Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:15 pm

A few days ago I mentioned that music still takes some of my time. It's not listening - I can study while I listen - but filling out holes in my theme collection that is on the agenda. My music collection is stored in files and the existing themes in graphic files, so what I have to do is to find the holes, listen to the works in question and jot themes down (with or without the help of IMSLP site), then make a pretty copy in black ink, scan it and integrate the result into the existing theme collection. And that takes time. I have finished A to G, and now I'll focus on languages for some time.

Yesterday I studied and copied texts in a number of languages. First Albanian, where I started out with an article about Indonesia which I already have worked on, but not finished. And my Albanian may be rusty, but I haven't forgotten everything. Besides there are long passages which are quite transparant. Take for instance this sentence:

Wikipedia: Indonezia është sheteti më i madh në Azinë Juglindore me sipërfaque dhe numër të popullsizë.
Hyperliteral me: Indonesia is state the-biggest in Asia Southeast with/for surface and number of population
Google Translate: L'Indonésie est le plus grand pays d'Asie du Sud-Est en superficie et en population (...)


"madh" is big, "juglindore" is South East, and "me" has many roles which you can learn later. Apart from that the sentence should be easy to decode, but only because it's full of loanwords. And that's precisely why beginners should work on non fictional texts rather than literary works. I have been toying with Albanian and of for some years, so I'm not a total novice any more, but I'm still not able to speak Albanian. On the other hand I have not felt any urgent need to learn the language fast.

The next language on my list was Greek, and my ambitions there are higher - I do think that I could start speaking it after a few days down there, and my study text about the Mediterranean Sea was not a problem. OK, I did jot down a few new words along the way, but I hardly used the translation (into French). And I can formulate Greek phrases in my head while I study (GR: και διαβάζοντας, μπορώ να διατυπώσω ελληνικές προτάσεις στο κεφάλι μου).

Then I studied a Wikipedia article in Russian about illusions in the peripheral vision, and I finished the evening with the first part of an article about the town Kosiče in Slovak. My goodnight reading was a monolingual article about the dwarf planet Sedna in Portuguese.

POR: Plutão foi, como você sabe, degradado de planeta a planeta anão há alguns anos - e o principal motivo foi que os astrônomos começaram a encontrar corpos celestes comparáveis ​​ainda mais distantes, incluindo Sedna. Sedna foi encontrada quando "apenas" estava três vezes mais longe do sol que o planeta Netuno, mas seu ponto extremo está 31 vezes mais longe do sol - e assim percorre a misteriosa nuvem van Oort que percorre todo o caminho ao redor do sol. Plutão está mais perto, mas também tem uma órbita excêntrica que cruza até a órbita de Netuno. Devido às distâncias tão grandes, pouco se sabe sobre Sedna, enquanto Plutão foi recentemente estudado minuciosamente pelo satélite "New Horisons".

Today I finished the Slovak article, but then I couldn't resist the temptation to enter all the new words in it (plus a few that deserved to be relearnt) into a wordlist.

SLK: Som navštívil Košicev súvislosti so stredným 'gathering' v Bratislave. A ako ukazuje obrázok, boli akcie na jogurty, tak som ochutnal všetky zobrazené výpredaje a zapil som ich kofolou (ktorá je miestnou odpoveďou na colu).

F5811b05_Jogurt-Kosice.jpg
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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:58 pm

Thursday I spent most of the day revisiting museums in my town. The covid numbers have soared here because of the omicron thing (which basically makes previous infections irrelevant and old vaccinations less efficient - updated versions only expected in Februay or March next year). People are being vaccinated at an impressive rate (340.942 since yesterday in a country with around 6 mio. inhabitants - and 1.882.636 revacs total so far), but it will take some time before we see the effect - especially since the use of masks is somewhat unreliable and some youngsters (and a few old ones) still think they are immune to the disease by nature. A few weeks ago the government here made the use of masks compulsory in shops and public transport, and the nightlife was closed down. But it didn't help, and as I had expected it came out yesterday with a new set of orders, which effectively means that the whole cultural sphere is closed down for one month - as if museums and libraries were the worst places to get infected. But at least we are still allowed to take walks outside, and I have spent the last days revisiting the museums and our main library while they still were open.

GE: Die unterschiedliche Strategien macht es natürlich nach Daten aus Österreich zu suchen, weil man dort wie bekanntlich alle Leute dazu gezwungen hat für 10 Tage zu Hause zu bleiben, und zoweit ich weiß gilt dies immernoch für Nicht-Geimpfte (oder Nicht-Genesene). Die Statistikseiten von ORF deuten tatsächlich daraufhin, daß diese Schockbehandlung gewirkt hat (siehe Abbildung unten). Es mag notwendig gewesen sein, weil es mehr Ungeimpfte dort gibt, aber ein Drittel der Österreicher haben inzwischen ihren Auffrischungspieks bekommen, und der Rest kann dann bis irgendwann in Jänner zu Hause bleiben (insofern sie sich an die Regeln halten) - und dann erwartet ihnen die Hölle, wenn sie sich nicht impfen lassen. Unsere Regierung hat später und mit weniger Brutalität reagiert, und dann wird sich ja zeigen, ob die viele Wiederholungsimpfungen und die Teilschließung ausreichen. Immerhin werden die Infizierten jetzt seltener seriöz krank (wegen der Impfungen) und es gibt bessere Behandlungsmöglichkeiten.

IT: Ho studiato anche la situazione in altri paese. Per Italia tg24.sky afferma per il 16/12 che "Nelle ultime 24 ore sono stati 26.109 i nuovi casi di coronavirus registrati in Italia, mentre ieri erano stati 23.195. Aumentano i tamponi effettuati: 718.281, contro i 634.638 di ieri. La percentuale di positivi considerando il totale dei tamponi - quindi molecolari più antigenici rapidi - è al 3,6% (ieri era 3,7%)." Ci sono quasi 60 millioni Italiani, il che indica che fanno una percentualmente meno tests di noi laggiù, ma la loro percentuale positiva è ancora ragionevolmente buona - un poco meno della percentuale danese, quindi la situazione laggiù questa volta non sembra peggiore della nostra. Il sistema di passaporto verde italiano verrà però cambiato, quindi non basta aver sostenuto test negativi per visitare istituzioni culturali, ristoranti o mezzi di trasporto a lunga percorrenza, e il passaporto viene sospeso in caso di test positivo. Si aveva dimenticato di integrare questo nella versione precedente, e ora l'intera macchina del governo deve tornare indietro per correggere l'errore.

ORF-covid.jpg

Nuff' about Covid, The time I have spent on museums plus the time I spent yesterday on a meeting in my travellers' club obviously couldn't be used on studying, so I'll just mention that I have worked on my Bulgarian today. I once made a text collection about Old Bulgarian (which is the Bulgarian name for Old Church Slavonic), and I returned to an old text about this language and added a bit of new stuff. I also happened to have a short text about Pannonia in that text collection, and that reminded me of the Pannonia outdoor museum which I once visited in the Bosnian Tuzla - or maybe it's Hercegocina there, I'm not sure. Anyway, I had a nice time there.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:05 am

This evening I have mostly done music themes, but I also read about a European languages day organized by an organization under the European Concil (ECML) which purports to support language learning. I did some quizzes there and looked at what the site had to say about a couple of languages, - and ...

EL: Στην αρχή δεν πίστευα πολύ στα μάτια μου, όταν διάβασα στην ελληνική σελίδα κάτι για ζάχαρη-κάτι - άλλωστε αυτή είναι μια σελίδα για την εκμάθηση γλωσσών! Αλλά μετά άλλαξα στη γαλλική έκδοση και έλαβα την επιβεβαίωση ότι η ECML σχεδίαζε να γιορτάσει το ιωβηλαίο της με έναν διαγωνισμό ψησίματος τούρτων. Αλλά όταν ξεπέρασα από το σοκ, συνειδητοποίησα ότι ήταν μια εξαιρετική ευκαιρία να δω το ίδιο μήνυμα σε πολλές διαφορετικές γλώσσες - συμπεριλαμβανομένων των περισσότερων από αυτές που γνωρίζω εγώ.

ECML_cake.jpg

By the way, I wanted to find the Greek text again to provide a link, and to avoid using Greek letters I entered "ECML gâteau" into the search box of Google - and got a lot of irrelevant rubbish, including tons of information about what other people had searched (as if it interested me to know that). I have a link to the advanced search, but try to find it on the normal search page of Google .. it is not there. And one day they will just have killed it without telling anybody. I tried Bing instead and get the French page from ECML as the first result, almost as in the good old days before Google went down the drain. Maybe the people that govern Google should look "Altamiravista" up. Long ago Altamiravista was the dominating search engine, but died because its architects couldn't resist the temptation to fill the search page with irrelevant stuff, and then a young upstart (Google) with a clean and simple user interface won the market. And now that Google has become old and stupid it makes the same error as Altavista did. The one thing that could save Google is that Bing's main page also is full of irrelevant noise, which you have to eliminate before using the site, but the search results are at least listed in a fairly clean format.

By the even-more-way: yesterday I participated in a meeting in my travel club, and for some reason I mentioned that I had learned English in 3. or 4. class (i.e. around the age of 10-11 years), and then I was tersely informed that this couldn't be true because in the 60s English was only introduced in 5. class, with German or another language following one year later. The start has later been moved down to 4. class, but I couldn't have profited from that at my age. The problem is that I know that I borrowed books in English on my mother's library card because I couldn't borrow them on my own before I was 13 years old - and that included the catalogues of The Natural History in London, which I only could get one tome at a time and had to read at the library. So now I simply don't know how and when I learnt English. I do remember some episodes from my English classes in school, but when they happened I could already read and (at least perfunctorily) speak English so maybe I just learned it by myself together with Italian and Spanish and certain aspects of Latin. This was actually more shocking than finding a bake-off competition at a site specialized in language learning.

PS: my first English word was Yabba-Dabba-Doo, as spoken by mr. Fred Flintstone - and we got television in my family while I went in the 2. class I know that because I remember that it happened because my head mistress at the time invited me home to watch Flintstones, because we didn't have TV yet and I hadn't the faintest idea about what the other kids raved so much about during the breaks.

But now I even doubt that there was such a thing as Flintstones on TV. Maybe I didn't even exist myself...

EDIT: and my memory has apparently also gone down the drain - it was Altavista and not Altamira. There is still a Altavista.com address on the internet, but it sends you to Yahoo.com, which also is a relic from the past.

SP: Sin embargo, este error me hizo leer algunos de los articulos sobre las cuevas de Altamira en varias versiones de Wikipedia, incluida la española ya que las cuevas están situadas en España. Las pinturas de esta cueva son conocidas por su esplendor de color, y el artículo español dice que ciertos académicos por este motivo se negaron a creer que fueron hechas por personas de la Edad de Piedra, pero lo fueron, y ahora se estima que fueron hechos alrededor del 13.000 a.C. El artículo también habla de un oponente particularmente obstinado llamado Cartailhac, quien después del descubrimiento de muchs cuevas con arte paleolítico tuvo que comerse sus palabras, y entonces publicó un articulo "La grotte d' Altamira. Mea culpa d'un sceptique". Con todo eso, en la imagen de Wikipedia todavía lleva puesto su sombrero.

Altamira (Deu Mu).jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:12 pm

Only a short notice - and this time i mean it! I have been visiting my mother's place since Tuesday and returned half an hour ago. During the stay I only had internet access through my oh-so-smart phone (and only used it to look up the time my bus left). So language activities were restricted to using the Assimil Indonesian (French) as goodnight reading, writing a wordlist with some 240 words from the Langenscheidt micro dictionary (Greek-German) and watching TV. But a dire disturbance threatened to spoil this hallowed Yuletide: I had a phone call Monday that one of my Mother's radiators had a leak, and that her air-to-water heater had stopped. Luckily one of her acquaintances knew a competent HVAC (Heating, ventilation, and air conditioning) specialist, who could install a new radiator before Christmas Eve. And therefore I only had to add water and let air out of the system twice every 24 hours for a few days (and after the installation: let out air from all radiators in the house and add water to replace it). If that 'HVAD' whizz ('VVS'-mand in Danish) hadn't had a suitable radiator in reserve I couldn't have left the maternal abode and return to resume my activities at home today. The second irritating disturbance was of course Christmas itself, but we stopped exchanging presents several years ago in our family, and the Christmas tree is made of metal and plastic and stays in the sitting room all year round so I just had to add some Christmas hearts and glass globes and stars to make it sufficiently Christmassy - and of course produce the annual Christmas Eve diner for three persons. The third disturbance is that the museums and libraries stay closed until at at least mid January - and the lockdown could last longer.

Kunst033.JPG

Kunst170.JPG
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:11 pm

Iversen wrote:Only a short notice - and this time i mean it! I have been visiting my mother's place since Turesday and returned half an hour ago. During the stay I only had internet access through my oh-so-smart phone
I did wonder if you'd been caught in another bookcase avalanche, so I'm glad to hear you're OK, and have not been entombed beneath a paper barrow. :-)
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Le Baron » Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:32 pm

Iversen wrote:The second irritating disturbance was of course Christmas itself...

:lol: Quite so. The only good thing is that I get a day or two off.

If I'm not mistaken Father Christmas appears to be firing a flame thrower from his sleigh. I think the lockdown might be affecting him.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:58 am

While I painted regularly many years ago, I painted one "christmas nausea painting" every year. I have never been a fan of lockdowns, and publicly imposed festivities (contrary to individually placed days off) do represent a disturbance in public life, whether you like them or not. And OK, I find some of the decorations OK, but NOT when they start putting them up from early November. So at the time I used those painting to let steam out.

Speaking of Xmas and New Year, my mother has a computer (not connected to the evil and complicated and dangerous internet) on which we look at old holiday pictures. Today's topic was my New Years holiday in Andalucia 2014-15, which of course gives me an excellent excuse for writing a wee thing in Spanish here:

SP: Es posible que Vds. esperian algo diferente, pero en realidad me gustan los fuegos artificiales, y dado que los españoles son conocidos por ser una multitud ruidosa con tendencia a vibrar al aire libre, había planeado mi viaje de manera que estuviera en Sevilla en la Plaza Nueva el 31 a la medianoche. Y el reloj se acercaba a la medianoche --10-9-8 ... Y ...

¡Y luego absolutamente NADA pasó! Los españoles se agolparon con luces parpadeantes en sus cabezas y orejas de Mickey / Minnie Mouse y saludaron y besaron a sus conocidos (y a todos otros que no lograron apartarse del escenario), pero a excepción de algunos pequeños ruidos en los suburbios, no había ningún sonido. ¡NADA! ¿Quizás las autoridades simplemente habían prohibido los pirotécnicos?

Los siguientes días los pasé en Málaga y en la Costa del Sol. El 5 de enero abordé un autobús desde Fuengirola (donde había visitado el Bioparco local) a Málaga, y por el camino pasamos por una calle estrecha con 'carrozas' - y entonces de repente recordé que los españoles toman sus "Reyes Magos" muy en serio y los festejan con procesiones y cabalgatas. Y luego vi las procesiones en Málaga en lugar del espectáculo un tanto decepcionante del Año Nuevo Sevillano.

F5120b_Cabalgatas_Reyes_Málaga.jpg


Le Baron wrote:The only good thing is that I get a day or two off

Well, maybe one day this year, but not more - it was an 'employers Christmas' where most potential days off fell on Saturday or Sunday. And New Year also will also be a weekend thing. But in my family we are all retired so it doesn't matter to us.

DA: og for dem der studerer dansk: når alle helligdagene falder i weekender der i forvejen er fridage, kalder vi det "arbejdsgiverjul" ("employer's Christmas"). Og i år var det så arbejdsgiverjul...
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Le Baron » Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:06 pm

Det er fuldstændi rigtigt, men jeg er min egen chef bortset fra 2 eller 3 dage midt på ugen. Jeg har en tendens til at udføre 'småjobs' i weekenden. Fru Baron har forbudt mig at se på arbejdsbordet. Jeg vil ikke skændes. :)
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:45 am

I haven't updated this thread for a few days, and there is of course a reason for that: music. Tuesday I finally decided to do fair copies in black ink of all the themes I have jutted down from my music collection recently, and that took from before noon till way after midnight. And then I spent Wednesday scanning those new pretty sheets and integrating the themes into my theme collection, and that took another whole day. Yesterday it was fair weather (contrary to the weather today), so I took a nice long walk, but when I then returned home I felt that the most important thing to do - apart from using the toilet - was to do some hardcore studying. So I first restudied a Polish text about the philosophical chessplayer Aron Nimzowitch, then a Slovak text about the historical center of Košice and another from the hotel where I stayed in 2018, then a Bulgarian text about buttermilk plus the final part of one about Old Bulgarian (aka Old Church Slavonic) - I have already commented on the first part here - and finally one in Serbian about to town Niš (Ниш), which I visited in 1979 and then again in 2008.

In the bilingual collection of texts that contains the Niš article I also have some articles about towns in Bosnia-Hercegovina in the local languages - including one about Tuzla in Bosnian (written in Latinitsa). However since I'm not studying Bosnian I just read it slowly through, which wasn't too hard given the obvious resemblance between Serbian and Bosnian - and in cases of doubt I had the machine translation to help me through. And after that an article about Panonia, also in Latinitsa but with surprisingly few diacritics. It was taken from the sh- wikipedia so maybe it's in the old Serbocroatian from the days of Tito, maybe in Croatian and written in Latinitsa like Bosnian and Croatian - ah dunno. I could have continued in the same extensive way with some articles in Ukrainian (which I so far don't study), whereas as for Russian I noticed that I have run out of bilingual study texts and I was tired of reading anyway so I finished my Slavic journey off by compiling a wordlist in Polish.

After that I didn't feel like switching on my computer so I went to bed and read the latest issue of the magazine "Esperanto" there. It is not the most exhilarating stuff in print - mostly dedicated to physical or virtual gatherings around the world with the obligatory group photos. The most interesting part was an article about ...

EO: ..la germana Esperanto-urbo Herzberg (aŭ Hercbergo-ĉe-Harco). Kio igis ĝin (iom) interesa estis ke rakontis konkretajn detalojn pri tio, kion oni faris en la urbo por vivi laŭ la kromnomo. Kiam (aŭ se) la mondo denove normaliĝos, mi eble pripensos viziti la Harcon, kaj tiam eble estus konvene enpaŝi la turismajn informojn kaj demandi (en Esperanto) ĉu ili havas materialon pri .. jes, divenu kion lingvo - ne la germana. Verŝajne estus iom optimisme esperi, ke ĉiuj loĝantoj lernis Esperanton, sed se ne, mi ankaŭ povas paroli iomete la germanan. En la biblioteko devus esti tuta muro de libroj en Esperanto, kaj en la Welfa kastelo oni espereble povas legi Esperantajn notojn kaj sekvi gvidajn vizitojn en la lingvo - sed ĝuste nun mi restas hejme. Mi ne eltenis testiĝi pri covid ĉiutage ...

SE: Када сам први пут посетио Ниш био је на картици интерраил и тамо сам остао само неколико сати. Други пут (в 2008 године) сам преноћио, али у хотелу на периферији (западно од железничке станице, која је такође на периферији). Увече сам посетио живописну историјску четврт, али ниједан музеј. У Тузли (којој сам се придружио Рианаир-у директно из Данске)провео сам неколико ноћи у угодном хотелу поред реке. И тако сам имао времена да видим музеј на отвореном који се зове Панонија. где су биле старе зграде и сл. Тамо је био била зграда музеја, али је био затворена - а доле у ​​граду је био још један музеј, који је такође био затворен. То вероватно није баш просперитетна област, а разлог зашто тамо уопште има авиона је вероватно тај што су у том подручју биле су данске трупе. Али имао сам неколико добрих дана у граду и наставио сам са јутарњим летом за Братиславу где сам присуствовао gathering-у.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:28 am

The last couple of days I have divided my time between theme collection (finished 'O' yesterday with signore Orologio) and snippets of language learning, but my goodnight reading is still reserved for languages - no music there! And right now I have picked a Livre de Poche named "Dictionnaire des expressions idiomatiques" from 1995. With such a book you are supposed to be scared of picking up outdated expressions, but I'm slightly outdated myself (and proud of it) so if I went to France and used an expression from the book it would just be ascribed to my age. It's like in Denmark: I say (and write) things that wouldn't be formulated like that by young people, but the youngster also say things I wouldn't, so ...

In a good ordinary dictionary you also find idiomatic expressions, but mostly slightly more mundane and unobtrusive ones - not the really colourful stuff. On the other hand you find things in slang (or argot) dictionaries that are limited to a certain period and certain population segment - but they may still be funny to read, mostly because they are downright dirty and politically incorrect. The book I'm reading now is somewhere between these extremes - more colourful than the ordinary dictionary and less éphémère than the slang dictionary (and also less raunchy). I'm seriously thinking of making some wordlists with the more concise of these expressions - I just have to make wider columns.

FR: OK, quelques examples. Le livre cite un mot clé et après ça des expressions avec ce mot. Souvent il n'y a qu'une seule, parfois il y a une colonne entière. Et bien que je connais la plupart des mots, je connais seulement une partie miniscule des expressions. Parfois je ne puis même deviner d'où vient telle ou telle formulation, mais il y a toujours une bonne explication. Comme "illico presto". J'ai googlé "illico" qui vient du Latin "in loco" - et alors tout est clair, on dit justement "ici maintenant". Un autre example du même type: "jouer Ramona". Il s'avère qu'il y avait en 1927 une chanson "Ramona"qui eut un grand succès en France (et seulement là). Selon le L'internaute c'est à elle que l'on doit l'expression se faire "chanter Ramona", qui par des associations au savon a obtenu le sens de "recevoir des reproches". D'ailleurs "passer le savon à quelqu'un" dit 'reprocher vivement quelqu'un'. En Danois on demandait antan aux enfants qui firent une gueule sale de se laver la bouche avec du savon ("vaske munden med sæbe") - mais maintenant il semble qu'on accepte que les petits pestent et jurent comme un chef de cuisine. De même "donner le branle" qui signifie 'mettre en mouvement' (le bransle étant une danse vive de la renaissance) et "faire l'olybrius' (se comporter de manière ridicule, après l'un des derniers empereurs de l'empire Romain occidental)

Mais souvent il est évident que quelqu'un a délibérément inventé une expression pour pimenter son langage, et ses compagnons l'a adoptée - comme "illustre inconnue" pour une personne tout à fait inconnue. Ce qui me rappelle les programmes de télé avec des VIP's dont on ne savait absolumment rien avant. Dans la même catégorie on trouve "l'impôt du sang" pour le service militaire obligatoire, "faire des étincelles" pour réussir spectaculairement ou .. le contraire: "éternuer dans le sac" pour 'être guillotiné". Or cette dernière expression ne saurait être très commune de nos jours, ou les guillotines ont été relégé aux musées et on fusille ou empoisonne ses adversaires. De même "payer rubis sur l'ongle" pour payer en comptant - depuis covid on évite les petits monnaies. Mais "chat fourré" aurait bien dû survivre - l'expression vise a des magistrats, et eux, ils/elles existent toujours...

Certains mots ont des rôles bien divers. Comme par example "fourchette": "Avoir un joli coup de fourchette" (avoir bon appetit), "coup de la fourchette" (traîtrise), "la fourchette du père Adam" (les cinq doigts) et "marquer à la fourchette" (marquer plus de points que l'on en a fait).

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