Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

[Iversen]

(...) some of the TV programs. Let's wait until tomorrow with the details ...

OK, I may be one day late, but there is one program I really want to mention, namely the one about Swedish dialects on Swedish television (SVT).

SW: Serien 'Svenska dialektmysterier' med Fredrik Lindström nådde på helgen 'Gnällbältet', som bland annat inkluderar Eskilstuna och Örebro. De andra svenskarna tycker uppenbarligen att människor härifrån alltid låter som de är ledsna og motsträviga, och Lindström satte sig för att klargöra två saker: var går gränsen och varför tycker de andra svenskarna illa om de stackars invånare i detta område? Han fann att de bodde mellan folk i Götaland vars språkmelodi stiger på grund av grannskapet med norrmännen och stockholmare som alltid är upptagna och inte har tid för långa vokaler. I Gnällbältet är det lugnare och det finns tid för långa vokaler. Men när dessa blev diftongerade hängde änden neråt, och därför hörs dialekten av andra som sur og ledsen. Lindström hittade också en gräns som på ett ställe gick genom en kafeteria och på ett annat mellan två små landsbygder - och folk i dessa bryr sig inte mycket om grannarne.

Dessutom löste sändningen även ett annat problem för meg:

FR: Pendant mes études à l'Institut des langues Romanes en Århus pendant les années soixante dix j'ai fait une traduction complète de 'Gaspard de la Nuit' par Aloysius Bertrand comme partie de mon examen. Selon les règles en vigueur, il fallait suivre un certain nombre des cours proposés par les profs, mais on pouvait aussi écrire une oeuvre de quelque sorte au lieu d'un certain nombre de cours. Et moi, j'ai évidemment utilisé cette option tant que possible. Après que mon manuscript a été accepté, j'ai eu l'idée de publier une partie du recueil, et ceci a eu lieu en 1980.

Pourquoi pas tout le livre? Eh bien, "Gaspard de la Nuit" est une collection de poèmes en prose avec une longue introduction, où le raconteur explique comment il a encontré un personnage mystique (peut-être le Diable lui-même, légèrement déguisé) dans un parc parisien, et cette personne lui a confié un manuscrit divisé en six 'livres' plus une douzaine de pièces détachées - peut-être des poèmes ecrits après le livre proprement dit (que l'auteur lui-même n'a pas réussi a faire publier avant sa mort prématurée). Le problème c'est que les premières trois, peut-être quatre livres sont excellents, mais après ça les poèmes deviennent de plus en plus sentimentales jusqu'à devenir franchement insupportables. Dans la version danoise nous avons donc coupé ces dernières livres plus l'introduction (qui était lisible mais trop longue) et gardé ce qui est vraiment bon.

Et la connection aux dialectes suédois, vous dites? Eh bien, dans le poème "Le Fou" j'ai traduit la phrase "Comme ricana le fou qui vague, chaque nuit, par la cité déserte, un œil à la lune et l’autre — crevé !" ainsi: "Hvor den gale dog gnældrede, som hver nat støver rundt i den øde by med ét øje hæftet på månen og det andet - flået ud!" Quand j'ai écrit ceci je ne savait pas d'où je connaissais le mot "gnældre" - j'ai soupçonnais même que je l'avais inventé moi-même, mais maintenant que les habitants de la region suédoise du "Gnällbältet" m'ont rappellé sa forme suédoise j'ai pu certifier qu'il existait avant moi - Google a trouvé une cinquantaine d'exemples dans la littérature danoise.

En effet, il semble que le mot suédois "gnälla" ne signifie pas exactement la même chose que 'ricaner' en français, mais à en juger par les exemples danois les exemples danois de "gnældre" sont heureusement assez proches. Le verbe "at hånle" (prétérite "hånlo") serait peut-être plus précis, mais fonctionnerait moins bien dans le contexte du poème.

Les détails sur ma peinture ci-dessus sont basés sur le livre de monsieur Bertrand, et d'ailleurs Maurice Ravel a aussi écrit une fameuse oeuvre de piano sur trois des poèmes du livre.

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[Iversen]

I spent several hours yesterday on Albanian. First I found some more texts at the site Alien.al, then I copied/studied one of them (the one about lucid dreams), and finally I began making wordlists - but since I also have piles of new words from the texts about dark energy and other astronomical matters I didn't even reach the first words from the new texts yesterday. I'll do something about that later today, but I have also a few other languages to keep happy so...

One of these is Irish. And here I wanted to find a text about the same topic, namely lucid dreams, but that search didn't go as smoothly as expected. My Collins Pocket dictionary skipped "lucid", the Irish Wikipedia didn't have an article corresponding to the English one and .. well, Google translate at least gave me "aisling bréagach", but when you turn the direction you get 'false dream', which is as false as can be and makes you deeply suspicious about the original expression. With Google search I found a translation at Wordhippo.com: "aisling gleoite", and a word for 'lucid dreaming': "brionglóidteach". But I'm an inveterate sceptic so I let Google search the words "aisling gleoite", and it came up with just four hits: the one from the hippo, something about tattoos, one hit in Chinese and one that referred to an XML file about gaming. I have rarely seen poor Google so helpless. In the end I just made a print of an article about Asperger and another about Alzheimer - if those names occur, then you can be relatively certain that the article is about the topic you are looking for.

But today I decided to do a search based on "aisling bréagach" in the hope that it also would yield some relevant articles, and lo and behold, the very first article actually was an article about five ways to induce lucid dreaming. I don't need the techniques personally, but I need the vocabulary so that was fine with me. The site I found it on (ga.suenee.cz) was unknown to me, but if a Czech page has information in Irish then it might be interesting for me later.

Btw. I have changed my use of wordlists from texts slightly: when I did the first words on my Albanian wordlists I did the normal thing, which is to enter the words from the right column on the sheet where I have copied the text. But the clarity of my writing is nothing to write home about so I tried to look at the original text instead (the one about dark energy), and I found that this functioned quite well. I generally remembered the words I had notated in the first place, and if not then then I had both the translation and my own notes to confer with (plus the dictionary, of course). So I'll probably do that also when I come to the text I worked with yesterday.

AL: Unë nuk kam jo ende punuar me të gjithë artikullin, vetëm me gjysmën e parë, dhe gjysma e parë tregon për ëndrrat në përgjithësi. Një njeri i fjetur ka faza te gjumit, dhe gjate sjumit REM truri punon shumë vështirë. Qendrat e trurit që zakonisht interpretojnë përshtypjet sensoriale ndjehen të mërzitur dhe e gjejnë veten. Nëse fle, por duhet të jeni zgjuar, truri mund të vërejë se tregimet janë bërë në shtëpi, dhe pastaj ju keni një ëndërr të ndritshme - dhe pastaj ju keni një ëndërr të kulluar.

BA I: Kemudian saya ingat dari buku tentang mimpi jelas bahwa adalah sekelompok orang di Malaysia, sang senoi, tampaknya digunakan mimpi kemudian secara aktif - jadi ini tentu saja harus ditulis dalam bahasa melayu, tetapi saya tidak ini mempelajarinya (belum). Saya menemukan sebuah teks (diulang di banyak tempat) bahwa klaim itu berasal dari Kilton Stewart pada awal 1950-an, dan bahwa peneliti di Institut Esalen di Amerika Serikat menyebarkannya klaim ... tetapi juga bahwa para antrologis kemudian tidak dapat mengkonfirmasi informasi tersebut. Mungkin senoi-senoi telah berhenti bermimpi, dan sekarang mereka bermimpi mendapatkan sepeda motor dan rumah baru. Selain itu, saya ingin menyebutkan bahwa saya menemukan blogspot panjang tentang mimpi, yang juga menyebutkan mimpi yang jelas di sini. Dan saya telah mencetak sebagian untuk tujuan belajar.

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[Iversen]

I have spent some time today doing text-based wordlist based on the system I wrote about above - i.e. by looking into the original Albanian text rather than into my handwritten notes, and I must say that it functions quite well, and I think I'll be using this system from now on. The routine will then be the following:

1) Find a suitable text on the internet. A few pages is more than enough, since it takes time to copy it by hand (cfr item 6 below)
2) Put the text into the left column in a two-column table in Word or some similar program
3) Let google translate do its thing- and cross fingers that it doesn't make too many ridiculous errors
4) Put the result in the right column and move the middle line left or right to make the two versions equally long

And already here I need to mention an alternative, namely to find a text with a good and loyal human-made translation somewhere. So first question here: have I left poor Harry Potter sitting in the dining hall? The answer is yes, not because of the Irish text itself or the English version, but because it it a cumbersome process to keep two books open and visible near me at the same time. I normally use a notestand for my printed texts, but if I put a book there it will close. I have tried to keep books open with clothes pegs, but it is not ideal - so Harry will have to wait in the starlit hall until I can sit down and finish the Irish translation as extensive reading with minimal use of a dictionary.

5) Grab a sheet of paper and fold it. A folded sheet is much easier to handle, and it looks less intimidating. Mark a column with a width of some 5 cm to the right.
5) Copy the text by hand - not for the sake of having a nice copy, but to force you to slow down and look at each and every word and construction and decide whether it is known to you or not, and to allow you time to translate the text in your head.
6) New words go into the right column. If you need to add comments or hyperliteral translations of difficult passages then do it in some other color at the relevant point in the copied text, not as a footnote (always keep ballpoint pens in at least three colours within reach).

This is what I always have done. A day later or so I would then make a three-column wordlist with the words in the right column, and I would check the words in dictionary at this stage if needed. But from now one I am going to ...

7) .. put the bilingual printout plus my handwritten copy side by side on my notestand and construct the wordlist by looking through the original text, and only confer with the handwritten version if I don't remember the meaning of something. Or I might then consult a dictionary instead (takes longer, but the outcome is more authoritative).
8) I have written a lot about my wordlist system elsewhere, but one of the main ideas is that you work with 5-7 words and their translations instead of just memorizing one word with its translation. Another key point is that you write all the new words down without their translations in the leftmost column
9) ... and then you add the corresponding translations in column 2 when and only when you are sure that you can provide them all in one fell swoop without peeking.

So now you have 5-7 new words in the first colum and their translations in no. 2, and it is time for a comment. Based on my limited experience it is not a problem to identify the problematic words and not to hard either to remember their meanings - or if it is, then you can use the translation or your notes or a dictionary for reference. There is however one little irksome rule that needs to be observed: even if you look a word up you are not supposed to write ANYTHING in column 2 before you can write all 5-7 translations in one go. This will force you to at least TRY to remember the meaning of the original word instead of just jotting its translation down immediately after you have seen the solution somewhere. This is also the reason why you should work with 5-7 words as a group instead of taking them one by one.

But there is one advantage more by using the original text, namely that you will be looking through it a second time - and this time as a text which you should be able to understand more or less effortlessly just as you are expected to be able to do much later in your learning process. And being able to understand anything in a new language is a nice feeling.

10) now look at the words and their translations. When you can remember all the original new words then cover the first column and write the words in the third column .. as ever.

The repetition or repetitions should still be done from the wordlist, but I think it will be a good idea to keep the original text within sight. Getting the context for some of the words will of course make it easier to get a high recall percentage, but since you get it by reading a text in your target language it can't be called cheating. After all this is not an exam, but a way of getting you through a number of repetitions in an orderly fasthion.

And now for something slightly different (although still at the nerdish end of the spectrum).

EO: Mi iris al kunveno en mia vojaĝkububo vendrede vespere, kaj la gastparolanto estis viro kiu vizitis ĉiujn landojn de la mondo. Bone, estas multaj aliaj gehomoj kiuj ankaŭ faris tion, sed ĉi tiu hipervojaĝantemulo ankaŭ faris hejmpaĝon kie li iras unu paŝon pli. En mia klubo ni havas 'teritoriojn', sed ili nur pensas kiel suplemento al la 192 landoj de UN. La sistemo ĉe la hejmpaĝo NomadMania.com estas ke la mondo dividiĝis en 1281 regionojn, bazitajn sur miksaĵo de politikaj kaj geografiaj kaj turismaj kriterioj. Se vi nur konsideras landojn, mi 'ricevos' la tutan Rusujon kun vizitoj nur in Moskvo kaj SanktPeterborgo, sed kun la fajndividita strukturo oni povas vidi ke mi ne metis mian piedojn oriente de Vladimiro, kaj ĉi tiu estas multe pli justa. Aliflanke, mi pasigis plurajn horojn dimanĉo pleniginta la formojn, kaj la tuta retejo estas en la angla lingvo.

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[drmweaver2]

... it it a cumbersome process to keep two books open and visible near me at the same time. I normally use a notestand for my printed texts, but if I put a book there it will close. I have tried to keep books open with clothes pegs, but it is not ideal...

While I was in college, decades ago, I found that using a note stand/book stand and LARGE rubber bands worked fairly well for keeping the pages open appropriately. The one drawback was I sometimes had to "break the book's spine" to keep it open and flat.

Another method I sometimes used is using HUGE paperclips - something on the order of 2.5-3" long or longer and an inch wide. Very, very occasionally, I've used extra-long/wide clothespins and I recently tried using wide, plastice spring clips for keeping potato chip bags closed and fresh(unfortunately, the spring's are not usually very strong).

I've found the paper clips in novelty shops and online(Amazon/eBay->search for "novelty" or "4 inch" paper clips) and the bag clips in grocery stores.

Food for thought... oh wait. The food's the chips!

[Iversen]

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Unfortunately I don't think rubber bands could be used on my note stand. At last not in its current state ...

[Fasulye]

Hej Iversen,

DK: Jeg har ikke glemt mit dansk! Sjaeldent poster jeg noget i den gamle sprogforum, her naesten aldrig. En gang om ugen skyper jeg med Lasse som taler 4 fire sprog: dansk, norsk, tysk og engelsk. Men vi bruger bare dansk og tysk og laeser regelmessigt arstonomiartikler i norsk, dansk og tysk. Den sidste gik over en rumraket som var skjudd op i Nord Norge af Norske rumfartsvidenskapper.

Du ved at her er det vanskeligt for mig at inlogge, derfor har jeg ikke sa meget lust til at deltage.

Venlig hilsen,

Fasulye

[drmweaver2]

Unfortunately I don't think rubber bands could be used on my note stand. At last not in its current state ...

You never know...30" rubber bands right here:https://bit.ly/2pIGo71 IF those are too long, here's some 24" long ones https://bit.ly/2C3uZG2 or, you could "knot them" to shorten them.

I used to give presentations outside in occasionally windy conditions and found that the key with using rubber bands to hold paper(s) down and/or books open was getting the length right - that's what created the correct "tension" so that pages could be turned without much trouble.

For me, it's mostly a question of thinking outside the box and looking around.

[Iversen]

Long time no see, Fasulye..

DA: Det er godt nok lidt besværligt at man sommetider skal gentage sit login og besvare et spørgsmål, men når man endelig er inde, virker tingene normalt - og man kan endda inkludere billeder i sine meddelelser, hvilket er herligt. Og hvad er alternativet? For et par dage siden forsøgte jeg at logge in på HTLAL for at checke nytilmeldinger (som vist er det mest aktive der), men det gik så langsomt at jeg opgav. LLORG når nok aldrig op på det antal daglige besøgende som HTLAL havde i storhedstiden, men når jeg ikke har skrevet i min log et par dage, daler den til side 3 eller 4 på aktualitetslisten - så noget sker der da...

Hvordan går det i øvrigt med skakken?

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EN: As for the long rubber bands of dreamweawer2: I would have to remove all the paper from my notestand before that would work, but I acknowledge that rubberbands might function better than clothes pins on an empty notestand.

Right now the content of my notestand is as follows: a set of printouts in Slovak (with a partial handwritten textcopy and a wordlist), the Albanian text set (with attachments) about lucid dreams, the two printout sets in Irish about dreams and Alzheimer which I have mentioned earlier, a textset about dark energy in Bahasa Indonesia (soon to be removed because I have finished it), another in the same language about the Senoi tribe, a handwritten page left over from my work with a Russian travelogue describing a trip to Portugal, some articles about Bulgarian archeology in Bulgarian, a Polish textset about genetic haplogroups and Protoprotoeuropean invasions, a text set about dark energy and the cosmological constant in Greek, more physics and cosmology in Romanian, a fairly long article in Russian about the Triassic period and the animals who lived back then, the Slovak texts about blacksmith plovers in Kosice Zoo and other touristic topics from that area and the textset that contains the article about the national parks of Serbia.

Maybe I have too much rubbish on my note stand, but the printout sets I mentioned are all texts that I have used for intensive study within the last week or so.

SLK: Dnes som študoval text z webovej stránky hotela, v ktorom som zostal v Žiline,a nasledujúci text v zbierke popisuje Skanzen v meste Martin v blízkosti Žiliny - a je pre obyvateľov Štokholmu potešením, že názov ich skanzenu schopný inšpirovať kolagén na Slovensku.
Navštívil som ho a zúčastňoval som sa na slovensko-jazykovom prehliadke - ale nechápal som, čo povedala dáma.

Pokaždé, keď pracujem so slovanským jazykom, zaujímalo by ma, že tvorcovia ich abecedy boli pre diakritické znaky tak ploché (a to prinieslo Zamenhof do esperanta). Avšak to, čo ma najviac znepokojuje, nie je diakritické znamienko, ale že digraph "ch" nestoja hneď po "c" v mojom slovenskom slovníku.

AL: Gjuha shqipe gjithashtu ka shumë digraph që qëndrojnë të pavarur në fjalorë. Por problemi më i madh kohët e fundit ka qenë që tekstet e mia nga webfaqen okult 'harrojnë' të shkruajnë "ë" dhe të shkruajnë "e" - dhe prandaj unë dukem gabim në fjalor.

PO: Moim największym problemem z kopiowaniem polskiego tekstu jest to, że muszę zmienić mój styl pisma ręcznego. Jeśli piszę tak jak zwykle, łączę "t" i gruby "ł". Zwykle kojarzę kropkę nad "i" z otaczającymi literami, ale nie jest dobra idea po polsku.

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RU: И теперь пришло время сказать спокойной ночи. Моя ночная книга: русское руководство к Дворцу Дожей. Он скучный, почти снотворное в книжной форме, и это именно то, что должна быть ночная книга.

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[Iversen]

I have been away on a weeklong excursion to the Easterly parts of Denmark, i.e. Zealand (Sjælland) and the South Sea Islands, and I'm still in the process of putting a bit of order into my photos so this will only be a short message.

First I had booked a car on a weekend lease, then I wanted to buy train tickets and discovered that there weren't any cheap tickets Friday. OK, then I changed my arrival day to Tuesday and booked the first three nights in central Copenhagen for the nights before I would get the car - after that I needed a place with free parking space, and those places are mostly outside the center. While I was checking the relevant places I discovered that Friday evening was the "Cultural Night", where more than 100 public and private institutions are open for visits. Well, that changed my plans somewhat since I also had planned to take a night or two on the Southerly islands Lolland and Falster (with the car), but now I had to remain near Copenhagen during the weekend.

And to boot, I bought a two day Copenhagen card for the first full two days. It's expensive, but good because it gives free access to most museums in Eastern Zealand including Copenhagen - not just discounts as some of its competitors (like the totally rotten London Card)... but you have to visit a lot of places to make such a card a worthwhile investment. Luckily I'm quite good at visiting a lot of places in no time at all, so first I went on a touristical marathon stakhanovich spree for two days, then I fetched the car in a town called Roskilde and parked it at my second hotel in a Northern suburb to Copenhagen, wherupon I walked some 4 km to the nearest train station, got by local train into downtown Copenhagen and went on a mad rush through as many places as possible for a whole evening there before I returned by train and bus to my hotel, more dead than alive.

The day after (Saturday) was designed as a resting day so I just took the car around Northern Zealand and visited Frederiksborg castle and a bird zoo. Sunday I drove down to my only night on Lolland-Falster. I did visit the world famous crocodile zoo and a small local zoo, but with my changed plans there wasn't time to visit Knuthenborg safari Park as I originally had planned - that will have to wait.

So all in all I had 2½ transportation days and 4½ tourism frenzy days, and during these last ones I visited 3 zoos and 1 aquarium, 3 castles, a dozen museums, half a dozen churches, one ministerium and a couple of other public institutions (like the Royal kitchen) - plus of course several supermarkets, three hotels, two pizzerias, several railway stations with their trains, the bar of my travel club and 3 libraries and a wood adjacent to the lake that has been immortalized in a Danish song "Flyv, fugl! Flyv over Furesøens vove!" by a poet named Christian Winther - but luckily nobody sang it in my presence. I also played a little bit of cello for the first time in twenty years at the Music Museum, where they had demonstration and try-it-yourself sessions with conservatory students. So just for fun I played the first five minutes or so of Dvoraks cello concerto and a few snippets of Saint-Saëns' first concert. My fingers aren't as nimble as they once were, but I still remember the scores.

And languages? Well...

I had some time to read things in the trains to and from my home, but I did sudokus instead. And during the week it wasn't until Saturday Evening that I had the energy to study properly .- and then it was my old TY Irish I used (brought along because of it fitted into a pocket). I made a word list of around 350 words and read the chapter about subordinate clauses etc. once more, and Sunday evening I added a couple of other chapters. But I'll write more about those things and a few other topics tomorrow. Right now it's time to go back to the photo selection and revision project and finish it.

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[Iversen]

I worked on my photos until past midday today, and since then I have spent some of my time surfing in languages I know fairly well instead of studying.

GER: Ich dachte zum Beispiel darüber nach, wie Komponisten ohne Klavier komponieren können, wenn sie kein absolutes Gehör besitzen. Ich habe als Suchterm "Absolutes Gehör Komponisten" gewählt, weil "Komponieren ohne Klavier" nichts gebracht hat. Das Ergebnis war etwas enttäuschend - es gaben zwar einige kurze Diskussionen in Foren und einige Begriffsbestimmuingen und Kleinartikeln, wo die selben Standard-Behauptungen immer wieder wiederholt wurden. Zum Beispiel nahmen fast alle Kommentatoren an, daß nur einer von 10.000 Menschen im Westen dem Namen eines vorgespielte isolierte Ton angeben konnte. Woher kommt eigentlich diese Zahl? Bei soviel Einigkeit denke ich immer, daß der eine nach dem anderen bloß abgeschrieben hat, und daß der erste, der diese Zahle vorgeschlagen hat, nur eine unverbindtliche Vermutung ausgesprochen hat. EDIT: Quelle der sagenhaften 10.000: "Profita and Bidder:‘Perfect Pitch’, American Journal of Medical Genetics, xxix (1988), 763-71 1988"

Tatsache ist aber, daß Sprecher von tonalen Sprachen ganz oft absolutes Gehör haben. Ein englischsprachiger Artikel von Diana Deutsch erzählt von einem Versuch, wo Vietnamesen über mehrere aufeinanderfolgende Tage die selben Wörter lies und dies afgenommen wurde - und sie sagten tatsächlich die gleichen Wörter mit fast eksakt der gleiche Tonhöhe jedes Mal. Obwohl sie vielleicht nicht in der Lage waren, die Tonhöhen als Noten anzugeben, hatten sie offensichtlich ein eingebautes Gehirnsystem, die ihnen erlaubte solche konstante Tonhöhen aufrechtzuerhalten. Und warum auch nicht?

Fast alle Kommentatoren weitergeben auch ohne weiter als Tatsache, daß Erwachsene niemals Absolutes Gehör lernen können - nur diejenige, die Gehörkursen anbieten, äussern mitunter divergierende Meinungen. Ich weiß von mir selbst, daß Absolutes Gehör tatsächlich erlernbar ist - viele Jahre, wo ich einersatz Instrumente gespielt haben und andererseits ohne Instrumente komponiert habe, und wo ich auch Themen nach Gehör niedergeschrieben habe, haben mich dazu gebracht, daß ich heute immer Musik als Noten mit ihrer respektive Höhen höre (oder gar als Notenschrift sehe). Warum wird dann das Gegensatz immer wieder hartnäckig behauptet?

Parallel dazu ist in der Sprachwelt die Behauptung, daß nur Kinder die Aussprache von Fremdsprachen richtig lernen können. Ich bin nicht selbst eine Ausnahme von dieser Regel (ich spreche allgemein mit Akzent in meinen Sprachen), aber wenn man die relevanten Methoden angeben kann,die jemand die Fähigkeit beibringen kann, genaue Tonhöhen zu hören, muß es auch Methoden geben, die Erwachsenen beibringen können, ausländische Wörter wie Muttersprachler auszusprechen.

EN: I mentioned yesterday that I have been reading some sections of my old TY Irish. Actually the one about subordinate clauses isn't one of the most murky ones - it treats the different types one after the other, and it does mention that you mostly have a relative clause with "a" after "nuair" ('when'), but "go" after other words like "chun" or "i treo" which mean something like 'towards' - and the result is a final clause. I would however prefer to have such statements presented in the form of hardcore tables, not as remarks in normal language as you would have them in a informal conversation.

IR: Rinneann seandálaithe na Danmhairge an tAois Iarainn a roinnt i dtrí thréimhse: Iarann aois Cheilteach, Iarann aois na Rómhánach agus Iarann aois na Gearmáine (a deireanach go dtí ré na Lochlannaigh). Ach fiú roimh an aois Iarann tá rudaí ann a thugann a bheith ag baint i dtaca ar dhaoine sa tuaisceart agus réamhtheachtaí na gCeiltighi i lár na hEorpa. Fuarthas citeal airgid mór le pictiúir de roinnt déithe i Gundestrup i Danmhairc. An bhfuil adharca ar cheann acu - is é an diúlach a tháinig ina dhiaidh sin an dia Ceilteach Cernunnos? Ag an Ard-Mhúsaem i gCóbanhávan tá clogaid le adharcaigh ó éan-umha a bhfuil adharca den sórt sin acu. Cén áit a ndeachaigh an teorainn idir na Ceiltigh agus na Gearmánaigh ansin?

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