Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:57 pm

I had finished my study texts in a number of Slavic languages, and when such a thing happens it will inevitable mean that I get less training in that language. I have some readable booklets in Russian, and I still had some Polish bilingual texts, but finished them yesterday. So yesterday I made a couple of new text collections, and I make a few more in the remaining languages soon.

The last thing I studied in Polish (and Russian) was the astronomical bouquin which I have mentioned earlier. I first finished the last few sections about black holes and after that I went through an article about the French astronomer and mathematician Laplace in the same three-lingual format. But now I have finished that and need something new to study. Likewise I have finished my archeological anthology in Bulgarian, so making a replacement also on my to do-list. But yesterday I did produce text collections in Serbian and Slovak ... well actually I just now notice that my 'Serbian' collection come from homepages marked .rs, which refers til the Serbian Republic inside Bosnia, so that will explain why there are a number of words which aren't in my Beograd-centered dictionaries. But it is close enough to the language I want to learn.

SER: Прво постоји кратак чланак о солстицију, али затим дужи чланак о значају (за пчеларе) одржавања својих пчела срећним и добро нахрањени током зимских месеци - избор са www.agroinfo.rs). Али ја немам пчеле, па сам објавио реч лептир на интернету и такође преузео неке текстове о тим створењима.

And in Slovak:

SLK: A pokračoval som s motýľmi, keď som musel urobiť svoju zbierku slovenských textov. Požičal som si článok na Wikipédii, ktorý okrem iného hovorí o proboscis motýľa a o sacom vákuu a o primitívnych kuklach, ktoré majú vyčnievajúce nohy a tykadlá.V tomto texte je veľa zvláštnych slov, takže pokračoval som teda menším technickým textom o entomológoch, ktorí sa menej odlišujú od svojich študijných objektov. Dovolil som si preto túto nerozvážnosť to nechať pustiť to G.T. preložiť tento článok do afrikánčiny.

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PS: my painting above purported to extend into four dimensions, but sadly it ended up using only two - plus the time it will take to look at it. The butterflies and the fish may have turned up as some kind of consolation.

I'm also going to make text collections in Bulgarian and Polish soon, but there's no need to hurry. First I'll start using the ones I mentioned - plus some others that currently stand on my notestand beside my confy chair.

Since last Friday I have also made a French wordlist with around 400 words and I'm in the middle of the repetition round for it. Actually French isn't one of my main worries, but you can always use a couple of words more. Besides you may notice some curious differences between French and Danish (or English). For instance "coup d'épaule" is translated as 'håndsrækning' (helping hand). The Danish word implies that you reach out with you hand to help somebody, while the French expession suggests that you use your shoulder to push something. OK, the French also have "coup de main", but among the many meanings of "coup" few suggest some kind of prolonged helping action.

FR: Parfois on s'étonne que les français aient continué à utiliser une forme d'un mot d'emprunt qu'il aurait été facile d'adapter, comme par example "escalator" (au lieu de *escalateur). Or j'ai recherché un peu concernant précisément ce mot (ou encore plus précisément: j'ai consulté l'omnisciente Wikipédia), et il s'avère que le mot escalator ' "est une marque appartenant à la branche française de la multinationale Otis (Puteaux)". Donc un escalier mécanique quelconque (sans égard au fabricant) s'appelerait mieux escalateur - ou tout bonnement 'escalier roulant'.

Continuing the reference to Slovak: I went to the language café today, and while nobody came last Monday we reached 8 persons today. That made it possible to make one purely English group and another partly English, partly Danish. I first talked German with a lady, and we were joined by a young lady from Vienna. But then we were also joined by another young lady who didn't speak German, and then we slipped into a mixture of German - Danish - English. The girl from Vienna said that she would like to learn Danish, but since she would return to her hometown soon I asked her whether it wouldn't be more logical for her to learn Slovak. Actually it takes just half an hour by bus to go from Vienna Airport to Bratislava, and there are direkt trains from one city center to the other. But no - it doesn't seem that any Viennese citizen has ever thought about learning Slovak, and the Slovak girl had forgotten all but a smattering of the German she once had learned in school. And thus close neighbours end up speaking in English to each other. By the way: I made a deal with the Slovak lady: if she returns next Monday I'll bring along a text, and then she'll tell me if my pronunciation is totally off the mark or not.

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SW: Och just nu lyssnar jag på "Parlamentet" på TV4 från Sverige - ganska underhållande (men formatet - minus piska för dom deltakare som inte kan de svåra svenska ord - uppfanns sannolikt i Norge).
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:55 pm

I have spent some days at my mother's place, and as usual that has not helped my study activities. We did produce two kinds of jam in addition to the one we concocted during my last visit - and if we hadn't done this her freezer would have been overflowing with fruit.

I had planned to have a go at Slovak and therefore brought the Lingea "Slovak phrasebook", supplemented by the micro Slovak-German dictionary from Langenscheidt. But the strategy didn't quite function: while working with the phrasebook I felt I spent more time looking words up because it only gives Slovak expressions and sentences with their 'pretty' translation, but not the essential hyperliteral translation. Some people may not think this are essential, but I feel that learning expressions and sentences without knowing exactly what they really mean is frustrating and confusing - something equivalent to trying to learning nonsense words that fill a whole line. So I dropped the phrasebook and just copied most words starting with A,B,C with a translation where necessary - not a complete three-column wordlist, but better than nothing.

After my return I have read a bit of Wikipedia to learn more about pectin, i.e. the stuff that makes jam thick, and I have made a bilingual Slovak-Danish study text based on the Slovak Wikipedia text about pektin.

I also brought along some French texts from the homepage of Science et Avenir - the excellent francophone science magazine which I buy every time I'm down there (alas, not likely to happen again soon). Long time ago I have read and referred to an article about the mysterious Gigantopithecus (now proved to be a distant relative of the orangutans, just much bigger), but then I put the text collection into my travel bag and forgot all about it. This time I have read about ..

FR: .. les virus de pandore, qui sont ellement énormes qu'on peut les voir dans un microscope optique. Mais la taille n'est pas la seule chose étrange à propos de ces trucs sémi-vivants: cinq espèces avaient été trouvées avant la publication de l'article, mais elles n'ont qu'une petite partie de leurs gènes en commun - et leur ADN est si différent de tout qui existe ailleurs (y compris de l'ADN de bactéries, de plantes et d'animaux) que l'on estime qu'ils tout simplement produisent de nouvelles combinaisons comme sur les chaînes de montage et les stockent ensuite. Un virus pandora peut contenir 1500 gènes différents, contre une douzaine dans un virus commun - et personne ne sait pourquoi.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:09 pm

Iversen wrote:
FR: .. les virus de pandore, qui sont ellement énormes qu'on peut les voir dans un microscope optique. Mais la taille n'est pas la seule chose étrange à propos de ces trucs sémi-vivants: cinq espèces avaient été trouvées avant la publication de l'article, mais elles n'ont qu'une petite partie de leurs gènes en commun - et leur ADN est si différent de tout qui existe ailleurs (y compris de l'ADN de bactéries, de plantes et d'animaux) que l'on estime qu'ils tout simplement produisent de nouvelles combinaisons comme sur les chaînes de montage et les stockent ensuite. Un virus pandora peut contenir 1500 gènes différents, contre une douzaine dans un virus commun - et personne ne sait pourquoi.

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So the Day of the Triffids was a prophecy rather than novel? :shock:
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:28 pm

Interesting thought, but during the millions of years that the Pandora virusses have existed they have still not succeeded in taking over the planet - on the contrary, it has taking humankind thousands of years to find them in spite of their being are so big that you almost can see them. So becoming extremely bloated and complicated has not turned out to be better survival strategy than being small and simple and thoroughly mean - like the covid virus. No epidemic has so far been caused by a pandora virus...

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:59 am

Since Friday I have watched and to some extent listened to a fair amount of television programs, and the listening part is not the least relevant part of that - I listen more to (instrumental) music than I do to speech - even if you include Danish. Much of the speech was of course in English or Danish, some in Swedish and Norwegian, but I did happen to run into some OK programs in Italian and Spanish - and I would have listened to the whole lot in them if it weren't for the tendency to infest them with disgusting nausating background 'music'. For instance I listened to one Passaggio al Nord-Oeste and 2 x Linea Verde in Italian Sunday, and I also happened to run into a program about fungus plucking in Spanish.

SP: He siempre considerado la recogida de setas un deporte para posibles suicidios, pero por supuesto hay personas que han aprendido a evitar las especies peligrosas. Sobre los infortunados quienes no aprobaron el curso no se oye mucho. A una de las especies comestibles (una especie de rebozuelo) se le ha dado un nombre amenazador solamente porque la élite de recolectores de hongos así puede reservarlos todos para ellos mismos sin compartir con los aficionados..

Créo que ya le hablé del compositor Schobert (con o): su posadero se negó a servir los hongos que el hombre mismo había recogido, pero su médico los aprobó, y señor Schobert invitó al médico a la comida familiar y todos murieron, excepto un muchacho travieso que se negó a comer el plato.

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IT: Su RaiUno ho visto, tra l'altro, un programma su Palermo, il capoluogo della Sicilia. Ho visitato questa città (e la sua vicina Monreale) parecchie volte, ma la prima volta (nel 1980) ero in vacanza a Taormina, e qui stavo ascoltando le previsioni del tempo in tv ogni giorno. Sapendo tutto sopra il tempo ho preso l'autobus per Palermo, dove splendeva il sole e ho passato una bella giornata senza essere ucciso dalla maffia. Quando sono tornato c'erano nuvole nere e pioggia per tutto il tragitto, e il resto del gruppo avevano passato tutto il giorno in un bar mentre la pioggia cadeva fuori dall'hotel. Ciò dimostra l'utilità di comprendere la lingua locale di una sua destinazione.

EN: Apart from that I have done Slovak wordlists and studied a text about Slovak entomologists.

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Addendum: POR: fui ao Language Café hoje, e uma das outras participantes era uma jovem brasileira, e o atendimento era suficiente para permitirmos formar a nosso próprio pequeno grupo lusófono com dois membros, deixando três pessoas para um grupo de língua inglesa que mais tarde mudou para o dinamarquês porque dois participantes eram estrangeiros que queriam praticar o dinamarquês. Então, nós dois tivemos ambos uma rara chance de falar português por quase uma hora e meia sem ter a consciência culpada..
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:07 pm

I'm sorry, but this time I'll have to be brief.

I have undertaken a herculean task: to read my own log from page 1 onwards. With I bit of luck I'll be through in less than a month, else it'll be around Christmas.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby javier_getafe » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:04 pm

Seeking for something concrete or plainly wanting to take a glance at old memories?
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:30 pm

No, I just feel that have forgotten too much and now I want to be reminded about the things I have been working with since the start of this forum. The time will of course have to be taken from other activities, but it is not lost - I am confronted with texts in a fair number of languages (albeit written by a non-native autor), and it is in itself a test of the efficiency of my learning whether I still can understand what I wrote here several years ago (luckily I mostly do).

SP: Hoy fui al café de idiomas, pero la asistencia fue baja - quiza porque tenemos vacaciones de otoño. Hablé la mayor parte del tiempo en español con un hombre que había ido a la escuela nocturna tres años para aprender el idioma. Su esposa sigue el mismo curso, pero no hablan español juntos en casa porque -dice él- a ella no le gusta que haya algo erróneo en lo que dice. Ya sabemos que esto es una actitud problemática porque retrasa el salto a convertirse en un usuario activo del idioma. Hablamos también un buen rato con una dama joven de África que quería practicar el danés. El problema para immigrantes es encontrar a alguien con quien hablar en danés, y la solución debe ser hallar un pasatiempo que se pueda cultivar en grupo con hablantes nativos. Ella misma mencionó ver televisión y hornear pasteles, y puede ser que existen grupos de panaderas caseras, ¿pero como hallarlos?

Hablando del español, por supuesto, he leído que Madrid está ahora en estado de emergencia y cerrada como en la primavera. Me sorprende que antes del resurgimento actual no se ha podido inventar herramientas más precisas. Uno debe in primer lugar preguntar qué vías de infección hay y como se puede eliminarlas. Participación en reuniones de borrachos es evidentemente una estupidez en este momento (incluso después de partidos ganados de fútbol), pero debe haber otros elementos culturales que deben tenerse en cuenta. Besos en la mejilla estan ahora una cosa del pasado, ¿no?

En Dinamarca, recientemente hubo otro brote importante entre los trabajadores de un matadero. Tal vez vivan en apartamentos abarrotados para enviar dinero a la familia en el extranjero - al menos esto fue el caso tanto en una brote anterior en otra ciudad de Dinamarca como en un grande matadero en una ciudad alemana.

Y los visónes pueden atrapar la corona. La cría de visones en este pais está actualmente muy afectada. Peró si visónes pueden atrapar el virus, ¿como entonces está la situación de los gatos y perros en las casas privadas?

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:57 pm

I have so far read the first 24 pages from this thread, so now I only have 5/6 left --- I guess it will take more than one week to get through it all. The most striking observation so far has been that I did the same things five years ago as I do today. I won't go into details with it all since I already have written about every single things once (per definition), but I do have to point out that I still had a fulltime job when the thread started on page one (and when I contributed to HTLAL before it became all but silent), and it is strange that I had time to write anything back then, let alone study a fair number of languages. I quit my job mid December 2016, and you could say that I should have added half a dozen languages more to my list after four years with nothing else to do, but the culprit is .. music. I have totally reorganized my music collection, and I spent one year uploading (and partly rewriting) my old compositions. And I also travelled a bit until corona brought that to a screeching halt.

EO: Mi ankaŭ reviziis mian gvidilon pri lingva lernado dum la aktuala periodo .. kaj ĝi ankoraŭ estas tie. Sed mi efektive forgesis ke mi iam pripensis traduki la tutan ĉiomon en esperanto - sed ĝi estis ne pli ol unu ĉapitro antaŭ mi forgesis ĉion pri ĉi tiu projekto, do mi perdis la ŝancon pri lerni plej bone skribi Esperante.

SP: También seguí la transferencia de mis viejas cintas a archivos de audio digital casi día a día, mencionando nombres de compositores representativos. Y por este medio encontré algo música de órgano española muy antigua, y durante mis estudios paralelos para saber más sobre esta música también encontré una lista completa de todos los tubos de un órgano particular (aquel de la catedrál de Madrid), y, de repente, me decidí de estudiar los nombres no solo de los tubos de órganos españoles, sino también sus nombres en otros idiomas. Fue un estudio muy complicado... y aunque aprendí algunas palabras nuevas, probablemente no tendré la oportunidad de usarlas en una conversación durante mis viajes, a menos que encuentraré a un organista o a un constructor de órganos.

EN: I have also made some new text collections for intensive study, including one in Icelandic:

IC: Greinarnar koma af vefsíðu hins ágæta tímarits "Lifandi Visindi", og sú fyrsta er nokkuð ógnvænleg. Það snýst um eitthvað rangt við sólina: það vantar bletti! Síðast þegar það gerðist í mjög langan tíma fengum við litla ísöld - svo kannski er kominn tími til að við dælum enn meira CO2 út í andrúmsloftið. Aftur á móti las ég nýlega í (danska) dagblaðinu mínu að helmingur kóralla við Stóra Barrier Refið á Ástralíu hefur dofnað vegna hlýnunar jarðarin, svo það er kannski betra að við gerum það ekki...

SW: Förresten ser jag just nu "Fråga Lund", och de har just fastställt att du sannolikt får mer energi genom att äta kräftor än du förlorar genom att splittra upp dem och dra ut de inbyggda köttbitarna i klorna och svansen. Vem skulle ha trott det? Men det som rejält räddar energiräkenskapet är förmodligen de tillhörande dryckerna ...

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:57 pm

I have spent some time today studying corona data from a table on the homepage of a Danish medical magazine, Sundhedspolitisk tidsskrift, which shows the accumulated infected and dead in absolute numbers and per million plus the new positive finds from yesterday and yesterday's deaths for most of the countries on this planet (although you have to be sceptical about some of them). The two last bits of information are only given as absolute numbers which I find quite unsufficient, but by using the proportion between total infected and infect per million I can calculate yesterday's new finds and deaths per million. And the numbers are quite interesting. In the news the amount of information we get from each country depends more on whether there are correspondents in a certain country than on what actually is happening there.

So without the hidden data and a bit of calculation I wouldn't have known that Luxembourg in relative terms tops the list in the whole world for new positives yesterday with no less than 1125, which with a population slightly over half a million corresponds to 1875 new infections per million. The next two on this sad list are Czechia and Belgium with 908 and 901 respectively per million, whereas France 'just' has 466 new finds per million yesterday, Spain 285 (on the 12. place) just 285 and UK 282. It is not a surprise that Luxembourg lies so high - it's a small country where most of the population lives in the capital - if you made statistics for just Ile de France or 'greater Madrid' or whatever it is called in Spanish you would almost certainly get even more alarming numbers per million, but we are only told by the media about the new restrictions, not about the concrete numbers on any statistically useful form. So let me just give one figure from the newspaper Le Parisien: 17 % (!) of the tests performed in the Ile de France (the area around Paris) give a positive result - i.e. an infected person with or (quite ofte) without symptoms. The only numbers I have seen that were higher were from a slum area in India.

Luckily the numbers here in Denmark are so far much lower - though still quite worrying: 432 new cases yesterday, and the level has hovered around 400 to 500 daily positives for some time - with no tendency to rise exponentially. That gives a estimated 74½ new cases per million yesterday, and most of them have no symptoms or at least not something that causes much concern in the hospital world. Besides there are only around one percent positive tests (I haven't seen totally fresh data, but can't be much more than that). The big question which nobody has an answer for is why we so far haven't been struck nearly as hard as some other countries in Europe ... what do the Spaniards, Frenchmen and Brits do - or rather: what have they done during the summer which we didn't do (apart from imposing strict confinement in the spring, which ought to have the opposite effect)??? If you can't answer that question you can't tell which measures should be taken now to keep the pandemia at bay until we all can get vaccinated sometime next year.

But so far I think I'm going to stay at home in my own country.

Well, 'nuff about covid. I have of course read some more in my log, and one of the small surprises is that I actually read some French poetry in March 2016 - it doesn't happen too often.

FR: D'abord j'ai eu un coup de telephone du Tivoli de Copenhague, où l'on avait l'intention de jouer la suite Gaspard de la Nuit de Ravel à un concert, et puisque les trois mouvements sont basés sur trois poèmes en prose de l'oeuvre éponyme de monsieur Louis Bertrand, nommé Aloysius Bertrand, on voulait réciter le poèmes correspondants - mais en danois, puisque peu de danois comprends le français. Le pauvre homme mourut de tuberculose à l'áge de 41 ans après une vie généralement foutue sauf pour ce livre, que j'ai traduit en danois et publié en extrait vers la fin de mes années d'études. Et c'est pour cela qu'on m'a contacté. Je ne me souviens plus pourquoi je n'ai pu assister au concert en Copenhague - peut-être que j'ai été en voyage le jour en question.

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Mais après avoir relu Gaspard j'ai aussi relu quelques autres poèmes, y inclus les Chants de Maldoror de Isidor Ducasse, nommé Lautréamont. Or, cet oeuvre m'a pas mal deçu, et dans ce forum j'ai publié mon propos d'amélioration du livre (que je trouvait ennueyux , confus et bavard). Je cite:

Vieil océan, aux vagues de cristal, tu ressembles proportionnellement à ces marques azurées que l'on voit sur le dos meurtri des mousses; tu es un immense bleu, appliqué sur le corps de la terre: j'aime cette comparaison. (blah-blah-blah)

Vieil océan, ta forme harmonieusement sphérique, qui réjouit la face grave de la géométrie, ne me rappelle que trop les petits yeux de l'homme, pareils à ceux du sanglier pour la petitesse, et à ceux des oiseaux de nuit pour la perfection circulaire du contour.
(blah-blah-blah)

Vieil océan, tu es le symbole de l'identité: toujours égal à toi-même.
(blah-blah-blah) Tu n'es pas comme l'homme, qui s'arrête dans la rue, pour voir deux boule-dogues s'empoigner au cou, mais, qui ne s'arrête pas, quand un enterrement passe; (blah-blah-blah) Je te salue, vieil océan!

(blah-blah-blah))

Vieil océan, tes eaux sont amères. C'est exactement le même goût que le fiel que distille la critique sur les beaux-arts, sur les sciences, sur tout. Si quelqu'un a du génie, on le fait passer pour un idiot; si quelque autre est beau de corps, c'est un bossu affreux. (blah-blah-blah) Je te salue, vieil océan!

(blah-blah-blah))

Vieil océan, il n'y aurait rien d'impossible à ce que tu caches dans ton sein de futures utilités pour l'homme. Tu lui as déjà donné la baleine. (blah-blah-blah) Je te salue, vieil océan!

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J'ai décidément préféré les oeuvres d'un autre 'petit' romantique français, Gerard Labrunie nommé Gerard de Nerval, et surtout le bouquin nommé Aurélia. J'ai durant mes études fait une analyse ultra-structuraliste du poème "El Desdichado", mais la prof qui devait le recevoir l'a rejetée. Et alors j'ai fait quelque chose un peu hardie: j'ai publié l'analyse sans le moindre changement dans le magazin de l'institut - et après j'ai du dire à plusieurs de mes co-étudiants que j'étais totalement convaincu de la valeur de mon analyse (et quelques autres profs l'ont également louée), mais il vaudrait mieux ne pas le soumettre à une prof dont la horizon littéraire critique était figée dans un type d'analyse plutôt de charactère psychanalyste et pas très strictement organisée. La peinture dessous montre le prince ténébreux d'Aquitaine à la tour abolie dont la seule étoile est morte et maintenant il porte le soleil noir de la mélancolie sur son luth constellé ... eh bien, quelque chose comme ça... blah blah

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(Le ténébreux)
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4 x


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