Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby cito » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:10 pm

Sorry to hear about this Iversen. It's always hard losing someone, no matter the circumstances. Condolences.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby lingua » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:14 pm

Sorry to hear that @Iversen. Even when expected it is still a sad event.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:26 pm

Thank you for all the kind greatings. I started the day by choosing the tombstone, then witnessed that the undertaker and his assistant drove off with the coffin, and when the stone has been carved my sister and I will see the urn being lowered into the grave I chose yesterday afternoon - without any big ado because my mother had expressly wished a quiet burial. This afternoon I have emptied most of the drawers and cupboards in her house with clothes and put them into into plastic bags so that they can be handed over to a recycling organisation - and it was amazing how many of those pieces of clothing I haven't seen for years - my mother didn't like to throw things away, but it has to be done now.

I'm writing this on my new laptop with a mobile hotspot connection. Actually I bought it several months ago, but I have hardly used it. All the programs I'm used to (and which I have tuned to my personal needs) are on my old tower which I can't use here because there isn't any internet connection. Oh well, there is a fiber in the road just outside the house, but my mother didn't want to have an internet connection in her house - so I had to try this, but I am still not comfortable with this new thingy. It's quite a jump from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and some of my preferred programs may not even be available any longer, so I have to get the old PC down here at some point.

And languages, I have read some more Occitan and done repetitions of some old French wordlists which I made earlier this year (based on a dictionary from 1932). I have not had time to finish the popes in Portuguese yet, but maybe it's time to mention some of the gory details from the first half of the book.

POR: Há capítulos horríveis aqui sobre a repressão brutal dos cátaros e sobre os julgamentos de bruxas e a inquisição, mas também capítulos mais alegres, como aquele sobre a pornocracia nos séculos IX e X. Parece que os papas durante esse período geralmente só sobreviveram cerca de um ano (9 papas entre 872 e 904), depois foram assassinados e, nesse meio tempo, fornicaram e festejaram. De acordo com o livro, foram as mulheres que controlaram as eleições papais por um período. No início era Agiltrude da família nobre de Spoleto, depois uma certa Teodora e sua filha Marozia, mas fora isso todos os papas tinham amantes e filhos. Um deles, Giovanni XII, chegou a ter um bordel montado numa ilha do Tibre, mas também fornicava com a mãe e as irmãs.

Outro, Stefano VII, estava tão zangado com seu relativamente honrado predecessor Formoso que mandou desenterrar o corpo e sentenciá-lo... eu quase disse á morte, mas ele foi simplesmente despojado de toda dignidade e três dedos e jogado no Tibre. Mas os cidadãos de Roma pescaram o corpo do rio, e um papa posterior anulou a sentença - após o que um papa ainda mais tarde condenou o corpo novamente, após o que os cidadãos de Roma pescaram os magros restos do corpo ainda uma vez e os enterraram novamente - mas sem a cabeça e mais três dedos.

E Marozia foi colocada na masmorra mais profunda do Castello san Angelo por seu filho mais novo ofendido, Alberico, onde viveu por 54 anos até morrer aos 96 anos - e, enquanto isso, foi Alberico quem escolheu os papas à vontade.

LAT: o tempora o mores!

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:16 pm

The last couple of evenings I have been doing repetitions of the old French and Russian wordlists that had accumulated at my mother's place - in both cases several hundred words. And I have read some more lessons in Occitan as goodnight reading so the main new thing is an old one: when I left home I grabbed a Catalan magazine named El Correu de la Unesco, and its theme is "ciència i ciència-ficció". However it was printed in 1984 (of all possible years!) so science looked slightly different back then. It is easy to read, which was lucky since I didn't bring along a Catalan dictionary. Actually the first word I didn't understand occurred at page 8 and the next one ("empanatanegueu") came at page 10 in an article written by the renowned SF author Isaac Asimov. Which makes me remember something troubling about the library in my town:

In the olden days of yore it had a good collection of SF in Danish and English written by authors like Jules Verne, HG Wells, Heinlein, Asimov, Clark, leGuin, Bradbury and many many others. But then we got a new library that cost a fortune, but has fewer books on the shelves :shock: - and the good old SF authors were among those who have been relegated to dark cellar vaults somewhere in the town which aren't even accessible to the users, and that means that we now get a generation who is blissfully unaware about a whole classic genre - actually the last one which I still occasionally found it worth dealing with (I discovered the lacuna while searching for Julian May's Pliocene exile). Just about the only author who survived the debâcle was Tolkien because he is seen as a fantasy author, not SF, and now he is surrounded by books that belong to the fantasy genre and mostly look like something written by a robot to promulgate computer games. I have no idea why this was done, only the responsible librarian must be a total utter idiot.

CA: Com he escrit més amunt, la ciència ha progressat des del 1984 (que, per cert, no s'assemblava en res a la conjectura de Aldous Huxley). Per exemple, Asimov escriu que no se sap si realment existeixen exoplantes, però avui sabem que n'hi ha molts. La qüestió és si podrien acollir vida, perquè si requereix aigua líquida i carboni i condicions força constants durant milions d'anys, el nombre de planetes rellevants s'estreny considerablement. I en 1984 era completament impensable que es pugui registrar el genoma complet de l'Homo sapiens, menys encara dels neandertals. Però el suec Paabo acaba de rebre el Premi Nobel per aquest èxit.

A la meva televisió tinc diversos canals on una colla de "teòrics" i "investigadores" intenten dir-me que tots els grans èxits del passat van ser fets per o sota la supervisió d'"extraterrestres". Com es van construir les piràmides d'Egipte? Extraterrestres. Com es col·locaven les pedres enormes dels temples de Balbek? Extraterrestres. I què es troba a la làpida del rei Pacal a Palenque i què representa l'antiga figura japonesa de sota? Aliens amb vestits espacials, haha. La resposta a cada misteri és: extraterrestres. Però el sòl per a això va ser fertilitzat pels escriptors de ciència ficció. Així, sembla que quan es purga las bibliotecas, les mateixes idees apareixen a la televisió.

FR: Incidemment, le prix de physique a été donné cette année à Alain Aspect, dont la réalisation la plus importante a été de prouver expérimentalement le théorème de Bell et donc l'intrication quantique), aussi connu comme le paradoxe de Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen ou la non-localité. Imaginons un processus qui produit deux particules avec le spin opposé. Problème: on ne sait pas lequel des deux possède quelle 'direction' de spin ('direction' ici ne doit pas être prise litéralement), mais si on mesure le spin de l'un on saura automatiquement aussi le spin the l'autre parce qu'ils sont opposés. Or selon les grandes têtes, le spin n'est déterminé avant qu'on le mesure! Problème: ceci est le cas même si les deux particles entretemps se sont éloignés tellement loin l'un the l'autre que la transmission de l'information devrait dépasser la vitesse de la lumière - et selon Einstein les objets ne doivent faire ça :twisted: . Mais apparemment c'est possible pour du moins certains informations (et pour l'espace lui-même), et c'est Aspect qui l'a prouvé expérimentalement. D'ailleurs, j'ai écrit quelque chose sur le théorème de Bell sur HTLAL, mais cela s'est déroulé il y a une éternité, et j'ai oublié les détails.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:45 am

Yesterday evening I did something rather unusual: I listened to Youtube videos in a number of Romance languages the whole evening instead of listening to music while doing written stuff, and luckily I was generally satisfied with my comprehension level. Of course you can always find words you don't know, but the treshold to pass is that you can keep your general comprehension together in spite of the holes. And I could do that, period. I can't speak all of them (not Occitan, Galego, ...) but still managed to keep afloat through my knowledge of their relatives.

It all started when I read Nooj's latest contribution to the Occitan thread, where he served links to some Youtube videos by 'Parpalhon Blau'. I never got around to the interview with the Japanese professor, but listened to an interview with 'Couch Polyglot' who is Catalan, but speaks a bunch of other languages - she has even published a video where she interviews an Italian dialect specialist in Italian. And then I of course also listened to some of Ecolinguist's quizzes and some touristical videos in European Portuguese.

The comments to the list below will be in at least some of the Romance languages, and I really tried to resist the temptation to try writing in Occitan - it would take a lot of time, and the result would probably still be full of errors... but

OCC: mai pas podèvi resistir la tentacion completament :oops: ... Lo primièr lou Parpalhon parlèt amb un cantant occitan (jo arrestei quand començava de cantar!), mas après trovei un intervèu amb la catalana Laura (Couch Polyglot), e alara èi menat al catalan.

CAT: La papallona blava parlava en occità a la Laura i hi havia subtítols en anglès, però per no distreure'ls vaig anar a la cuina mentre escoltava, i va funcionar de totes maneres. Parlaven de llengues en general, i per sort Laura no va començar a cantar enmig de l'entrevista. Al marge dret vaig veure referències al relat del propi Coach Polyglot i aquí em vaig adonar d'una entrevista amb Enric, un YouTuber català a Londres, i després un vídeo on una sèrie de cataloparlants de diferents localitats parlaven el seu propri variant de català (o valencià en un cas, on la persona era d'una ciutat del sud de València, on d'altra banda s'escolta majoritàriament el castellà - encara és català però es diu valencià.). Després vaig escoltar un vídeo on la Laura parlava català i l'Enrico parlava gallec. No estudio gallec, però sembla una mica com un portuguès primordial, i per cert, he sentit-ho - per exemple hi havia televisió gallega als satèl·lits Astra, però l'antena parabòlica de la meva mare va deixar de funcionar fa uns anys. Quan vaig tornar a escoltar l'idioma, sonava menys 'portuguès' del que recordava, ..

POR: e por isso encontrei um dos vídeos do Ecolinguist, onde um galego Mario dava tarefas a dois brasileiros e um português. E aqui a impressão foi a mesma: o galego é semelhante ao português em termos de gramática e vocabulário, mas soa mais 'neutro' (se se pode dizer isso de uma língua). Continuei com o início de um vídeo do MOPC Linguística em galego, mas durou 40 minutos, então guardei-lo para depois e voltei ao Coach Polyglot para ouvir uma entrevista em ...

IT: italiano con Francesco, che a quanto pare conosce tutti i dialetti italiani e ne può parlare diversi (anche se in alcuni casi con ovvia difficoltà). È stato fatto notare che i cosiddetti dialetti dovrebbero forse essere considerati piuttosto delle lingue, in quanto non provengono dall'italiano standard (principalmente di ispirazione toscana ed un'invenzione relativamente tarda). È un problema ben noto che comprende anche, ad esempio, il basso tedesco (Platt) e i dialetti dello Jutland in Danimarca, ma quando uno standard viene stabilito a livello nazionale, c'è la tendenza a considerare tutte le altre forme di linguaggio nel paese come dialetti. Non ricordo se parlavano del sardo, ma è per lo più questa è generalmente considerata una lingua a parte, proprio come il Romantsch.

CAST: Escuché dos videos más de Ecolinguist. En el primero, un mexicano hizo preguntas a un italiano y un brasileño, y en el segundo, hablantes del francés, italiano y catalán tuverieron que descifrar el occitano, el que funcionaba razonablemente bien - al menos podrían mantener la conversación en marcha.

POR: Al final escuché once minutos sobre Lisboa en portugués con un autoproclamado louco (a la derecha)...

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Carmody » Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:12 pm

Iverson, our condolences go out to you. The loss of one's mother is a special, big loss. Try to give yourself time to heal.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:21 pm

My mother may be gone, but she will leave a distinct mark on my future life: I going to move into her house permanently and sell my flat. Before that I have to throw out her clothes and old translated novels from a book club and things like that to get space for my own things, but I keep most of the furniture and some of the books, and I also intend to leave some of paintings on the walls (mostly landscapes) - but it has to be possible to find space even for some of my own belongings. There is already one full wall with surrealistic paintings there, but I have a lot more than that in my flat (around 150), and I want to see them too. And yesterday I measured the shelf space taken up by my books and photo albums so that I can start planning how to keep them in the future.

The irritating thing with my compositions and my paintings is that I have made something material which in principle should last longer than me, but I'm not optimistic about that - they'll almost certainly end up at the recycling station in the container marked 'small combustibles" :? . The good thing about languages (and travel memories) is that I KNOW that those I have learned will disappear with me (maybe even earlier) so there is no reason to nurture false hopes.

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While writing this I have been listening to a multilingual discussion between 'Poliglotta per passione' and 'Coach polyglot' (in EN, IT, ES, FR, GE, RU, CAT), and before that I made text studies while listening to seven hours of Scriabin. The texts I worked on were the following ones:

... excuse me, I just had to find something more to listen to - I'll continue in a moment


OK, back to today's languages studies:

First I transcribed a page more of Georgian, as usual without understanding much, but I do check the translation, and some words and syntactical structures then become transparent - but don't expect to see passages in Kartuli (ქართული ენა) in this log anytime soon.

After that a page in Albanian about the biblical deluge, which the Albanians always call 'the big deluge' ('Përmbytjes së Madhe').

AL: Dihet mirë se tregimi i Biblës bazohet në një legjendë më të vjetër nga Mesopotamia për Ut-napishtimin, i cili u urdhërua të ndërtonte një arkë si Noeu. Më vonë, Platoni përsërit rrëfimin, dhe sot kanalet supersticioze pretendojnë se ajo bazohet në kujtimet e vërteta të përmbytjes së Detit të Zi në shekullin e VII para Krishtit. Haha...

And after that I continued with the end of the Ukrainian article about the alan Aspar, who became a very influential person in Eastern Rome around the time of Attila.

UK: Я раніше писав про це.

More Slavic, this time about a shopping center in the Bulgarian town Silistra (which I haven't visited.. yet), and I finished the series with
a Polish text about the municipal library of Stargard -

POL: .. i faktycznie odwiedziłem to miasto, ale nie jego bibliotekę. Popłynąłem z Kopenhagi do Świnoujścia w 1990 roku, a potem kupiłem bilet na pociąg do Krakowa ze Szczecina - ale popołudnie spędziłem w Stargardzie, który jest pięknym starym, otoczonym murami miastem. Ale nie poszedłem do biblioteki, bo nic nie rozumiałem z języka polskiego.

And while I wrote these things I have been listening to one more video with 'Coach polyglot', this time in Swedish.

SW: Hon pratar med Oskar från 'Lätt svenska med Oskar', och man kan höra att hon inte är lika hemma på det språket som hon är på till exempel tyska eller italienska, men det går bra ändå. Men det var en enkelt pytteliten sak som irriterade mig: flera gånger frågar hon (på engelska) vad ett eller annat heter på svenska, men tyvärr går Oscar i fällan och svarar själv på engelska - självklart fick han servera den svenska översättningen!

And by the way: I have also made stereo versions of several of my paintings today. I have described the processus earlier in this thread so I'll spare you the details this time.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:12 am

Yesterday evening I read the chapter about the Borgias in my Portuguese book about the popes, "A história negra dos papas", and I finished it this morning, starting with the chapter about Galilei - who probably was wise enough not to mumble "eppur si muove" on his way out of the court room. But for all his scientific prowess he was not wise enough to avoid offending Pope Urban (before that a friend and clandestine supporter) by writing a book that discussed different cosmologies and letting an intellectual non-entity named Simplissimus defend the offical stance of the Church, which was that the Earth was in the center of the world and everything else circled around it, basta - and don't you dare to contradict it!

However ...

IT: .. la cosa più interessante nella seconda metà del libro foi i capitoli in cui è stata descritta la fondazione dell'Italia, la cosidetta "risorgimento". Questo movimento prese slancio dopo l'anno rivoluzionario del 1848, e una figura di spicco fu il re Vittorio Emanuele II di Savoia, che aveva la sua capitale a Torino. Parti dell'attuale Italia erano ancora sotto il dominio austriaco, ma per il resto erano soprattutto il Papa e lo Stato Pontificio a causare problemi per il re ed il suo primo ministro Cavour. Il re fu riconosciuto come re d'Italia già nel 1861, ma l'imperatore francese Napoleone III protesse Roma finché perse la guerra contro la Prussia nel 1870. Spinto dalle truppe di Garibaldi, Vittorio Emanuele allora scelse di invadere Roma, ma si fermò fuori dal Vaticano proprio.

Il papa dell'epoca era Pio IX (detto 'Pio Nono'), che inizialmente era stato relativamente liberale, ma era gradualmente diventato fermamente conservatore (era lui che dichiarò il papa infallibile in materia di fede, haha), e assolutamente rifiutò di negoziare con il nuovo stato, che egli considerava come opera del diavolo. Invece si dichiarò "prigioniero del Vaticano", e tale situazione continuò fino al 1921 (con quattro 'prigionieri' che non si erano mai avventurato fuori dal Vaticano dopo le sue designazioni), quando un nuovo Papa, Pio XI, si rese conto della futilità della situazione e fece un patto con Mussolini. Le trattative furono guidate da Pietro Gaspari, che poi divenne papa lui stesso come Pio XII - e che, suo malgrado, dovette sopportare la seconda guerra mondiale e i nazisti nel Terzo Reich.

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby sfuqua » Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:32 pm

So sorry about you mother. i remember well the wrench I felt when my mother died. Even though it was long expected, it was still hard to believe. Take care.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Elsa Maria » Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:02 pm

I am sorry to hear about your mom, and I hope that the move goes smoothly.
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