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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:04 am
by Iversen
Answer to slowmoon:

I would formulate this slightly differently: I have found out that the number of words I don't remember after the second repetition is more or less the same as after the first repetition - but it is not the same words I don't remember. The mechanism is probably the following one: I get a boost to a number of half forgotten words with the first repetition, but then I forget some other words instead.

So the second repetition is not without value, but it is boring because it's the same words again for the third time, and as slowmoon suggests it is more fun to continue with some totally new words. In other words I keep the first repetition because I can feel that it is necessary for my longterm retention, but I dispense with the second one because I don't want to be waddling around in the same old words for a long long time. I don't have any statistics for my 'word loss' with no repetition at all. but I know from experience that it amount to some 20% after a day or two where I do my first (and mostly only) repetition. It could easily be 50% if I postponed the first control to for instance a week or a month later., but this is not something I have checked. Maybe I should - it would be fairly easy to do the experiment with just a limited range of words.

And then there is of course the time factor: a repetition is much faster than doing the wordlist the first time, so you can't just assume that skipping the repetition would leave time for doing a new main wordlist round. When I make the wordlist in the first place the words are new, and maybe I have to read a headword explanation thoroughly to choose the central semantic core, and I may even be 'distracted' by examples and morphological information. Even choosing the words takes time although it is fairly straightforward to select them when I work directly from a dictionary, but some of my wordlists are based on new words from studied texts and then I have to skip around in the dictionary. Doing a repetition is easy and fast because all the words already are listed on a piece of paper, and I have seen all of them at least once.

Apart from that: I have not even reached the end of D yet so going through the thick green Pons will take a long time - especially since I have planned to do a fair amount of local tourism here in June.

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:00 pm
by Iversen
I have been travelling around in Jutland the last couple of weeks without internet access, which explains my silence during that period. I have just cut somewhere around 700-800 photos (excluding immediate deletions) down to less than 300, and that has taken a full day. Now I have to integrate them into my html based travelogue system, and it could easily take a day more. The reason for this travel was of course that it has become more complicated to travel internationally, and in most of the world the corona pandemia still runs rampant. The pattern in Europe seems to be that the reinfection number has been punched rather brutally down to under 1 (i.e. each virus infected person spread the virus to less than one other person), but then we also see that the numbers suddenly explode in isolated areas - maybe because of one single 'superspreader', but also because some people and instituations still don't take the risk seriously - like the German slaughterhouse, where 1000 new infections among the employees kicked the reinfection number for Germany way up beyond 2 (which is roughly where we started out in February-March). And this is Europe - in most places abroad the situation is even less under control. So I decided to hire a car and drive around to some of the places in my own hood.

The problem is that people here speak Danish, and I already know that language. OK, during those two weeks the Germans were allowed to enter if they had booked accommodation for at least 6 nights, and since then they have been pouring in and along the West coast you now again hear as much German as Danish - as in normal years. But still two weeks with very little exposure and very little study. I did do the repetitions of my Polish word lists, but apart from that I also did a little bit of reading in Dutch. SF fans may know Isaac Asimov as the author of the Foundation series and inventor of three laws that should prevent evil robots from taking over the world and kill us in the process. OK, I had a translated book on the backside of a shelf which I hadn't read, so I grabbed it when I left home. Unfortunately it wasn't Sci fi, but rather some terribly slow and boring crime story, so I only read one section out of ten.

DU: Het was iets dat een groep van zelfbenoemde clubleden zat de wereld te bespreken.. Een van hen onthulde dat zijn geschriften bijna altijd werden gepubliceerd, maar hij had problemen met één enkel verhaal en hij had geen idee waarom. Hij had deze verhaal geschreven na een etentje met een uitgever en hun vrouwen, en de uitgever had het ontvangen en betaald, maar publiceerde het nu koppig niet, hoewel de auteur aanbood het bedrag terug te betalen. Tijdens het diner had de vrouw van de uitgever geklaagd over een eigenaardige zoutig smaak, en de anderen in de club dachten nu dat een verwijzing naar dit detail in het verhaal iemand ertoe zou kunnen brengen de mogelijkheid te overwegen dat de uitgever zijn vrouw heeft vergeven, vooral omdat ze kort daarna stierf en de rouwende echtgenoot spoedig trouwde met een jonge en mooie nieuwe vrouw. Het kon echter niet worden bewezen, maar de conclusie werd aangetoond dat de auteur kon aanbieden om alleen deze verwijzing naar de publicatie van het verhaal te verwijderen, en dat de uitgever het dan waarschijnlijk niet zou durven NIET te publiceren. Wat het probleem zou oplossen ...

Goed, het probleem was opgelost en iedereen was blij (behalve misschien vrouw nummer één, maar ze was tenslotte dood en kon niet protesteren). Maar ik kon het gewoon niet verdragen om meer van dezelfde bullshit te lezen.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:32 pm
by Iversen
Once again I have spent a couple of weeks traveling around in my own country (including a few days spent on a family visit), and as usual this has resulted in a mountain of photos and a severely limited study acitivity. I have done around 4500 kms on the roads, slept in 14 different locations, visited somewhere between 150 and 200 sights (depending on the criteria used) and skipped lunch at least half the days because I was busy doing tourism. And I still have a couple of weeks of travelling ahead of me, but first I'm going to take a wee break from all that holidaying.

This time I brought at least along a book which I actually enjoyed reading, the "Resum d'Història de Catalunya" from 1977 by Ferran Soldevila. I also brought along a booklet with sudokus, and for some infathomable reason it was easier for me to do presumably difficult sudokus than to study languages. But one morning I woke up from something as unusual (for me) as a dream partly in Russian.

RU: В той части сна, которую я помню, я сидел с русским текстом перед мной, который вероятно произвел в забытой части. Я сидел сейчас и писал зелеными чернилами датскую версию (а не знаю почему), а затем я придумал слово "перекать", которое я не знал - по крайней мере, не как глагол. Я пытался найти его в словаре, но не нашел (на самом деле, я не помню, были ли другие слова в словаре). В этот момент, меня прерывали некоторые люди, которые спрашивали (на датском), что я делаю, и даже в рабочее время. К счастью, один из моих бывших боссов появился и заявил, что это нужно считаться дальнейшим образованием - и тогда я проснулся (и поспешил записать сон).

My ordinary Russian-Danish dictionary doesn't contain the word "перекать", but it seems to have lived a precarious existence somewhere in the darker nooks and corners of the labyrintic Russian language, and one French source has this explanation "Перекать, т. roulement d'un endroit a un autre; перекаты грдма, les roulements du tonnerre". It is however totally implausible that I should have met it in the real word - more likely it is a deformation of the word for thunder. But rolling around is not quite unlikely in a setting where complete newbees try to sail down a ferocious whitewater stream. Or in a Danish context: the debutants ès canooing on the placid Gudenå, whose death defying activities I happened to witness from the Energy museum of Tange (somewhere in Jutland).

I'll restart my studies when I have done the registration of my photos and written the travelogue.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:43 pm
by tractor
25 pts. That wouldn’t be much in euros. :D

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:55 pm
by Iversen
Euros didn't exist when I bought it.

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:43 am
by Iversen
It took me until 2:00 yesterday morning to get my photos sorted out, edited and catalogued, and then I had to write day-to-day travelogues texts and a general comment to each two-week leg of my Danish round-trip. I'll be doing a third leg of similar length later this year, while the covid pandemy runs still its unabated course outside our borders. Maybe I can do a trip to somewhere else where the situation is under control, but probably not outside Europe before sometime next year. So once I have finished the third leg of the corona journeys I should have ample time at home to study languages.

However much of my time yesterday was eaten up by a second travel related activity. When I wrote the general description of my 'second leg' it struck me that the font I was using was ugly and hard to read so I decided to change it. I experimented with different versions of the css style commands and different fonts, but ended up with just choosing Times in a slightly larger size - almost any computer I may own later on will probably be able to honor that. But I then had to edit almost 200 individual files one by one by hand, and I ran into problems with moving images and in a few cases even missing texts - as for instance the one about my trip to India and Bhutan a few years ago, which I must have postponed writing and then just forgotten about. So most of yesterday went before I was through with that task, and it was only in the evening I had time to do a bit of studying. I have opted for one more round of my mega wordlist project where I write a few couple of columns of wordlists for some 28 or 29 languages, and I did the first four languages yesterday. Unfortunately this activity just doesn't deliver much material for captivating story telling here in my log thread, so instead I'll just write about the first travelogue from 63 years of constant travelling.

63 years when I'm 66 years old? Well, my sister is 3½ year younger than me, and while she was born I was whisked away to the home of my paternal grandmother in a faraway village. And against the meek protests of my mother I was doing the trip by train without constant supervision. Ok, somebody (maybe a railway staff member) must have helped me to get into another train midway through the trip, and a lady helped me to get off at the right station, and she also kindly told me the names of all the stations along the way. And at the target station somebody was standing to meet me, but still ... I was just 3½ years old, and there would have been an uproar and maybe a case in the social system if anybody tried to do the same thing to their kid today. Neverless I found the whole thing very funny, and I have enjoyed travelling ever since - even in my own country.

Unfortunately my first sole travel hasn't been documented in pictures, but my family took photos of me both before and after incident - including the one below from somewhere around 1957, where I'm already training to become a Llorg contributor.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:41 pm
by Iversen
EN: It took me a couple of days to finish the registration of my travel photos from the past month and writing the text to accompany them, and since then I have been to town a couple of times and fiddled with some aspects of my music collection, but I have also found time to do a fair bit of language study, and I have listen to forein TV - mostly Italian. OK, I have also spent a couple of hours listening to a lecture about the history of the Earth in English, which at this point doesn't really count as language learning - but sometimes you have to go where the content is, and that is often best found in English.

IT: Per esempio, ho guardato e (soptratutto) ascoltato l'eccellente programma "Passagio al Nord Ovest", in cui sono stati affrontati in particolare due soggetti. Il primo era la stazione centrale del Cairo, chiamata Ramses II, il secondo la pulizia personale della corte francese la Luigi XIV a Luigi XVI. Infatti sono stato alla stazione egiziana nell'anno 1992, ma da allora non sono mai più stato in. Ma ricordo l'acquisto del biglietto per Alessandria: la parte più importante era una piccola striscia di carta, ed ella mi era quasi scomparsa in una tasca - e allora loro non mi avessero permesso la entrata nel treno. Dal 1994, ci sono stati nati molti più egiziani e in molti particolare sono motto di più abitanti della città, quindi deve essere un incubo usare la Ramesse ora.

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Google maps (edited)
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Nella seconda storia, fu negato inizialmente che Luigi XIVsoltanto si facesse il bagno una volta nella sua lunga vita. Ma tuttavia è stato un evento particolarmente raro perché ogni volta i camerieri dovevano trascinare una vasca da bagno in una sala e riempirla di acqua calda - e nel frattempo forse il rè avesse abbondonato il proggetto. Infatti i dottori dall'epoca erano molto scettici sull'acqua: pensavano che l'acqua aprisse i pori della pelle a tutti i tipi di fumi nocivi (i batteri non erano ancora stati inventati). Tuttavia, erano piuttosto i dottori e i loro metodi obsoleti che dovrebbero temere la gente del seicento e settecento. Il suo pronipote e successore Luigi XIV, d'altra parte, aveva installato parecchie vasche da bagno (il numero sei fu menzionato) - ma poiché era un donnaiolo costantemente eccitato, probabilmente le usò in primo luogo colle sue concubine come stimolo erotico e poi per rilassarsi in seguito del atto. Dapprima Luigi XVI fece il bagno per pulirsi - e si accontentò di uno (non gli fu detto se Maria Antonietta avesse il suo proprio bagno, ma probabilmente ne aveva almeno uno - forse nel 'hameau'). Tuttavia, era ancora un periodo in cui le donne potevano sperimentare che i topi si trasferivano nelle loro acconciature altamente definite. E dove si usavano piùttosto unguenti che acqua con sapone.

EN: I have also added a few more languages to my wordlist project, but then I switched to a wee bit of text study. On my notestand I had left a long text about the Semitic languages before leaving on my month-long journey in early June, and yesterday I proceeded to study the passages in that text about the Hebrew and Aramaic languages. I don't study any of these languages, but at least the text itself is in Greek, and one thing in particular has puzzled me, namely the second of the two verbal endings in the following quote. It is of course also used in other places, but here it is used with a parallel partner that has the ending I would have expected:

GR: Περί το 200 π.χ. η εβραϊκή έπαψε να μιλιέται στην Παλαιστίνη, αντικαταστάθηκε από την αραμαϊκή κι χρησιμοποιείτο σαν γραπτή γλώσσα απ' τους ειδικά εκπαιδευμένους σ'αυτήν, μέχρι και τον 11ο και 12ο μ.χ.. αιώνες.

After the (year) 200 BC the Hebrew stopped being spoken in Palestine, it-was-replaced by the Aramaic and was-used as written language by the specifically therein educated until also the 11th and 12th century AD.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:04 pm
by Iversen
Here in Denmark the libraries were shut down in March, but reopened in June - with restrictions: no sitting down, no use of the computers. When I passed by the library Saturday I noticed that at least some of the comfy chairs had returned (those that could be cleaned easily), and I saw a man at a computer. There must have been a belated relaxation of the rules while I was busy travelling around, and when I asked a librarian about this I was informed that even the Monday language cafés were to be restarted. OK, today is Monday and after a museum visit and an hourlong walk I sat down and waited. Then three sisters came, but they primarily wanted to speak Danish. An elderly man was the next to arrive, and all five of us continued to speak in Danish until a young man arrived who expressed the wish to have a discussion in Italian. I couldn't resist that temptation so we formed an Italianophone group while the others continued to speak Danish. And the two of us continued to talk in Italian for at least forty minutes, which is more than I have spoken in all foreign languages put together (including English) since the country was partly shut down in March. Luckily my Italian was in fairly good shape since I have watched a fair amount of Italian TV lately and also written a few words in Italian here so the discussion went quite smoothly.

Before noon I was occupied with my music collection (jotting down missing themes by ear), but I have planned to spend this evening on hardcore studying of Slavic languages. By the way, the practicality (and reasonability) of studying half dozen Slavic languages at the same time was one of the themes I discussed with the young man, and that took us to a discussion about the ways you can exploit similarities between related languages. And when we ended the conversation he said that he now was seriously tempted to start studying Spanish, which shouldn't be particularly hard given his excellent command of the Italian language. I can't be there the next couple of times, but if/when I see him again I will of course ask whether he actually did take up Spanish.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:50 pm
by Iversen
I have spent some days at my mother's place, and the buzzword this time was 'solbær' (blackcurrants) - I plucked 5½ kilo of them and we froze most of them down for later consumption. The word 'solbær' (in Danish) is actually quite interesting since the first part, which looks deceptively like the word for 'sun', actually has nothing to do with the sun or sunshine - albeit lots of sun does makes them tastier. It refers to an Old Norse word for 'black', and also occurs in the Danish name for Turdus Merula (blackbird): solsort. The red relative of the 'solbær' is called 'ribs' (after the genus name 'ribes'), and my mother will be spending the next week plucking a couple of kilos of them- and with luck also some 'stikkelsbær' (gooseberries) and 'solstik'. The other names I have mentioned here are quite oficial, but not the last one ('solstik'), which normally refers to the medical state of sunstroke, but in our family we use it about a cross between blackcurrants and gooseberries - we simply don't know any official name for that thing..

EDIT: I just found the term 'Jostabær' for the 'solstik' in Wikipedia. But 'solstik' is much better since it combines the two relevant berry names in one smart package.

As usual language learning took second place, but in the train back home I managed first to reread the last pages of my Catalan history book (which basically end in the mid 1800s, although the illfated Ferran XIII - last pre-franquist Spanish king - is briefly mentioned), and after that I copied/studied an old text about the Himalayan yeti in Bulgarian. The article told about an examination of a number of claimed hairs, bones and poos from this elusive creature, and they were all identified by DNA analysis as coming from ordinary brown bears. However I have seen another article which claims that the bear in question isn't just an ordinary bear - according to this other article it is related to an otherwise extinct subspecies of brown bears from Siberia. In any case the otherwise attractive hypothesis of a descendant from the mysterious Gigantopithecus seems unlikely to be true.

In spite of this I can watch at least three series where funny old men with big beards scamper around in Alaskan woods by night looking for bigfeet and other legendary critters, and they always ALMOST catch them, but each and every time those animals narrowly escape. But almost every Alaskan resident has seen them... How can that be? And how can there be exactly one new critter for each episode?

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:48 pm
by Iversen
The last two messages in this thread have been totally in English. Now it's time to make amends for that fact - no more English today!

CAT: Ara mateix estic sentant escoltant una espècie de qüestionari en català, on un mexicà i un francès-canadenc tenen quatre paraules en català. El més bó d’aquest qüestionari és que cada persona parla el seu propi idioma, en lloc de que tothom s’enfonsi en la humiliació anglòfona. Però la prova també mostra que la comprensió no és completa. Sabem alguna cosa semblant a les llengües nòrdiques, on amb un cert exercici podeu aprendre a comprendre les altres llengües de manera que cadascú pugui parlar el seu propi idioma, però a la pràctica hi ha mancances en la comprensió - i després la gent parla anglès..

Abans d’aquest qüestionari, vaig escoltar el vídeo esmentat en un altre fil on les frases a descodificar eren en anglosaxó, i allá hi havia unes paraules que em van donar problemes. Però "buten" no fou un problema: "buten un binnen" és un terme be conegut del baix-alemany, que fins i tot s'utilitza com a nom d'una emissió a la televisió alemanya, però malauradament, aquesta emissió és en alta alemanya.

AF: Hierdie luisteroefeninge het my onderbreek in die bestudering van 'n versameling van tekste in Afrikaans, waarvan een die reaksies op die luister na dieselfde liedjies 300 keer bespreek het (brand die ervaring 'n grote gat in die brein of verloor jy 53 IK-punte?). 'n Ander beweer dat die breine van jazzmusici en klassieke musikante nie op dieselfde manier werk nie. Dit klink waarskynlik, maar ek wil graag 'n effens meer akkurate databasis sien.

RO: Dar acum exercițiul de ascultare catalană s-a încheiat, și ascult un alt videoclip pe canalul Ecolinguistului, iar aici limba de testare este limba română. Dar primul cuvânt, practic, prea dificil: „usturoi”. Cu toate acestea, dă naștere unei discuții despre Dracula și vampiri, ceea ce duce la „ajos” în spaniolă - și misterul este rezolvat. Dificultatea mai mare în organizarea acestor teste este probabil ca persoana care pune întrebările trebuie să fie în măsură să înțeleagă limba celorlalți participanți. Și același lucru ascultătorul ar trebui să poată ...

IT: E nel prossimo video sarà la lingua sarda che dev'essere decodificata, ma sfortunatamente non posso scrivere questo nella lingua stessa. Sarà presto rivelato se capisco la minima cosa in questa lingua.

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parola => foeddu (scusi)
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