Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:11 pm

Today I haven't done anything new or structured.

When I say that I have done nothing new I refer to my main study activity today, which consisted in rereading the texts I have studied intensively the last couple of days in the hope that I now could read them without using the translations. The only one where I still had some lacunes was the one in Slovak about psychosis, so maybe I'll have 1) to do a wordlist, 2) go through that text once more - and THEN it'd better behave!.

When I say that I have done nothing structured it means that I have spent some time idly surfing the internet. It basically started when I watched the British "Pointless" quiz where someone mentioned lanthanum (element 57 in the periodical system) - and then I wondered why it was 'lanthanum' and not *lanthanium. I have still not seen an explanation for this (and in Greek it is actually "Λανθάνιο"), but while searching I read through the Wikipedia articles in English, Danish, Greek, Spanish and Catalan.

In this last one I also tried to look up helium, but in Catalan it is "heli" - I hadn't seen that coming so I had to use the inter-lingual reference system from English. The reason that helium is interesting right now is that I have read that the price of this weird element has exploded, which is a big problem since it is essential for hospital scanners and other applications that require very low temperatures - but if you look "helium" up in Google then all the first links reflect its use in stupid balloons, followed by its ability to make people sound like Donald Duck. The reality is that it mainly is produced alongside fossil gas in a few locations, and once it escapes into the atmosphere it soon leaves this planet for good - and it's a master of escaping! As for lanthanum, it is said not to have any positive role in biology apart from a few special bacteria, but in the English Wikipedia I read that "When injected into the brain, it acts as a painkiller", but also "The element is very poorly absorbed after oral administration and when injected its elimination is very slow." So avoid the consumation of lanthanum if you can.. :mrgreen:

Kunst072.JPG

After lanthanum I read about barium and 'rare earth' minerals in a number of languages, and from there I went on to prominent chemists from the 16. and 17. century, mostly British even though it was Swedish chemists who discovered several of them including lanthanum. I read parts of the homepage of the Royal Society which apparently still exists, but then came to think of a wealthy scientist from the 18. century who avoided all contact with other human except at the weekly dinner at the society. After some searching I found his name: Henry Cavendish (1731-1820). Of course the English Wikipedia has the longest article about this excentric person so let me quote its German counterpart:

GER: "Cavendish legte ein exzentrisches Verhalten an den Tag. Sein Abendessen bestellte er täglich durch eine Notiz, die er auf dem Flurtisch hinterlegte, und seine weiblichen Angestellten waren angewiesen, außer Sichtweite zu bleiben, wenn sie nicht ihre Entlassung riskieren wollten. Frauen und Fremden gegenüber war er äußerst schüchtern und er vermied es, mit ihnen überhaupt zu sprechen. Er war ein großgewachsener Mann mit einer schrillen, dünnen Stimme und trug als Kleidung einen abgetragenen, verblassten, violetten Samtanzug und einen Dreispitz aus dem vorherigen Jahrhundert. Er war ein wortkarger Einzelgänger. "

And then I read about the cycads ("koglepalmer" in Danish, "Kottepalmer" in Swedish), a very old group of plants which probably arose already during the Permian - and a good excuse for reading something in Swedish and Indonesian.

Kottepalm.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:04 am

It's almost a week since I last posted here - not because I haven't studied, but every time I have checked in here the last couple of days I have been lured into writing long rants in other threads - like the one about taking up old languages again after a pause (which in my case lasted 25 years) and - most notably - the thread about Ancient and Modern Greek, wherein I have written no less than four times. So this time I'll write here - about Greek...

Today I came to think about a certain Hesiod (ΗΣΙΟΔΟΣ), who lived around 700-650 BC, i.e. not long after the poems of Homer were written down - and contrary to Homer the learned ones are sure that Hesiod existed. I only knew him from references to his Theogony, where he makes an inventory of Greek myhology that differs from the mostly propagated one on some important points. However when I looked him up I saw that he also wrote a wee thing called "Works and Days", which despite being written in verse is far more practical and down-to-Earth than the twain lofty epoi of Homer and his own Theogony. On the site greek-language.gr there is a bilingual edition in Ancient Greek and something more modern - I don't know exactly what you would call the latter, Katharevousa or just quite formal Dhimotiki, but at least it only uses one accent which shows that it was written after 1982. In my printout I have opted for a triple layout with the two versions in Greek plus a Google translation into English, and even though I don't intend to study Ancient Greek it will be interesting to compare the two Greek versions - it's pretty clear that they are quite different, as can be seen from the quotes below (the beginning of the prologos):

ANCIENT: Μοῦσαι Πιερίηθεν, ἀοιδῇσι κλείουσαι,
δεῦτε, Δί᾽ ἐννέπετε, σφέτερον πατέρ᾽ ὑμνείουσαι.
ὅν τε διὰ βροτοὶ ἄνδρες ὁμῶς ἄφατοί τε φατοί τε,
ῥητοί τ᾽ ἄρρητοί τε Διὸς μεγάλοιο ἕκητι.
5 ῥέα μὲν γὰρ βριάει, ῥέα δὲ βριάοντα χαλέπτει,
ῥεῖα δ᾽ ἀρίζηλον μινύθει καὶ ἄδηλον ἀέξει,
ῥεῖα δέ τ᾽ ἰθύνει σκολιὸν καὶ ἀγήνορα κάρφει
Ζεὺς ὑψιβρεμέτης, ὃς ὑπέρτατα δώματα ναίει.
κλῦθι ἰδὼν ἀίων τε, δίκῃ δ᾽ ἴθυνε θέμιστας
τύνη·

MODERN: Μούσες από την Πιερία, που με τα άσματά σας δοξάζετε,
εμπρός, για το Δία μιλήστε, υμνήστε τον πατέρα σας.
Χάρη σ᾽ αυτόν άλλοτε άδοξοι κι άλλοτε ένδοξοι είναι οι θνητοί οι άνθρωποι,
άλλοτε γνωστοί και άλλοτε άγνωστοι, με τη θέληση του Δία του μεγάλου.
5 Γιατί εύκολα αυτός δίνει τη δύναμη, μα κι εύκολα τον ισχυρό καταστρέφει,
εύκολα τον περιφανή μειώνει και υψώνει τον αφανή,
εύκολα διορθώνει το άδικο και ταπεινώνει τον υπερόπτη,
ο Δίας που από ψηλά βροντά και κατοικεί στα υπέρτατα δώματα.
Δώσε προσοχή, κοίτα και άκου, και στο δίκαιο τις κρίσεις οδήγησε συ, Δία.

Muses from Pieria, who glorify you with their songs, forward, speak of Jupiter, praise your father. Thanks to him, mortals are sometimes ignorant and sometimes glorious, sometimes known and sometimes unknown, with the will of Zeus the Great. 5 Because he easily gives the power, but also easily destroys the strong, easily lowers the proud and raises the invisible, easily corrects the unjust and humiliates the arrogant, Zeus who thunders from above and lives on the highest roofs. Pay attention, look and listen, and lead the judgments to the law, (to) Zeus.

GR: Στην ενότητα που έχω εκτυπώσει το κείμενο συνεχίζεται με συζητήσεις για καυγάδες, που κατηγορούνται στη θεά Έριδα ("Έρις" στην ονομαστική πτώση), μια κόρη της Νύχτας και του Χρόνου - οι παλιοί Έλληνες έχουν θεούς σχεδόν για όλα, όχι μόνο τους δώδεκα ολύμπιους θεούς. Είναι κάπως περίεργο το γεγονός ότι η μετάφραση στα νέα ελληνικά γεμίζει πολύ περισσότερα από το πρωτότυπο κείμενο, και αντικατοπτρίζει ότι τα κείμενα είναι παράλληλα αλλά κατασκευασμένα διαφορετικά στο συντακτικό επίπεδο. Ἔχει και κάτι άλλο που με εκπλήσσει, αλλά ίσως κάποιοι από τους ειδικούς μας στα αρχαία ελληνικά έχουν μια εξήγηση: τα λεγόμενα ποντίκια προέρχονται από το Πιέρια. Σύμφωνα με την ελληνική Βικιπαίδεια, τοα Πιέρια όρη είναι ορεινός όγκος βορειοδυτικά του Ολύμπου. Λίγο πιο κάτω όμως στο κείμενο ο συγγραφέας προφανώς απευθύνεται στους Πέρσες – που εκείνη την εποχή δεν είχαν ακόμη κατακτήσει τις ελληνικές κτήσεις στην Ιωνία ("ἐγὼ δέ κε Πέρσῃ ἐτήτυμα μυθησαίμην"). Οι κάτοικοι των πλαγιών του Ολύμπου ονομάζονταν και Πέρσες (ή Πέρσῃ);
Δεν μπορώ να αποκλείσω ότι κάποια στιγμή θα καθίσω σε μια άνετη πολυθρόνα και θα διαβάσω ολόκληρο το o Έργα και Ημέραι, αλλά δεν θα είναι σήμερα.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:17 pm

Once again I have visited my mother, and during this visit I had a language related dream. When I'm spending the nights at her place I sleep on a sofa in the living room (dressed up as a bed with roller mattress, duvet and a couple of pillows so you don't have to feel sorry for me). This morning she passed through through the room at 3:45, and I woke abruptly up from a dream which I managed not only to think through, but also jot down on a slip of paper. Dreams that aren't recapitulated just after awakening are almost ever lost for good, and those that aren't also written down will generally be forgotten during the day - a lot of good entertainment goes down the drain because we are constructed that way! But this time things just functioned as they should.

The first thing I remember was that I stood on some kind of triangular dais in the middle of an irregular square, close to a raised flower bed. There were curved rails for a tram across part of 'my' dais, and a modern tram just tried in vain to pass by without hitting the flower bed (which had on meter high sides of grey concrete) - I saw it get as close a an inch before it stopped. A young man and a young lady stood behind me, and they said something to me in Russian. I routinely said "я не говорю по-русски" (I don't speak Russian), but then realised that they had said something about the tram. And then I tried to answer them in Russian. I formulated a sentence like this "если (только) был старый русский трамвай, он мог пройти мимо". The problem was that I wanted to use the word "только" (only), but I simply couldn't recall that word - another word "лишь" sort of blocked me from remembering "только" (it also means 'only'), so I never actually got around to say the sentence to the couple. Instead I noticed that an old, rusty and fairly slender трамвай (tram) now had lined up behind the new shining tram, waiting for it to pass - which it couldn't. And then I turned to the couple and said "вот старый трамвай" (there is (an or the) old tram).

I don't remember what happened after that, but I now knew I was somewhere in Ukraine. I crawled through a low passage into a semi-basement with several rooms with low windows near the ceiling - and these windows were blinded to avoid foreigners looking down into the rooms. There was some modern halfway electronic music in the almost empty rooms, as if some people were jamming together in an adjoining room. I joined two men sitting at a table, and one of them said to me in English "you don't like the music, right?". I realized that I couldn't formulate a sentence in Ukrainian on the fly so I answered in English (I don't remember the exact formulation, but the simple version of it was "no"). A short while later I left the building through an ordinary door and came up on a dark street. I walked along it and suddenly realised that I was carrying a leather briefcase, and I thought "where did that thing come from!?". I didn't feel safe - Russian bombs were one possibility, marauding soldiers another, and then I finally remembed not only the word "только", but also is Ukrainian counterpart "тільки"" - and in that precise moment my mother inadvertently woke me up.

Apart from that I did watch some TV in a few languages, but I didn't study at all. The reason could be that I had worked hard in the garden for two days in a row, digging more than a cubic metre of dandelions up with a gardening trowel and planting no less than five rhododendrons, hyacinths, dahlias, sunflowers and sundry other flowers, and on top of that I had cooked almost two kilos of marmalade and 'rødgrød' based on berries from my mother's freezer - we have to make space for the upcoming harvest, and it is still half full. So I didn't really feel like working hard in the evenings. I did however do some language training while driwing from home down to her and back. It took some time before I got the idea, but now I try only to think in foreign languages while driving - on the trip home it was Spanish and Italian. It would be idiotic not to use all that time for something sensible..

Kunst044.JPG


And now it's time for some real studying...
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Le Baron » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:05 pm

This killed me:
Iversen wrote:I realized that I couldn't formulate a sentence in Ukrainian on the fly so I answered in English (I don't remember the exact formulation, but the simple version of it was "no").

:lol:
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Iversen
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:34 pm

FR: J'aimerais présenter mes condoléances les plus ressenties au feu Baron...
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Le Baron » Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:07 pm

T'inquiète pas! Ce n'était qu'une mort temporaire. Après une bière je me suis très vite remis de cette petite entrave.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:48 pm

I watched a documentary about dreams recently where they speculated that one explanation might be the Brain playing out various possible outcomes of events you might encouter in the future, so that you're better prepared for them.

You seem to be be readying yourself for a spy-sabateur role. Who are you Iverson????
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun May 01, 2022 9:12 am

@ Le Baron: [LA] laetus sum Baronum apud nobis semper esse

@ Daveagain:
Egomet sum. [EN] If I really had wanted to become a professional spy then I should probably not have used my real name and real photo of myself here. But the reference to a video about dreams opens up a window for me to scribble something about dreams in general in a number of languages, and the first and fundamental tenet of my thoughts about the subject is that dreams don't tell us anything about anything, and it's a waste of time trying to analyze them.

It's not exactly clear why we have to expose ourself to dangers by sleeping, but one effect of sleep is to have our brain cells physically washed in brain fluid, another is that our memories get a chance to be reorganized (read: pruned) without constant interference from the outside world. The real test of the usefulness of sleep is that we get bonkers if we are prevented from sleeping just for a few days in a row, but that still doesn't indicate that the content of dreams is meaningful, let alone informative.

My guess is that we dream because the brain otherwise would get bored and our braincells might start to shut down and possibly die. The automatic mechanism that tries to prevent us from remembering our dreams would not be there if remembering and analysing them presented any substantial survival benefit to us. But from the relatively few dreams I do catch and remember I feel a real loss at all the entertainment value that is dreamt up every night, just to be lost the next morning because my first thought is to get up and start doing things.

Kunst081.JPG

SCO: Auld lang syne (upon the echties ware ah wis unemployed) ah did actually keep a dream diary. Ye may can have haurd aboot 'lucid dreams', i.e. dream whare ye sense that ye are dreamin and mebbe can use this ken tae influence the dream surroondins thaimsels (or mebbes nae). Tae speir oot this phaenomenon ah decided tae do a dream diray, but ah bedeen realeesed that a couldnae read me awn awful scribblins fra the time juist efter my waukenin so ah set up a tape recorder an besteid gabbed me dream reports tae to the mike, tae be written oot later in the day. Ah didnae work in those dayes so ah had plenty time tae sleep, and ah didnae have to get up tae go to aucht at the meenit. Ah read aw the beuks and articles ah coud lay me hand on (van Eeden, Celia Green, LaBerge, Tholey..), and ah even wrote me own beuk of awmaist 130 pages, but it has nivermas got published so ye cannae find it and read it.

Platt: Aver ball achter höff ik ein Arbeit kriegt un mit dem morgenliche Dröömfaten höff ik moet ophöören. Wiel ik mien Draumdaeböök höff föhrt, höff ik honderte vun Drööms opschnappt, männigmal mehr dan een vun desülvige Nacht, un dat verbasende is, wie wenig sie mit die Geschehnisse des Tages to doen haarn. In mien Drööms war ik ehr Turist als historiker oder Profeet.

SW: Faktum är att det inte alls är lätt att hitta samlingar av oredigerade drömrapporter, bara kommentarer och mestadels irrelevanta tolkningar från människor med någon smart idé om drömmar som plockar ut individuella detaljer som passar in i deras modeller. Därför vet jag inte riktigt om mina drömscenarier är annorlunda, men jag kan se några trender. Den första är att jag vanligtvis utforskar någonstans, och jag har väldigt ofta tillgång till att se en översikt av den i Google Earth-format eller som en gammaldags karta - och ibland känner jag igen platsen från tidigare drömmar, och jag kan välja att återbesöka platser på kartan (vilket tyder på en allmän benägenhet till drömma klara drömmar). Ibland kommunicerar jag inte alls med andra drömfigurer, men om det händer brukar jag prata danska såvida min landkarta inte säger att jag befinner mig på en viss plats utomlands - men det gör hon faktiskt ganska ofta..

AF: In meldings van helder drome ('lucid dreams') word gereeld sekere faktore gelys wat vir die slapende persoon kan sê dit is 'n droom – soos dat jy kan lees of dat jy horlosie nie normaal werk nie, of dat jy die omgewing anders as gewoonlik voel (vandaar die toets van hulself knypen in die arm). Maar om die waarheid te sê, 'n mens het oor die algemeen nogal baie bewegingsvryheid in drome, so wat ontbreek is eintlik veral die vermoë om te wonder.

DU: Ik vraag me soms af hoeveel er wordt gepraat over nachtmerries. Maar men moet zich eerst realiseren dat er twee totaal verschillende soorten nachtmerries zijn. In de diepe slaap komen soms episodes van pure angst voor, het zogenaamde pavor nocturnus, waarmee meestals geen droominhoud verbonden is. De oorzaak is waarschijnlijk eerder fysiologisch dan psychologisch. Veelvoorkomende nachtmerries komen voor in de droomstaat (REM), en deze zouden vermeden moeten worden als de dromer meer 'lucide' was. Als je in feite de basishouding aanhoudt dat je onaangename figuren in de dromen kunt doden zonder vergelding, zou dat de dromen zeker comfortabeler maken.

Kunst017 - Gaspard de la Nuit.JPG

IC: Því miður eru neikvæð tengsl milli harkalegra meðvitaðra aðgerða í draumum og skyndilegrar vakningar. Ef þér finnst þú nógu öflugur til að til dæmis hefja flug eða fjarlægja heilan vegg í hús, ertu líklega líka svo 'vakandi' í heilanum að þú ert nú þegar nálægt því að vera vakandi.

GER: Es gibt einen wesentlichen Unterschied zwischen REM-Schlaf und Wachzustand: Im Schlafe ist der Körper von der Außenwelt abgekoppelt – der Träumer sieht und hört sein Schlafzimmer nicht, und abgesehen von den Augenmuskeln kann man sich nicht bewegen. Man bewegt sich stattdessen in einer fiktiven Welt, die mit den gleichen Sinnesarealen im Gehirn produziert wird, die normalerweise äußere Sinneseindrücke verarbeiten (es gibt jedoch einen dünnen Faden zurück in die reale Welt - sonst könnte man nicht erwacht werden. Es war z.B. das leise Geräusch meiner Mutter, das mich vom oben erwähnten ukrainischen Traum geweckt hat. Aber mitunter landet jemand in einem Zwischenzustand, in dem der Körper noch gelähmt ist, wobei man aber die Außenwelt ohne Filter sieht und spürt. Dies kann sicher beängstigend sein, aber ich habe es glücklicherweise nur einmal erlebt (in einem Stuhl sitzend), und ich wußte zum Glück, daß der Zustand abklingen würde. Es gibt jedoch eine Krankheit ALS, Amyotrophe Lateralsklerose, wo er dauerhaft ist, was fürchterlich sein muß. Im Gegensatz dazu treten Schlafwanderungen normalerweise in den tiefen Schlafzuständen auf.

DA: Og så får I ikke mere for den femogtyveøre, som vi plejer at sige på dansk - selv om den gamle 25-øres mønt faktisk blev afskaffet allerede i 2008. Vi bruger ikke euro i Danmark.

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Le Baron
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Le Baron » Sun May 01, 2022 2:54 pm

Ich kenne dieses Worte nicht: 'Sinnesarealen'. Was bedeutet das?
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sun May 01, 2022 3:20 pm

GER: Ich habe das Wort nicht überprüft, bevor ich es geschrieben habe, aber es gibt tatsächlich einige andere, die es auch verwendet haben, z.B hier (Spektrum):

Bereits in den primären Sinnesarealen vereinigen sich sensorische mit Bewegungsreizen. Bisher hatte man angenommen, diese Vermischung finde erst auf höheren Verarbeitungsstufen statt.

Das Wort bezieht sich auf die Teile des Gehirns, die Sinneseindrücke verarbeiten und die dabei helfen aus alte Erinnerungen künstliche Welten zu konstruieren, während wir träumen. Natürlich werden die gleichen Gehirnzentren auch aktiv, wenn wir uns etwas vorstellen, es sei Bilder, Geräusche (einschließlich menschliche Sprache) oder Gerüche oder was auch immer.

Ich hätte übrigens besser "Schlafwandeln" als "Schlafwanderungen" benutzen sollen - dies ist als echten Sprachfehler einzustufen!

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