own homelands by an even more warlike tribe called the Sintashta, which has obscured the sequence of events, and the Tokharians (and other European stock) in central Asia disappeared or were absorbed when new populations from the East took over Central Asia.

So the Indoeuropeans up here in Denmark didn't first take a break in Greece - they arrived through Eastern Europe. And Wikipedia basically agrees:

According to the widely accepted Kurgan hypothesis c.q. Steppe theory, the Indo-European language and culture spread in several stages from the Proto-Indo-European Eurasian homeland in the Pontic steppes, into Western Europe, Central and South Asia, through folk migrations and socalled elite-recruitment. (...) Between 4,500 and 2,500 BCE, this "horizon", which includes several distinctive cultures, spread out over the Pontic steppes, and outside into Europe and Asia. Early migrations at ca. 4200 BCE brought steppe herders into the lower Danube valley, either causing or taking advantage of the collapse of Old Europe.
The Anatolian branch, to which the Hittites belong, probably arrived in Anatolia from the Danube valley. Migrations eastward from the Yamna culture founded the Afanasevo culture which developed into the Tocharians. (...)
The western Indo-European languages (Germanic, Celtic, Italic) probably spread into Europe from the Balkan-Danubian complex, a set of cultures in Southeast Europe. At ca. 3000 BCE a migration of Proto-Indo-European speakers from the Yamna-culture took place toward the west, along the Danube river, Slavic and Baltic developed a little later at the middle Dniepr (present-day Ukraine), moving north toeard the Baltic coast. The Corded Ware culture in Middle Europe (third millennium BCE), which materialized with a massive migration from the Eurasian steppes to Central Europe, probably played a central role in the spread of the pre-Germanic and pre-Baltic-Slavic dialects.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:41 pm

vogeltje wrote:I looked at thesession.org and it's got lots of tunes. it hasn't got the backing tracks. should you play the tune without more instruments?


No backing tracks. The melody is all there is to it - if you play it alone or together, it's up to you. There are no default arrangements, harmonies or chord progressions, nor improvisations or solos. With or without backing instruments.

vogeltje wrote:Where are your compositions? was your local sinfonietta a job or was it a hobby? I don't want to play in an orchestra but with a pianist or maybe 2 people would be ok. I really like playing with the backing tracks, so I think that it would be nice.


1 On my computer. 2 Hobby.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:20 pm

IT: "L'apostille (originariamente dal latino a post illa dopo quelle cose, poi passata al francese apostille) è una certificazione che convalida, con pieno valore giuridico, sul piano internazionale l'autenticità di qualsivoglia atto pubblico, e in particolare di un atto notarile." (Wikipedia)

Ho finito la mia lettura notturna dell'apostilla econiana, sebbene la seconda parte fu meno interessante della prima. Eco discute lungamente la nozione di "postmodernismo" - ma perché? Questa è una nozione confusa e di poca valore esplicativa, e non vedo nessun avantaggio nell'associazione (o non-assosiazione) della Rosa al movimento cosidetto postmoderno. Per contro è rilevantissimo discutere quanto la visione di Eco sia conforme alle idee che potrebbero avere il giovane monaco Adso di Melk nel libro - colui chi nel libro funziona come portavoce dell'autore - o se un uomo como Guglielmo Maigret miss Marble da Baskerville sarebbe veramente possibile nel mondo medievale.

LA: Postilla Econis finita, successor suus erit Asterix Gallus in lingua latina. Ut olim scripsi, decrevi sollerias meas linguae vocis latinae restituere, et eo proposito lectio Asterigis optima sit quoniam sermonem cotidianam pro stilo docto scriptorum antiquorum emulare affectat. Postea forsitan translatio libri secundi Harrigis Potteris denuo lectanda sit.

SCO: The day ah hae listened tae a television program aboot the history o the continents, wi a wee leed aboot amang ithers the kenable platypus, wilk the cannie scientists o Europe didnae believe thare awn eyes when they saw the first hide thareof, but 't is a true critter that still lives in Australie. The kinch is that its forebears aw lived in Antartica (whit 190 million years ago was a growthie and cosy steid) - sicweys providing ane maire sign that the two in the auld days both belonged tae the great Soothern supercontinent Gondwana. The guid thing aboot this program wis that is was spaken in 'Scots light' (not the real McCoy, but Anglish wi just a whiff o Scots accent) - not a hantle, but better than naucht.

In 1994, when ah visited Brisbane, the town still had an indoor zoo named Gondwana Rainforest Sanctuary, but the main pairt wis killed and murdered and slaughtered already in 1995, and the last remnant - a butterflee house - wis killed and murdered and demolished in 2005, and a big and ugly office castle wis erected on the site as a monument tae human greed. Even the canals were killed and murdered and demolished and filled up, and now Gondwana shall be a forgotten name in Brisbane ere Astralie crashes intae Asia ane day.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby vogeltje » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:56 pm

Iversen wrote:As some readers may remember from earlier references I do once in a while watch television - today for instance a program about Attenbourough's last visit to Madagascar, 50 years after the first one. But even though I did buy a Malagassy textbook during my own journey there I have been too lazy to learn the language, and therefore I can't comment on that program (see the indri below). The problem is that most of the documentaries I watch are in English - or with no sound, but Danish subtitles.

Indri_F3221b02.JPG


The indri is amazing haha. Have you seen galagos in Madagascar? they are really cute.


I met some Japanese people today :) they were very nice and one told me that she loves birds!!!!!!! She saw that my clothes had birds on, and then she said that the Japanese crow is smaller than the English one, but I think maybe she had seen a raven who live in the Tower of London. We talked in English becuase they don't speak French and unfortuanetly I can't speak japanese, but we understood each other no problem.

I have practised the pieces from ireland and Scotland and I will post them soon, also my other recording with more pieces from the first book. I have saved Iversen's notation of my first recording pieces on my laptop, it is brilliant that he has done that.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:10 pm

Actually there are no galagos on Madagascar - they live on mainland Africa and are also called bushbabies because of the wailing sounds they emit during the night. I have seen and heard them there, but only at a distance - and during the night mostly just see them as as shining eyes in the trees. In Eastern Asia there are tarsiers with enormous eyes, and on Madagascar there are lemurs of a lot of different sizes. I think I once published a picture of a tarsier on HTLAL, but since we are in another location now it should be OK to show it again and mention that I saw them in a sanctuary near Tagbilaran in the middle of the Philippines - and they were as weird in reality as they are on the pictures. As for ordinary lemurs I have seen some of them in the wild or in special sanctuaries on Madagascar. At one place to the East in Madagascar they fed the small bamboo lemurs with bananas at precisely five O'clock every day in the week, and even though the critters normally hide in the treetops you can see them close up when they are lured down from the foliage by the banana fairy.

IND: Untuk sampai ke tempat perlindungan saya belayar dengan feri dari kota besar Cebu ke bandar kecil Tagbilaran, di mana saya menginap di sebuah hotel. Keesokan harinya saya menghalau dengan taxi ke tempat kudus ('sanctuary'), dan kemudian saya berjalan pulang dari tempat tarsier ke bandar, dimana saya makan pizza dengan cola "ad libitum" - minum beberapa liter! Terdapat sebuah bangunan dengan video dan panduan-panduan, dan supaya mereka pergi dengan panduan sekitar dalam hutan berpagar (dengan rangkaian-rangkaian di sekitar dan di atasnya, jadi burung pemangsa tidak dapat masuk dan makan tarsier). Dan yang gambar haiwan di bawah.

I have to apalogize for not writing this in Tagalog (or maybe Cebuano). I actually bought some small Tagalog/Pilipino dictionaries and a language guide to Cebuano while I was there, but back home I realized that those booklets weren't enough to read even a simple text - I had big problems finding the words I needed in them. Next time I'll buy something more substantial - at least at the level of my Tuttle for Indonesian and my Oxford Fajar for Melayu. Unless of course the Philippinos stop speaking their own languages and switch to pure English - they are already halfway there! Then I can understand them without buying dictionaries in their languages.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby vogeltje » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:06 pm

Iversen wrote:Actually there are no galagos on Madagascar - they live on mainland Africa and are also called bushbabies because of the wailing sounds they emit during the night. I have seen and heard them there, but only at a distance - and during the night mostly just see them as as shining eyes in the trees. In Eastern Asia there are tarsiers with enormous eyes, and on Madagascar there are lemurs of a lot of different sizes. I think I once published a picture of a tarsier on HTLAL, but since we are in another location now it should be OK to show it again and mention that I saw them in a sanctuary near Tagbilaran in the middle of the Philippines - and they were as weird in reality as they are on the pictures. As for ordinary lemurs I have seen some of them in the wild or in special sanctuaries on Madagascar. At one place to the East in Madagascar they fed the small bamboo lemurs with bananas at precisely five O'clock every day in the week, and even though the critters normally hide in the treetops you can see them close up when they are lured down from the foliage by the banana fairy.

Tarsier_F3734b04.JPG


Lemurs are cute as well. banana fairy hahaha



Here is my recording when I played some irish and scottish tunes and also one klezmer piece (the klezmer one was too long and bit boring I think), but I made some mistakes and in the klezmer I laughed becuase the CD repeated, but I had forgotten. in some places i had to play in 3rd position, which unfortuanetly was a bit out of tune. sometimes my vibrato seems ok then not, but my teacher said that it's difficult and that the learners must have patience.

maybe you or Jeff know the tunes. I don't know if they are famous ones.



If it would be better to post my violin pieces on my own log please tell me.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:04 pm

You are welcome to post your tunes here - then you can make a "Vogeltje's greatest" like the big bands later on in your own log simply by copying the references from the edit box. I'll listen to the new recordings later - right now I'm listening to a totally forgotten symphony by a totally forgotten composer named Fesca.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:43 pm

vogeltje wrote:Maybe you or Jeff know the tunes. I don't know if they are famous ones.


O'Carolan's Welcome - https://thesession.org/tunes/1055 (this kind of repertoire is known by everyone but not common in sessions)
Drowsy Maggie - https://thesession.org/tunes/27 (perhaps the #1 reel which everyone knows but nobody plays)
The third one sounds Scottish, and it's not a tune I know.
Peter Street - https://thesession.org/tunes/1171 (a Scottish reel)
Majofis - https://thesession.org/tunes/7881 / https://thesession.org/tunes/8084 (perhaps the #1 klezmer tune which everyone knows)
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