Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby einzelne » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:12 am

Iversen wrote:Сам Пушкин убил много людей на дуэлях, прежде чем кому-то удалось прикончить его - возможно потеря для литературы, но благо для человечества.


We did you get that from? He killed zero people. True, challenged and was challenged like 30 times, but 25 times the duel was cancelled.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:05 pm

Concerning the duels of Pushkin: I didn't check the facts before writing, and in this case it was a mistake. I knew that Pushkin had been involved in a large number of duels, and that he died in the last one so I assumed that he had won the rest, leaving a trail of dead opponents. But I had not noticed that his friends made sure that only a few of these duels actually took place (duelling actually was a criminal offence at the time), and that Pushkin didn't actually kill any opponent in the four or five exceptions. I have found a complete commented list here and intend to use it as a study text, and I'll revise my text so that it does accuse him of making too many duel challenges (sometimes for ridiculous reasons, like challenging people who had complained over being insulted in Pushkin's own writings), but not of killing people.

The man who in the second attempt did kill him, a Frenchman named Georges d’Anthès, was ripped of his military orders and expelled from Russia to France, which he took as a blessing since it permitted him to start a political career there. The cause of this duel was a cloudy affair which involved the the Dutch ambassador (who had adopted d'Anthès, who was a French officer in Russian service) and Pushkin's own wife and her sister, who had married d'Anthès - surely enough stuff for a whole novel, and maybe somebody already has written it.

The things I now had read about Pushkin and his time and society makes me happy that I haven't read more Russian novels, and that duels aren't as frequent nowadays as during the times of mister Pushkin.

Kunst077.JPG

Apart from that I have just returned from a family visit, where I did watch TV in a number of languages, including a two-part tale in German (with Russian beneath the German dubbing) about a cruise voyage on the river Volga. My mother has been on such a cruise herself and recognized many places, but personally I have never been on a river cruise, and I'm not even sure that I have ever watched the mighty Volga myself - except maybe from a plane.

My only real study activity consisted in grabbing a German-Danish dictionary and making a wordlist with words that all started with ge- (or Ge-). And now I wonder whether a Gehbahn is broader than a Gehsteig.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby einzelne » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:39 pm

If you’re interested in the duel phenomenon, there’s a very thorough (and entertaining) study of it: «Книга о русской дуэли» Востриков (libgen has a scan).
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri May 07, 2021 9:00 pm

The last week I have been busy with music projects and computer projects and at least one project that combines the two. Some time ago I made a historical synopsis for my current music collection and its predecessors. First I collected vinyl, then cassettes with random music which I didn't have in my LP collection (and along the way I transferred all my LP items to cassettes), and in 91-92 I made a second cassette collection using all the sources I could access at the time, this time with cassettes named after major composers, but because of the fixed tape lengths I had to accept some compromises. About five years ago when I retired from my job I decided to transfer the lot to WAW and MP3 files with Audacity, and since then I have spent literally thousands of hours moving the items around and replacing the worst ones with better material - and everything has been meticulously documented. I now basically have the collection I always have wanted. I should be content but ...

Some months ago I decided that it would be nice to have a simple historical overview that showed when each item appeared in my collection, and whether the musicians had been replaced during the process. Unfortunately I hadn't planned this properly: I first combined the first stages using a principle where an item got a mark if it was replaced later. OK, I reached the end, but the result was full of errors and hard to interpret. Buggers! So now I'm midway through a remake where items are marked if they themselves are replacements of something different. So here "ny" (=new) means that an item has appeared for the first time, "x" means that it is played by other musicians than in the precedent generation, and "o" means that it has been extended - for instance by acquiring a suite where I beforejust had one movement.

I have also tried to become familiar with the first smartphone in my life - partly because I need it to show covid passes, partly because some homepages refuse to work on my old PC which still runs Win 7, and I expect that tendency to become more and more prevalent (my trusted old world is falling apart!). And on top of that I have been working on a project for my old workplace.

Luckily I can listen to both music and speech while working on my computer, so while my intensive studies have been at a historical low I have listened to TV programs and Youtube lectures and documentaries in a number of languages - although for obvious reasons only those I understand fluently since I have to work with my projects at the same time.

FR: J'ai déjà mentionné les videos sur la paléontologie de monsieur Simplex Paléo, mais de là j'ai passé à autres videos, tels ceux sur l'astronomie de monsieur Astronogeek - comme par example un vidéo où il a fait remarqué que le feu proprement dit n'est pas tellement commun dans l'univers. Certes, il y beaucoup de matières extrement chaudes ici et ailleurs, mais si on regarde le problème de plus près, presque tout qui brûle sur notre planète a été produit par des organismes vivants. Et l'oxygène de l'atmosphère de Terra a été produit par des plantes. Boff- c'est vrai, mais l'idée m'avait échappé jusqu'à ce que ce bonhomme me l'a expliqué. Après ça il m'a aussi convaincu que la lune Phobos de Mars n'est pas une sphère artificielle creuse produite par des aliens (comme l'aurait proposé certains 'théoriciens' sur certains chaines inférieurs de television).

IT: Ma questa sera ho ascoltato soltanto dei video italiani. Perché il motore di richerche di Youtube (al contrario di quello di Google Search) non ha un modo semplice per limitarsi ad una sola lingua, bisogna prima trovare un video in una lingua desiderata, e poi forse si può trovare riferimenti ad altri video rilevanti nella lingua.

Io cercai all'inizio video di "Paleontologia" e trovai prevalentemente video inglesi, dunque ho aggiunto la parola "feroce" e ricevetti molti suggestioni in francese, ma anche alcuni in italiano. Ho ascoltato inizialmente un documentario lungo lungo sui dinosauri, ma sotto il doppiaggio in italiano si sentiva parlare in inglese. Non ho potuto sopportarlo e il borbottare ha seriamente disturbato il mio lavoro - quindì dovetti trovare altra cosa, e nell'elenco a destra ho trovato un video di signor ZooSparkle, che si può dire essere la controparte italiana di Simplex P - parla almeno altrettanto velocemente, e preferibilmente sugli animali antichi, ma anche su alcuni animal viventi o recentemente estinti - come per esempio l'imposante Elasmotherium, il quale ho menzionato in gennaio quest'anno qui.

Nel suo video sulla fauna Harrypotterianesca comenta sulla ragionevolezza e probabilità di sopravvivenza di per ragni enormi come Aragog, e poiché questi ottengono la loro aria a traverrso minuscoli pori nella pelle, i conti non stanno buoni per il povero Aragog - va morir! Discute anche di che tipo di ragno sia, ma potrebbe importa meno quando sia morte (come anche Shelob nel Signore degli Anelli e la cupa Ungoliant del Silmarillon). D'altra parte, discute in dettagli tecnici approfonditi come gli uccelli si adattano al gruppo di dinosauri predatori, e quindi ci sono anche video piuttosto seri nel suo programma.

Aragog.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat May 08, 2021 10:57 pm

Today I basically did the same things as yesterday, i.e. work on my computer while listening to and occasionally looking at my TV or a frame with youtube videos. The main difference from yesterday was that today I had English and German quizzes running on TV during the afternoon and after thatI listened to videos in Brazilian Portuguese all evening long (except maybe the last one, that didn't sound particularly brazilian). I started out with a long documentary about the a selva amazonica, probably made in English, but dubbed. However then I got the idea to search for videos about sights in Rio de Janeiro, and then I became engulfed in material about first the zoo (now BioParco), then a splendid new aquarium which opened a couple of years ago, followed by the Botanical Garden and the plans for rebuilding the Museu Nacional which burned down three years ago - more or less at the same time that the new aquarium was built and the zoo was renovated. This museum was housed in a palace that once housed the imperial family so you might have expected a historical museum, but its collections were more focused on natural history and etnography. Among other things it contained the skull of the oldest human in the Americas (some 40.000 years old).

After that a video in Portuguese about the Malaysian jungle and as the so far last item a short video in either Malaysian or Indonesian intitulated "Entrevista Kompletu Embaixadora Malazia ho Jornalista hafoin despede PR Lu Olo", The topic was arguable Timor Leste, a tiny Lusophone nation situated on the Eastern half of an otherwise Indonesian Island - but if the Timolestean people write their variant of Portuguese like the title then it has drifted quite far away from any variant of Portuguese I have seen up to now! Given the title I thought the interview would be in Portuguese, but it definitely wasn't. At first I didn't understand much, but I did recognized a fair number of the words from my Indonesian studies - and the second and third time I run it through I came fairly close to understanding what the lady actually said. I have spent a lot of time of studying written Indonesian so I guess that I could get my epiphany experience just by listening to her for just a few hours. But alas, that was not to be - the video was just three minutes long, and I only listened to it three times in a row.

Kunst113.JPG

POR: Visitei o Rio de Janeiro apenas uma vez, em 2002 ((durante a campanha eleitoral de Lula e em combinação com o Paraguai e a província argentina de Misiones). Eu visitei o zoológico e o jardim botânico e muitos outros lugares. Mas muitas coisas tem acontecido depois a minha visita. O zoológico aparentemente foi privatizado e agora se chama Bioparco (a mesma coisa aconteceu em Roma, Itália). Há um vídeo da rededicação aqui - observe as máscaras covid! Lembro-me sobretudo que havia uma quantidade incrível de diferentes tipos de papagaios verdes no jardim,, mas o dinheiro para placas de identificação aparentemente acabou-se no meio do caminho (foram patrocinados por uma empresa privada). Em seu novo design, provavelmente há menos espécies, mas talvez mais ambientes naturais.

No mesmo parque - Parco do Quintal - encontra-se / encontrava-se também o Museu Nacional que, como já foi referido, queimou há alguns anos. Na internet há um pequeno vídeo sobre os planos de restauração (vou ve-lo antes de acreditar-lo!), mais também um passeio não comentado pelos salas antes do fogo.

Projeto_Museu_Nactional_Rio.jpg

Mas, além disso, aprendi que o Rio agora tem um grande aquário legal perto do porto. Ouvi vários vídeos sobre essa nova atração. Em um deles acompanhamos uma família pelo local, com aquele tipo de tagarelice interna que é o tipo de fala mais difícil de entender para os aprendidores. Outro estava mais seco, e juntos deram uma boa impressão de uma instituição que eu gostaria muito ver quando a pandemia finir - mas neste momento não está muito indo ir acà. Devo estar feliz por ter conseguido visitar as cidades brasileiras de Natal e Recife no ano de 2019, antes da corona.

f2318a02_selfie-no-museu-de-historia.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon May 10, 2021 8:31 pm

I have finished the historical overview over my music collection, and while doing this I ironically didn't listen to music, but mostly to television documentaries, namely a string of excellent geographical programs from 3SAT and ARTE in German. When it isn't practically possible to travel yourself you have to live on old memories and films made by others, but one of my main grievances with the kind of people who make such films is that they spend almost all their precious time visiting local residents rather than showing streets and buildings and beautiful places in nature. It may be because people who are drawn to journalism and related jobs tend to be extrovert people who think that the very meaning of life is to meet other people and talk them to death, but when I travel I won't meet the same people they talk to, and I definitely spend more time looking at things than speaking to people. So when I watch travel programs I want to see places which I could visit myself - or already have visited, since I have been a dedicated traveller for many years.

GER: Deshalb hat es mich erfreut, heute etliche Programme zu sehen + hören, in denen Straßen, Burgen und Naturgebiete tatsächlich gezeigt wurden. Es gab sogar ein Programm über Naturgebiete in Dänemark auf Arte, und hier habe ich im Videotext auf Seite 888 aufgeschlagen, wo es französische Untertitel gibt. Ich habe auf ARTE diese Seite oft benutzt, wenn ich gleichzeitig Ferngesehen und Musik gehört habe, aber Untertitel ohne Ton haben noch einen weiteren wichtigen Vorteil: es wird nicht gleichzeitig Englisch und Deutsch gesprochen.

Die dänischen Behörden mögen noch nicht touristische Reisen zu anderen Orten, aber der größte Teil der Welt ist jetzt orange geworden (nicht Indien, nicht Brasilien, nicht Südafrika - die sind immer noch rotgefärbt). Dies bedeutet jedoch nicht, daß die Anforderungen an Koronapässe und Quarantäne verschwunden sind - es gibt zwar Länder, die jetzt vollständig geimpfte Touristen aufnehmen, aber man riskiert immer noch, nach seinem Rückkehr unter Quarantäne gestellt zu werden, und die Sehenswürdigkeiten in diesen Ländern ist möglicherweise noch nicht geöffnet, oder es gilt Sperrzeiten, Reisebeschränkungen uzw. War es nicht die Türkei, die es Touristen erlaubte, durch die Straßen zu wandern, sondern nicht die eigenen Einwohner des Landes? Tourismus unter solchen Bedingungen ist nicht attraktiv.

SP: ¿Se podría mencionar un recuerdo de viaje? En 2001, yo había organizado un viaje a Guatemala y El Salvador, y estaba caminando por el aeropuerto de Kastrup (cerca de Copenhague) cuando escuché casualmente por la radio de una cafetería que había habido un gran terremoto en los dos países durante la noche. Investigué el asunto, y de hecho Iberia pretendía volar al aeropuerto de Ciudad de Guatemal mientras todo estaba cerrado en San Salvador. Ni siquiera consideré quedarme en casa quando se podria ir, y afortunadamente l'aeropuerto de San Salvador (Comalapa) abrió unos dias antes de que tuviera que retornar a casa.

EN: ..and another travel memory: i 1994 I had booked a trip to Australia with Sydney as the first destination. And precisely at that moment the Blue Mountains that surround the city caught fire and started to burn in earnest. Of course I contacted the travel agency to hear what their plans were, stating clearly that I saw no reason to drop the tour. And they did carry through with the program as planned - but they also told me that everybody else they had heard from was worried about going to Sydney when the smoke from burning Eucalyptus was blowing right into the town center and some suburbs already had been fried- some had even called in to cancel their trip. My reasoning was that as long as the airport stayed open there wasn't any real danger - except of course that the excursion to the Blue Mountains might be cancelled.

So I'm not what you could call a timid traveller, but I just don't want to be caught out by idiotic bureaucratic hurdles or visit places that are virtually deserted because of some bothersome pandemia - then better postpone and watch TV or Youtube instead.

f1840a01_el area de espera en el aeropuerto de Comalapa (observe el estado del techo).jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu May 13, 2021 1:14 pm

I have listened to a number of Youtube-videos in Romance languages this week. The last videos I have mentioned here were in Italian and Brazilian Portuguese, and in between I have also passed through a number of items in other languages. But since my entries already are quite long I tend not to wallow in extensive activities, so let me just mention two topics elucidated through the auscultation of topic-relevant Youtube videos. Tuesday evening I somehow ended up watching/listening to videos about the Spanish town Valencia (where hardly anyone speaks the local language, which is called Valencian because it would get you expelled if you called it a dialect of Catalan). One of the videos told about the excellent aquarium and its futuristic neighbours, and of course it was in Castillian, not Valencià. In general it is easy to find relevant videos about just about any subject in Castilian. As for Catalan the videos seem to be divided into very short that are over before you have grasped what it is all about, and very long ones which tend to be lectures read aloud by a monotone voice that drones on forever. Among the semi-long OK ones I would just mention one, namely "Els últims dinosaures d'Europa".

Yesterday I spent a fair amount of time on an old Teach Yourself Greek, which I bought around 1980 - but then I stopped learning languages, and I only used the first part. And when I resumed language learning the Greeks had changed their orthography, but it is from the Golden (or rather light blue) Era of the series, and there are some lists in it which are useful even now. I grabbed it Tuesday because I wanted to take a corona test, and I expected waiting time. And then yesterday I emptied my pockets and decided to have a closer look.

Today I have read the latest issue of 'Esperanto', which ...
EO: ... interalie rakontis pri la revuo "Kontakto" de la junulara organizo TEJO, membrorevuo kiu nun atingis numeron 300, pri la Polyglota Kunveno, kiu nun okazas kiel virtuala evento por la dua jaro sinsekve (kaj sen mia partopreno por la dua jaro sinsekve), pri irana konferenco, kie la estonteco de lingvo en virtuala mondo kaj panela diskuto nomata "Kovim-19, kiel ĝi ŝanĝis nin?". Kaj la respondo estas en la aliaj artikoloj: la pandemio devigis la esperantistojn okazigi siajn eventojn per interreto - kaj ĝi estas efektive logika evoluo por lingvo, kiu ne havas sian propran patrujon, eĉ malpli sian propran armeon kaj mararmeon.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Dagane » Thu May 13, 2021 1:33 pm

Iversen wrote:Spanish town Valencia (where hardly anyone speaks the local language, which is called Valencian because it would get you expelled if you called it a dialect of Catalan).

That's because Valencian and Catalan are linguistically variants of the same language, but that language isn't necessarily Catalan. Catalan just happens to be more popular and widespread. Based on the oldest known great literary works, many argue that the "primary" language is in fact Valencian (so Catalan would then be a dialect of Valencian). What can I say, I don't speak any of the two :lol: .

Calling the third or fourth largest Spanish city a "town", however... :lol: .
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu May 13, 2021 2:16 pm

I generally call the common language Catalan because most speakers live in Catalunya, and the variant that is used most in writing these days is Catalan from Barcelona and its surroundings. But ideally the common language should have a name that isn't tied to one location. The same problem arises with Dutch and Flemish - what's the common name for these two?

Valencian is slightly softer sounding than (standard) Catalan, and you see 'u' in the spelling in some words instead of 'v' (like "seua" his/her instead of "seva"). As for the historical background it is hard to find out where the first thing that clearly was Catalan was spoken, simply because it wasn't written down at the time. But quite generally the 'modern' Iberoromance dialects all were formed in the North and spread Southwards, so my guess would be that it started in the Northern part of Catalunya, and that's also the stance taken by the English Wikipedia. Besides it was tied closely to Occitan, which definitely was spoken North of the Pyrenees. The special dialect spoken in the Balearic Island (by the indigenous population) would presumably be from a slightly later time where the Catalan rulers extended their dominion the the islands. My personal unsubstantiated hypothesis is however that the 's' in the articles in that dialect ("sa" instead of "la") might be inspired from Sardinian, where the articles always had such an 's'.

CAT: Quan estudiava durant els anys 70, llegia molts textos catalans antics i no eren especialment difícils d’entendre. Jo vaig esmentar Ramon LLull en aquest fil de registre, un autor mallorquí més vell que els mestres valencians com p.ex. Ausias March. Però al principi la llengua es trobava a mig camí entre el castellà i l’occità i, des de llavors, la direcció ha anat en la direcció de cada vegada més influència del castellà. L’ortografia catalana es va establir tan sols al segle XIX, especialment per l’eminent lingüista Pompeu Fabra, però mentre jo estudiava (en un passat llunyà on els dinosaures recorrien els carrers i ningú no tenia telèfons intel·ligents amb Facebook), tenia accés a una gramàtica escrita per un lingüist anomenat Fox, on l’ortografia era la seva pròpia invenció o almenys pre-pompeiana. No sé si Valencià vaig obtenir la seva pròpia grafia abans o després o al mateix temps que aquella que utilitzen a Catalunya.

Parlants-de-Valencia-per-municipi (Viquipedia).jpg

Quote from Gutenberg (a 'macaronic' version of the Strasbourg oaths).

Greuges of Guitard Isarn, Lord of Caboet (ca. 1080–1095)

Hec est memoria de ipsas rancuras que abet dominus Guitardus Isarnus, senior Caputense, de rancuras filio Guillelm Arnall et que ag de suo pater, Guilelm Arnall; et non voluit facere directum in sua vita de ipso castro Caputense che li comannà. Et si Guilelm Arnal me facia tal cosa que dreçar no·m volgués ho no poqués, ho ssi·s partia de mi, che Mir Arnall me romasés aisí com lo·m avia al dia che ad él lo commanné. Et in ipsa onor a Guillelm Arnal no li doné negú domenge ni establiment de cavaler ni de pedó per gitar ni per metre quan l·i comanné Mir Arnall.


I hope that it is obvious to the honoured reader of these lines that this points in the direction .. nay, it IS already Catalan (interspersed with some Latin). And it was written by a nobleman who participated in the creation of Andorra as an independent nation, actually the only nation where Catalan still is the official language.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby tractor » Fri May 14, 2021 6:20 pm

The article with s used to be more widespread in Catalan, and can still be found in a few places in Catalonia:
https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_salat
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