Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:50 pm

It has been a long time since last message, and for a good reason: I have been travelling in England, and I only found only a customer PC in the second of of the six guesthouses/hotels where I have stayed furing the last two weeks. Internet cafés have also become rare because everyone now carries his/her own equipment around, and the computers in the three libraries I visited were reserved for the local users, not for hap- and gadgetless tourists. I'm not going to write a complete travelogue here (at least not today, and not in English), but suffice to say that I had bought a 1. class Britrail card for England. This means that I have been scouring around in the country, visiting just about every major city except London and other places where I have been during the last decennium - or in other words: places like Heathrow, Exeter, Plymouth, Newquay, Salisbury, Winchester, Weymouth, Bornemouth, Portsmouth, Bristol, Birmingham, Dudley, Shrewsbury, Chester, Manchester, Leeds, York, Hull, Scarborough, Durham, Newcastle, Tynemouth, Oxford .. and well, London - but only Paddington Station. The problem with a schedule like that is that you have to spend a lot of time to prepare the schedule for the next days and keep track of the things you already have done, and therefore there hasn't been time to intensive studies. I did however bring a stack of printouts along, and I may write about a few of those texts in the coming days, but right now my first priority is to bring a modicum of order to the 600 or so photos I have brought back with me (plus the 16 postcards). I normally cut this down to a third or so, and that is also be my intention this time, so I will be busy with this the next couple of days.

By the way: the thing that surprised me most was to hear a standard message in the trains and on the stations about where and how to report trouble. The point was that if you reported something to the police they would just 'sort' it (literally “See It. Say It. Sorted”). I would expect them to do something, and not just to categorize the complaints of their customers. Like "sort it out" (and not just "sort" the reports).

Britrail.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
4 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:31 am

As I mentioned above I did read some non-English texts during my trip through England. I also heard a few people speak non-English languages, and the most interesting was being in trains around Shrewsbury and Chester, where I heard something totally incomprehensible with a vague Celtic ring to it - so presumably those people spoke Welsh. Maybe I should have tried to find some books in that language in the two cities, but at that point I still walked around with my hand luggage and I didn't want it to become any heavier - instead I had planned to buy books in Foyles in London, but due to technical problems on the train line between Oxford and Reading I got to London an hour later than expected so ... no books.

I have made a map of my route:

Britrail&1.jpg

And now to my readings:

Among other things I had brought along two collections of paleontologic printouts in Catalan, one about extinct humans and the other about weird old relatives of the girafs and okapis. Let's have a look at the last group.

CA: A l'època d'Eocè el clima era humit i el globus estava dominat per selves. En l'època següent, el Miocè, el clima es va fer més sec i les estepes herbassades van esclatar. Entre entre les criatures d'aquestes estepes hi havia un grup d'animals anomenat paleomerícids, que es menciona entre altres a la pàgina web bestiarifossil.icp.cat. El fet més interesant d'aquestes remugants era que els mascles tenien estranyes protuberàncies sobre els seus caps. De fet, també les jirafas i els okapis (tant els mascles com les femelles) tenen formacions semblants, però no tan grans, i ni tan sols es divideixen en dues com un Y una de les branques del qual podria ser més gruixuda i més bulliciosa que l'altra. Però la jirafa d'avui també és un animal estrany. Si no existís, nosaltres no creguéssim que existís! Una vegada vaig visitar una exposició en Barcelona sobre les expedicions xineses sota Zheng He, que va arribar fins a Africa, i allà van presentar la primera reunió de un xinés amb una girafa:

F3827a04_jirafa.jpg

L'altre col·lecció de textes es referia, entre altres coses, a la senyora Hobbit trobada en Flores, però he escrit molt sobre ella això abans. A més, algunes coses sobre els neandertals i els denisovans, però també els he comentat abans.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
3 x

Lawyer&Mom
Blue Belt
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:08 am
Languages: English (N), German (B2), French (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7786
x 3767

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:36 pm

Sounds like a really cool trip! I’d love to hear more about it, language related or not.
0 x
Grammaire progressive du français -
niveau debutant
: 60 / 60

Grammaire progressive du francais -
intermédiaire
: 25 / 52

Pimsleur French 1-5
: 3 / 5

User avatar
MamaPata
Brown Belt
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), French (C1*), Russian (B1), Spanish (B1).

Long lost: Arabic and Latin.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
x 1807

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby MamaPata » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:27 pm

Iversen wrote:By the way: the thing that surprised me most was to hear a standard message in the trains and on the stations about where and how to report trouble. The point was that if you reported something to the police they would just 'sort' it (literally “See It. Say It. Sorted”). I would expect them to do something, and not just to categorize the complaints of their customers. Like "sort it out" (and not just "sort" the reports).

Britrail.jpg


I'd say 'sort it' is a reasonable version of 'fix it' - I assume it came from 'sort it out' which is still more common, but I do hear 'sort it' from time to time outside of those adverts. 'Sorted' is used for 'fixed' even more.
1 x
Corrections appreciated.

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:55 pm

I did notice that "sorted" without further additions also may be used in much the same way by normal people. For instance I noticed that the lady who showed my my room in an inn in Oxford used it ... but I still have a suspicion that it has become more frequent because of the campaign in the trains. I don't remember it from earlier visits .. and it still irritates me!

Today I had a train travel of 1½ hours, that got somewhat longer because of technical problems. Since I had brought both the list of expressions from the thread "Bahasa Indonesia untuk Dunia" and my trusty Tuttle dictionary along I could get some studying done, and I noticed that there were a number of words in the list which didn't appear in Tuttle - maybe because they are regional or informal. For instance the most common word for 'I' in the expressions is "gua" - which I knew existed, but Tuttle doesn't mention it. Words like "ngapain" (apparently 'to do something'), "ngendarai" (apparently "to drive") and "gatau" (apparently "not know") are missing, but it seems that these unknown words mostly are contractions of words that do appear. For instance I noticed "gabisa" (apparently "not be able to"), where the root "bisa" is evident, and "ga-" will be known from "gak" ('no(t)'). So "gatau" could be "ga-" (not) plus a contracted form of "..tahu" ('to know"). There is also an ending "-in" which I haven't noticed in the dictionary. It appears in substantives: "fotoin" ('a photo' in the translation), but also in something resembling imperatives: "idupin" ('turn on ..."), "ceritain" ('tell me..). It is easy to see the patterns, but for some reason I wasn't aware of this -in.

IN: Saya belum membaca apa pun dalam bahasa Indonesia pada minggu terakhir, jadi saya tidak bisa menulis tentang teks. Dan di televisi ada beberapa siaran tentang kehidupan liar di bagian dunia itu, tetapi saya tidak belajar banyak bahasa darinyalah.

During my trip to England I visited not only aquaria and zoos, but also several old venerable cathedrals, and in some of those I found unexpected items - like the burial place of the venerable Bede in the Galilee Chapel of the cathedral in Durham. The Anglosaxon text below can be read in the City Museum of Winchester, which is found right beside the cathedral. The collections of the museum also illustrate some aspects of the Roman life in the preceding period. The ending -(c)ester in a town name (and an idiosyncratic pronunciation) is a sure indicator of a Roman past: Leicester, Gloucester, Colchester - and Chester, all derived from somethingcastrum, which in Anglosaxon became somethingceastre.

As for Winchester cathedral itself I followed a free guided tour, which was done in spite of a bellowing organ. The one unexpected item mentioned during this tour was a bust of the diver William Walker, who saved the the cathedral when it was sinking. The problem with cathedrals is that they are heavy, and some like the one in Winchester (and its neighbour in Salisbury) are built on sand and mud. So when it was discovered in the 19. century that the cathedral was collapsing the engineers decided to pump some concrete into the fundament below it. But when they tried to get the concrete into the deep caverns below the church the water streams destroyed their work, and then they sent Mr. Walker into the abyss with a concrete spewing tube, whereupon then he spent the next six years applying the concrete where it was needed - and against expectations the cathedral still stands. Mr. Walker definitely earned his honours the hard way - but at least he got them.

F5743b0x_Wrætlic.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
4 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:27 am

IN: Saya hanya memiliki komentar tentang Indonesia: Saya melihat di akhir pekan lalu sebuah program televisi tentang misterius penurunan suhu global di 1256. Itu tampak seperti konsekuensi dari letusan gunung berapi, tapi tak seorangpun tahu gunung berapi yang meledak pada saat itu - dan itu harus menjadi gunung berapi besar! Setelah bekerja detektif banyak, ditemukan: kawah di Lombok terbukti menjadi sisa-sisa gunung berapi yang sekarang menghilang. Hal yang menarik adalah bahwa dalam teks kuno pada daun lontar, ada penggambaran saksi mata ditemukan dari letusan, dan nama ditemukan: gunung berapi Gunung Samalas. Tapi sekarang tidak lagi. Hanya adalah danau Segara Anak di sebelah gunung berapi Rinjani,

SegaraAnak.jpg

The explosion of Mount Samalas was certainly big (probably even bigger than Tambora), and the consequences of its eruption were felt all over the planet because it was so close to the Equator. And similar large eruptions may have caused other temporary dips in the global temperatures and - by consequence - global famine due to failed harvests. One such event has been blamed for several years of seriously bad weather starting in 536 AD, and it has been suggested that the scary memory of this event has been preserved as the idea of a 'fimbul winter' preceding Ragnarok in the Nordic mythology.

IC: Var það fornleifafræðingurinn Bo Gräslund sem benti á að það hafi verið leifar af stóru eldgosi í 536 í borunum frá Grænlandi ísís, og að þeir voru á réttum tíma til að mynda frásögn fimbulvetrarins. Sumir vísindamenn hafa áætlað að um helmingur íbúanna í norðri dóu á hungri vegna þessa fjölára uppskerubrestra.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
0 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:47 pm

I have spent most of a day writing a travelogue and rewriting my daily reports concerning the trip to England, both in Danish. It was a complicated trip and therefore I knew it would take time to summarize it, but it also took time because I have spent time looking things up on the internet. For instance I keep a list of maps of zoos and aquaria. Why? Well because I now have something like 548 items on my list over such places, and then it becomes imperative to have some things to make me remember them - and the ground plans is one such thing.

Unfortunately the British Sealife aquaria - shame on them! - have started a terrible new trend: instead of the oldfashioned maps that showed your walking route through the instutions they now use an idiotic system with 'thematic areas' placed as in an oval. That doesn't help me at all -no aquarium among those I have seen was ever ovalshaped. The Sealife aquaria I have visited outside Britain all have given me good maps which clearly showed the ins and outs of their labyrinthic routes. In Britain most non-Sealife aquaria still provide you with some kind of map, but apparently somebody at the top level in the the Sealife chain decided that their costumers shouldn't know too precisely where they had been - and then they switched to those useless ovals. Which just goes to show that bad communication doesn't have to be formulated in words.

I did however locate some of the old maps on the internet, and in those cases where I had produced my own maps while walking through the respective localities I could then compare my humble cartographic attempts with the good old maps - and generally I didn't make many errors, but the old maps were more artistic. The trouble started when I then decided that it was worth checking some of my other handwritten maps against the corresponding official maps, insofar they could be found on the internet. And during this process I also found a couple of institutions that don't exist more, ..

GER: ... wie z.B. das Atlanticum in Bremerhaven, das in 2013 geschlossen wurde. Weshalb? Ich weiß es nicht, und Wikipedia - die die Information der Schliesung in sehr wortkarger Form weitergibt - nennt keinen Grund. Vielleicht findet man es in einigen alten Kommentaren, die postulierten, daß der Ort als Aushängeschildt der Fischindustrie diente, und dies wäre politisch nicht annehmbar. Oder vielleicht gab es einfach nicht genug Besucher (das Tropenhaus in Hämeenlinna in Finnland übersiedelte aus diesem Grund zur Finnischen Hauptstadt Helsinki - aber ich kann diese Information dem geehrten Leser leider nicht auf Finnisch weitergeben). Ich habe mich auch früher derüber gewundert, daß das ausgezeichnete und excellent plazierte platzierte Aquarium in Antwerpen nicht überleben konnte. Wie kann das sein?? Zum Glück haben sowohl Bremerhaven als auch Antwerpen noch ihre Zoos.

EO: Mi tamen ankaŭ trovis tempon por legi la esperantan revuon Esperanto, kiu aperis en mia fizika poŝtelejo antaŭ kelkaj tagoj. Jen trovis paroladon pri la venonta konferenco de Lisbono kaj minutojn de iuj jam okazitaj pli malgrandaj okazaĵoj, sed ankaŭ artikolon, kiu traktas la finajon -e en frazojn kun tuta frazo kiel subjekto aŭ sen esprimata subjekto. Ekzemple: "Estas malvarme". Laŭ mi, "malvarme" estas tie predikato de subjekto same kiel in "miaj piedfingroj estas malvarmaj", sed en Esperanto oni devas ŝajne percepti "malvarme" kiel adverbon pro la fino -e. En lingvoj kun neŭtro vi kutime uzas ĉi tion (ekzemple markata kun la finajon -o en latina). Ĉi tio estas nur ekzemplo, ke Esperanto ne estas tute logika. Aŭ ĉu en Esperanto (sed ne en latina) la kondiĉo de esti malvarma kun senpersonaj subjektoj (kaj nur ĉi tiuj) esprimiĝas kun modala adverbo? Do "Resti kun leonoj estas danĝere" (adverbo), sed "leonoj estas dangeraj" (adjektivo). Kaj " (la vetero) Estas malvarme", sed "miaj piedfingroj estas malvarmaj".

Ekzistas tamen lingvoj kie ĉi tiaj signifoj esprimiĝas per verbo, kaj ĝi eble ankaŭ povas esti en Esperanto: ?"Malvarmas" kaj ?"miaj piedfingroj malvarmiĝas" ... sed sendube ne ĉi tio: * "Resti kun leonoj danĝeras". Kiel povas oni klarigi ĉi tion?

La aŭtoro de la artikolo ankaŭ ne povas akcepti la formulaĵo "vidi iujn ludante". Kial ne? Ĉu Zamenhof forgesis uzi ĝin? Aŭ ĉu la aŭtoro malamas ĝin ĉar ĝi memorigas lin pri siaj suferoj lerninte la latina lingvo? Kaj jes, mi intence uzis "lerninte" en ĉi tiu frazo sen peti permeson.

Kunst129.JPG


ADDENDUM: Mi jam vidis ke en la Detala Gramatiko de Esperanto de Lernu la frazo "Resti kun leono estas danĝere" priskribita tiele: "Tio kiu estas danĝera estas la ago resti kun leono. Danĝere estas predikativo de resti. Ĝi havu E-finajon, ĉar ĝi estas priskribo de verbo". Ĉu? "Danĝera" estas bona priskribo de leonoj kaj eble "danĝere" povas priskribi bone la verbo en "leono-amantoj vivas danĝere", sed "danĝere" sendube ne priskribas "estas" en la frazo "resti kun leono estas danĝere" - priskribas "resti kun leono".

Iuj verboj ĝenerale konstruiĝas kun predikato al subjekto (iuj tamen al objektoj), sed estus eraro aserti, ke ĉi tiuj predikatoj fariĝas tiale predikatoj al la verboj mem - Ili ankoraŭ rilatas je io alia (aŭ al nenio). Sed en iuj kazoj en Esperanto adverboj ŝajne devas plenumi la rolon kiel predikata ĉar ne estas neŭtro en la lingvo.!

Parenteze, en indonesia lingvo "berbahaya" (verbo) tute sola povas esprimi "esti danĝera". Ĉu oni povas diri "hidup dengan leion berbahaya"?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:07 pm

When people don't do what they are supposed to do they come up with all kinds of lame excuses. My excuse for not having studied at all since Friday is that I have spent my time on writing a quartet for flute and strings, based on themes and passages from a couple of old string quartets and other discarded works. I have had a pile of sheets with elements that 'might come on handy one day' lying on a taburet for months, and Thursday evening I got tired of looking at it - and on having a piece of furniture with I can't use for its real purpose, namely sitting. And then I spent a couple of days on cooking a quartet for flute, violin, viola and cello in in four movements with a theoretical playing time of around 15 minutes if my metronome numbers can be trusted (but can you? - those of Beethoven are mostly seen as ridiculous). Now I only have one unrevised opus number left, namely the one assigned to a viola concerto which simply isn't ready for publication - and I haven't got time to rewrite it right now.

I'll return when I have something to communicate. And it will NOT, I repeat NOT, be the pathetic admission of having succumbed to the temptation of rewriting an old viola concerto.

Kunst111.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed May 02, 2018 6:02 pm

I hereby proudly attest that I haven't as much as looked at anything resembling viola concerto since the last message - I have studied languages and watched TV and eaten and slept and taken a walk around a nearby lake. OK, I have also listened to music, mostly by French baroque composers. And let me first mention one of those that deserved to be better known, namely Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre (1665 - 1729). I have listened to some of her chamber works, but first and foremost to her harpsichord sonatas. And now we are at it: I wanted to read something more about her career and looked her up using google - and got almost exclusively Anglophone hits. OK, then I added "-was" and hoped that would eliminate the English entries. Nope, the list still looked distinctly monoglot. I have to choose "Indstillinger" (settings), "Avancerede søgninger" (advanced search) and only then I can limit the search to the relevant language. There is a tool which let's me choose Danish only or all languages - which is fairly irrelevant since "all languages" means 95% English or so, even with a name that couldn't be anything but French. And even after restricting the search to French Google has the audacity to propose that I limit myself to Danish results only...

OK, I then meekly changed focus to French only, using the menus provided. The first hit ...

FR: ... était en effet en Français, une référence a un article de deux pages à universalis.fr, dont seulement la première page était disponible pour non-abonnés. Le deuxième lien m'a mené à ... un article de Wikipédia en Basque!!!!!!!!!! Eh bien, il se peut qu'il y ait encore quelques Euzkadiphones en France, mais la majorité se trouve en Espagne, ... et j'avait commissionné Google à me trouver des articles en français. Naturellement il y a un article en français aussi à Wikipédia, quoiquoi pas de l'ampleur que j'aurais attendu (celui de la version anglaise est en effet plus long), mais à ce point mes inclinations linguistiques m'a fait temporairement égarer ... ou en autres mots, j'ai commencer à scruter l'article basque pour chercher quoique ce soit que je puisse reconnaitre, et en effet, c'était tout à fait possible avec un article factuel comme celui-ci - avec un roman ou poème j'aurais eu des problèmes..

OK, regardons:

Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre (Paris, 1665ko martxoaren 17a - 1729ko ekainaren 27a) frantziar musikagile eta klabezin jole handia izan zen.

Élisabeth Jacquet de La Guerre ou Élisabeth-Claude Jacquet de La Guerre1 (née Élisabeth Jacquet, 17 mars 1665, paroisse Saint-Louis-en-l'Île de Paris – 27 juin 1729, Paris) est une compositrice et claveciniste française.

Apparemment on met -ko à la fin des années et -a à la fin des jours. Martxoaren est mars, mais ekainaren (juin) n'est pas aussi facile à décoder.

Ensuite, frantziar musikagile eta klabezin devrait signifier quelque chose comme "français(e) musicien(ne) ... clavecin". Mais "eta"? J'ai consulté Google Translate, qui soutient que le passage complet signifierait "musiciens et clowns français". Vraiment *? Je trouve que madame Jacquet mérite mieux que ça! D'ailleurs GT propose que klabezin signifie "clavezin". Or il n'existe pas un tel instrument (sauf en allemand de la 17. ou 18. siècle) - en français ça doit être clavecin.

Le passage "jole handia izan zen" est plus sibylline, mais GT donne la traduction (Il) était un grand joueur. Si on prend chaque mot en isolation on obtient "jole" (ou joueur) "super" (ou grand), mais "izan zen" serait apparemment deux formes du verbe copula, respectivement "que ce soit" (ou avoir) et "était-ce" (ou "il était"). Mystère ... mais en tout cas l'ensemble dit que madame Jacquet était une grande instrumentaliste, et c'est aussi ce qu'on lit dans les biographies, comme ici chez www.musicologie.org:

En 1673, Claude Jacquet présente à la cour de Louis xiv sa fille prodige Élisabeth. Pendant quarante ans, son talent d'interprète et de compositrice va faire le bonheur de la haute société. En 1691, le jour de la sainte Cécile, Le Mercure Galant signe anonymement une Epistre de Monsieur de Lully à Mademoiselle De La Guerre célébrant la première musicienne du monde. » Magnifique claveciniste, brillante improvisatrice, elle s'imposa d'abord à la cour, sous l'ombrelle de Madame de Montespan, en tant que virtuose, puis comme compositrice, cultivant presque tous les genres pratiqués à l'époque, jusqu'à l'opéra et à la cantate. C'est toutefois pour ses pièces de clavecin et pour ses œuvres de chambre qu'on retient plus particulièrement son nom aujourd'hui.

Jacquet-de-la-Guerre.jpg

GER: Ich have übrigens meine persönliche Büchersammlung durchgeschaut und dort "Baskisch Wort für Wort" in der Serie Kauderwelsch, "Baskische Grammatik" von C.Benel (auf Buske Verlag) und "euskara alemana/Deutsch Baskische Wörterbuchiztegia" (sic!) vom Verlag Elkar gefunden ... aber zurzeit habe ich keine Zeit Baskisch zu lernen.


*EDIT: I have now understood where the clowns entered and why you need the "eta" ('and'): ... frantziar musikagile eta klabezin jole handia .. is translated by GT as "grand musicien et auteur-compositeur français" - so everything happened because I included the clavecin (harpsichord) and omitted its player. Garbage in, garbage out! ... but hey.. where did the clavecin go ?? Methinks GT read and took exception to my condescending comment to its idiosyncratic spelling habits?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 14962

Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed May 02, 2018 9:18 pm

SW: Men inte allt är fransk eller baskisk eller tysk - eller engelsk, även om du ibland skola tro det... Jag har i dag sett et avsnitt av den norska serie "Norsk attraksjon" med Linda Eide på NRK ... men det var inte norska sevärdheter som blev demonstrerat: hon var åkat till Sverige, var hon bland annat såg ett ganska löjligt eksemplar av en skelögd uppstoppad lejon fra 1700-talet, som svenskarna stolt förevisar på slottet Gripsholm. En kung hade fått den som gåva, och när den dog varade det länga innan någon beslutade att den borda stoppas upp - och den stakkars hantverkare som fikk uppgåvan hade uppenbarligen aldrig sett ett lejon i levande livet. Programmet innehöll också en omnämnande av Gävles jättestora julbock av halm, som olagligt bränns av varje år. Och det verkade fast som om stadens invånare var stolta över sina kreative julepyromaner. Dessutom ätades våfflor och smörgåsar, men jag såg inte svenskarne inta den beryktade surströmming, som stinker så illa att den kan få en dödgrävare (asbagga) att spy.

NO: Linda har òg ei anden serie på NRK, kaldt Eides Språksjov, kvar hun med gjester sina (plus eitt elorgel) gjer greie for sjove saker i det norske språket.

EN: I have also watched TV from other places - like for instance one episode in a series about the 100 years' war. I have written about this war earlier in this thread, so this time I'll just express my amazement at the fact that the French lost one battle after the other because of the English longbow soldiers who mercilessly routed the French noble cavalryers in spite of all their armour, and that this didn't induce the French kings to get something similar - at least not before the French under Charles VII got heavy artillery, a pucelle named Jeanne d'Arc and intelligent military leaders like de Guesclin, who only fought oldfashioned battles when it was necessary, and Jean Bureau who in the battle of Castillon took the opportunity to defeat and kill John Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury, who in an attempt to secure Gascony for the English crown attacked a French army without waiting for reinforcements.. what an idiot! But this effectively ended the 100 years war with a setup where England had lost all its French possessions except Calais.

By the way, Shrewsbury was one of the cities I visited on my trip to England in April. It was also one of the towns where I spent a night during my second interrail trip in 1973 - and slept in a youth hostel where the host had the habit of playing merry tunes on his bagpipe in the morning to wake up his customers.

F0118a01_Shrewsbury_Castle.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests