Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

[Ogrim]

Besides Iversen's excellent advice on language learning, it is the nonEnglish Notlanguagelearning parts that make this log so interesting. Thanks to Iversen's writings I've discovered classical composers I'd never heard of before and the musings into archeology, history etc. are really worth a read. Besides, it's fun to discover that I can actually make sense of what is written in e.g. Afrikaans, which I've never studied. And I also use Google if it's a language I don't understand at all.

[Iversen]

EN: Actually I have spent a lot of time these days listening to music and trying to write down the main themes. The point is that I have had four music collections. First I bought LP records .. ([GE]: ich war damals ein armer Jugendlicher, aber man konnte in den 60er Jahren klassische LP Aufzeichnungen in der Grenzbazaaren südlich der deutsch-dänischen Grenze für 5 DM kaufen - und sonst im Angebot zu Hause in Dänemark). Bald habe ich ein Kassettenrecorder gekauft und habe etwas unsystematisch musik gesammelt - und damit habe ich meine zweite Sammlung bekommen. [EN]: In the years 91-92 I got tired of the mess and decided to make a second cassette collection, where the music of each major composer was concentrated on as few tapes as possible - and then I filled out the holes with minor composers. For this collection I used my own collctions and added new recordings from material in the libraries (which is and was legal because a ferro tape is an analog medium). I had collected themes already for the first collections, but now I of course made one sheet for each new tape.

My fourth collection was created when I transferred the collection from 91/92 - plus all material collected after 91/92 - to files a couple of years ago, when it occurred to me that tape recorders might be difficult to buy in the years to come. One nice touch was that I could move single pieces around with the excellent program Audacity and thus get an even more orderly collection. I did however retain the format corresponding to the A and B side of an old cassette tape - both for sentimental reasons and to simplify the transfer, but also because I intend to be sitting in my armchair until the end of my life, listening to this fourth and last collection while studying languages and other topics from written sources. And 40-50 minutes in a row from one file would be excellent to divide my study time into suitable slices where I don't have to bother about choosing a new piece every five minutes or so.

EO: Kaj nun mi devas kompreneble ĝisdatigi mian temokolekton tiel ke ĝi korespondus al la musikodosierojn, kaj mi ankaŭ devas plenigi ĉiujn truojn. Kiel ? Mi unue uzis la partiturokolektojn de pluraj bibliotekoj, sed nun mi aŭdas la muzikon, kaj se mi povas trovi la musikon en la kolektoj de IMSLP.org, mi povas ankaŭ ĉerpi temojn de tie - provizita ke estas muziko en la publika domajno. Sed unu el la avantaĝoj de havi decideme malnovajn gustojn en muziko estas ke la plimulto de miaj preferataj komponistoj mortis dum pli ol 70 jaroj.

FR: Certain compositions chez IMSLP sont reproduites d'un manuscrit - et parfois c'est le compositeur lui-même qui a été dans la situation tragique (voire humiliante) de ne pas avoir pu trouver un éditeur. Un manuscrit écrit par the compositeur lui-eme est nommé un holographe, et puisque j'essaie maintenant surtout d'ajouter la musique de compositeurs mé- et malconnus je vois souvent des holographes quand je consulte IMSLP. Mais c'est surprenant de trouver des holographes - sans éditions imprimées - de certaines oeuvres écrites par des compositeurs bien connus comme par example Jean-Philippe Rameau. L'image ci-dessus est le début d'une opéra nommée Zéphire (la version française du nome du dieu grec du vent d'ouest) - évidemment j'ai seulement une suite instrumentale de cette oeuvre dans ma collection (je véhémentement déteste les sons désagréables émanantes des bouches des chanteurs et cantatrices opératiques) - mais il faut tout de même noter les thèmes.

La musique écrite sous l'ancien régime est d'ailleurs problématique à noter puisque on écrivait généralement les notes en valeurs égales - mais par convention on jouait la musique comme si les musiciens étaient tous assises dans une voiture roulante avec des roues carrées sur un terrain rocheux. Et puisque je préfère que ma collection de thèmes réflète les sons plutôt que l'aspect visuel des notes utilisées par les musiciens j'écris la musique comme je l'entend avec mes propres oreilles. La même considération évidemment s'applique à la musique encore plus vieille avec basse continue - et à certaines pièces pour piano ou la mélodie est enchevêtrée dans une éffusion accablante de notes de courte durée.

Raméau_Zéphire.jpg

[tarvos]

I have now checked the homepage of the Polyglot conference in Reykjavik 2017 with the intention of proceeding to the actual booking of flight tickets and accommodation - provided that the prices wouldnt't too ridiculously exorbitant - but then I saw that the submission of lecture proposals ended already in April, and my interest waned.

That, and the prices, is the reason I am probably skipping this one, even though Richard asked me to come.

And, as I told you in Bratislava - I will always have time for you. Including this log.

[Iversen]

POR: Mais uma vez um dia com música no programa - mas eu vejo agora algo tão raro como televisão no Português. Um equipe brasileiro mostra como fazer filmes com zumbis rastejando para fora da terra para matar matar matar - i com detalhes sangrentos tal como cadáveres que se rasgam no meio porque as suas pernas são emperradas no túmulo no momento onde eles sobem ... é quase talmente ruim quanto telejornais i telenovelas ... mas você pode perdoar-lhes muito quando falam português brasileiro que eu não ouço com muita freqüência.

Kunst016.JPG

[Iversen]

SP: Hoy he leído algunos artículos de 2015 sobre el volcán Calbuco en Chile. He visitado el país en 1996, y en efecto yo estuvi en la ciudad de Puerto Varas - unos 60 kilometros del volcan y el punto más meridional de mi viaje (porque el tren a Puerto Montt entonces por motivos desconocidos no estaba en circulación). Busqué material de lectura sobre Chile, y era natural, pues, escribir "Puerto Varas" en el campo de búsqueda de Google, y entonces vi a mi sorpresa que Calbuco tuvo una gran erupción volcánica en 2015. Puerto Varas se encuentra en el extremo oeste del lago Llanquihue y ubicado al este del lago hay dos volcanos (Osorno y Calbuco) y otra ciudad Ensanada. He escrito lo siguiente en mi diario acerca mi visita volcanica en 1997 (a medio camino entre un brote en 1972 y el de 2015):

DA: 14/9: Blå himmel og udsigt til 2 vulkaner (Osorno og Calbuco). Forgæves søgt rutebil til Ensenada; i stedet spadseret ud ad landevejen til der kom en minibus. Stået af ved vejgaflen, hvor én vej fører rundt om søen, den anden til Petrohué. Fulgte den første og beså området omkring Laguna Verde. Skoven heromkring vrimlede med bl.a. kolibrier. Bagefter spadseret et stykke op ad Volcan Osorno. Tilbage fra føromtalte vejgaffel til Puerto Varas med minibus (på 'guidesædet'). Siesta, derefter et par timers spadseretur.

EN: OK, maybe not the world's most exquisite poetry and not very elaborate as a diary entry - but sufficient to remind me about my activities back then.

SP: BBC escribió (en 2015) esto: "El Calbuco, ya había entrado en erupción en 1961 y mostró algo de actividad en 1972, es el segundo volcán que entra en erupción en Chile desde que el 3 de marzo lo hiciera el Villarica. En el país hay 90 activos." Ahem, Villarica? Otra destinación durante mi viaje - el lugar donde me refugié en una pensión poseída por un señor de edad que había emigrado de Alemania - un hombre amable que mi sirvió Apfelkuchen gratis.

Hay muchas personas de ascendencia alemana/austríaca en la región fertil y verde entre Villarica y Puerto Montt. Una ciudad como Frutillar a las orillas de Lago Llanquihue era efectivamente un vero idilio tirolés, y allí yo visité un museo de la inmigración alemana. Y aunque entonces no estaba particularmente fascinado de lenguajes hablé a veces alemán, pero más a menudo español (a nivel tarzánico) - y Inglés solo a mi dueña en Puerto Varas, una dama estadunidense que apreciaba la oportunidad de poder hablar Inglés a un cliente - todos los otros en su vecindad hablaban solo español (o alemán)..

Cuando llegué a casa, me pegai un susto: una de las tres pilas pequeñas redondas en mi cámara estaba quebrada, por lo que sólo habia dos imágenes del inicio del viaje en mis rollos de película. Por lo tanto tengo que ilustrar esta diatriba con una imagen de Wikipedia mostrando el penacho de Calbuco, como se lo vio desde Puerto Varas en 2015. Y también una pintura que yo hice para sacar la decepción.

Calbuco_2015.jpg

Kunst199.JPG

PS: Calbuco es el volcan nevado a la derecha. Es posible que se vea de manera diferente hoy.

[Iversen]

Today I have been watching watching the quiz QI, which after Stephen Fry's long reign now has got a knowledgeable lady of Danish ancestry named Sandy Toksvig as "nøgleperson" (yes, that's what she has dubbed the quizmaster role - it means "key person" in Danish). And I think she has the right personality for the task - tough as a nail and with an acerbic sense of humour.

One of the questions referred to the largest mishap that has happened to "Dogger". After the unavoidable detour around 'dogging' we ended up where we should, namely in the middle of the North Sea at the Dogger Bank, which is an area with very low water in the middle of a lot of water. And then I couldn't resist the temptation to read a few things about it on the internet in a number of Germanic languages. But let me first express my astonishment at the fact that this body of water is called the North Sea in English - even though it patently lies to the East of the British Isles. The names "Nordsee" in German, "Noard See" in Frisian (Frysk), Noordzee in Dutch and are all correct and logical , and we Danes mostly call it the "Vesterhav" which also is totally logical seen from our geographical perspective - "Nordsøen exists", although it is rarer (a silly old loan from Low Germanj, I presume). But English "North Sea" ... how did that happen? And dear Faroese, why did you adapt the (Low) German name and call the thing "Norðsjógvurin" when every salty drop in it is located to the South East of your territory? In Icelandic it is called either Englandshaf or Norðursjór - the first inspired by the geography as seen from Iceland, the second - again - borrowed from German.

The "Dogger Bank" is apparently named after the type of boats used by old Dutch fishermen. But it has not always been a bank. Actually is was a hill or highland until roughly 8000 years ago, when the vast piece of dry land known as Doggerland was submerged. There are good long articles in the Danish, German and English Wikipedia and a somewhat less verbose one in the Dutch version ... but as far as I can see none in any of the two Frisian versions (Frysk and Nordfriis). This is strange since Friesland could have been a major European power if most of it hadn't disappeared under the rising waters.

Did I say 'rising waters'? Well, actually it has been suggested that the area wasn't quietly inundated over hundreds of years (because of the rise in sealevels caused by melting icecaps) - it could have happened in one or maybe up to three cataclysmic events because of the socalled Storegga Slide(s). If you want all the details then you can find a scholarly article here, but the less patient among us can read a shorter article in English about it in Wikipedia. Basically an area to the North of the North Sea proper is assumed to have collapsed, causing enormous tsunamis that drowned everything and everybody in the flat plans between the current great Britain and Denmark. The weakness in this line of reasoning is that the water then would have seeped quietly out again to whence it came, so the rise in sealevel is still a necessary element in this chain of events.

By the way, a German group has published a map that shows submerged land not only between Great Britain and Denmark, but all the way around the British Isles (see below). Doggerbank is situated at the most Easterly star on this map.

Kunst130.JPG

Doggerland.jpg

[Iversen]

DU: Ik noemde de Noordzee boven, en die ik heb gebruikt als een kans om te onderzoeken wat Wikipedia voor al het buurtalen heeft te zeggen over de kwestie. En het viel me op dat de Friese teksten waren ongelooflijk verschillend. Het heeft me altijd verbaasd dat het Fries en (oud) Engels als één gemeenschappelijke tak op de grote boom woord bedacht. Wat definieert deze tak?

Ons omnisciënte orakel zegt dit:

Generally, Old Frisian phonologically resembles Old English. In particular, it shares the palatalisation of velar consonants also found in Old English. For example, whereas the closely related Old Saxon and Old Dutch retain the velar in dag, Old Frisian has dei and Old English has dæġ [dæj]. When followed by front vowels the Germanic /k/ changed to a /tʃ/ sound. The Old Frisian for church was tzirke or tzerke, in Old English it was ċiriċe [ˈtʃiritʃe], while Old Saxon and Old Dutch have the unpalatalised kirika.

Er is iets dergelijks in de Nordische talen - terwijl Zweeds heeft een initiaal /tschjsjhssss/-achtig geluid in kyrka (kerk), Deense heeft de eenvoudige /k/ behouden. Dit heeft ons niet veroorzaakt om te werken met een vitaal onderdeel van de Noord-Germaanse groep. Er is ook een andere geluidontwikkeling, wat word gebruikt als criterium voor een aparte anglofrisisch subgroup binnen de West-Germaanse talen:

The Ingvaeonic nasal spirant law (also called the Anglo-Frisian or North Sea Germanic nasal spirant law) [which] is a description of a phonological development that occurred in the Ingvaeonic dialects of the West Germanic languages. This includes Old English, Old Frisian, and Old Saxon, and to a small degree Old Dutch (Old Low Franconian).

Compare the first person plural pronoun "us" in various old Germanic languages:

Gothic uns
Old High German uns
Middle Dutch ons

Old English ūs
Old Frisian ūs
Old Saxon ūs

of hetzelfde boodschap in het Fries:

Yn dizze fernijings lizze foar in grut part de ferskillen tusken de Noardwestgermaanske talen en de Súdwestgermaanske talen. It is lykwols al sa dat de Ingveonismen har foar in part ek oppenearre hawwe yn 'e Nederfrankysk-Nedersaksyske subgroep fan 'e Súdwestgermaanske talen

Zeker - Duitsland en Nederland hebben een n, terwijl de Fries en Engels dit n hebben laten vallen, maar het heeft ook in de Scandinavische talen.. Is het nog steeds een goede maatstaf? Ik ben geen expert op dit donkle fase van het West-Germaanse taalen haar geschiedenis, maar voor mij lijkt het meer op een dialect continuüm waarin de criteria elkaar kruisen in een verwarde puinhoop. Er zijn gewoon niet twee volledig gescheiden takken.

De realiteit van vandaag is dat het Engels zijn eigen weg in de kosmische hemel heeft genomen, terwijl het Fries - op zijn kleine achtergeblevene gebied - beïnvloed is door Nederlands in het westen en door Platt / Deens in het Oosten. Hier zijn een paar tekst clips om die verschillen tussen West- en Noordfries te illustreren:

Noordfriisk: Önj et dånsch än önjt nordfriisk wårt Weestsiie brükt. Oudere spräke brüke mååstens Nordsiie, dåt üt üüljfrasch perspektiiwe önjtstiinjen as.

Frysk:De namme [Noardsee] komt fan de relaasje fan de Noardsee mei it lân fan de Friezen. Sy wenje direkt súdlik fan de Noardsee, bewesten de Eastsee, noard fan de eardere Sudersee (no de Iselmar) (...). Yn it Deensk hjit de Noardsee nêst Nordsøen ek Vesterhavet, de Westsee, om't de Noardsee west fan Denemark leit.

Kunst084.JPG

The map below, which shows the presumed subdivisions of the Germanic languages around the year 1, is of course also borrowed from Wikipedia. One notable feature - at least for us Danes - is that Proto-Jutish back then was placed on a different branch than the Northern Germanic Proto-Norse spoken on the Danish islands and on the Scandinavian peninsula. This split is actually something I have mentioned earlier - and also mentioned in my speech in Bratislava. There will be one speech about the genealogic language tree model in Reykjavík - but not by me. I discovered the deadline far too late.

Germanic_year_zero.jpg

[Iversen]

I have been reading texts in a number of languages since Monday, but to keep this message short I'll just comment on those in Portuguese. I once bundled a set of texts about the extinct giant Sloths AND added one more text about a fertile soil created by the inhabitants of Amazonas in earlier times, when they were both more numerous and less pestered by the representatives of modern times.

POR: O que é a terra preta? Citação:

“A Amazônia era intensamente povoada a cerca de 2.500 anos atrás, período do qual data, em média, a Terra Preta Arqueológica”, explica Dirse Kern. Segundo ela, o hábito de fazer “lixeiras” onde eram depositados e se acumulavam os restos orgânicos da vida cotidiana das populações indígenas, por vezes levava as aldeias a se deslocarem para outros locais, permitindo a formação destas grandes áreas de composto, já utilizados naquela época para a prática agrícola. “A Terra Preta que conhecemos hoje é fruto do lixo dos povos daqueles tempos”, explica a pesquisadora

A razão pela qual Amazon foi densamente povoada antes da chegada dos espanhóis (e muito menos agora) é, provavelmente, a mesma 'accidente' que ajudou os consquistadores a derrotar os Incas e outros populações das montanhas: os conquistadores trouxeram doenças do velho mundo contra as quais os índios não tinham nenhuma resistencia. Nas montanhas o declínio da população significou que os sistemas de irrigação já não foram mantidos, e na selva significava que não foi adicionada mais terra preta - mas o autor do artigo afirma que os tribos de hoje ainda colocam as suas aldeias nas areas de terra preta, porque esto tipo de solo está tão ricamente fértil.

Infelizmente, os governantes e empreiteiros modernos não compreendem quanto esta única terra poderia valer e, aparentemente, não foram muitos pesquisados visando a achar metodos para adicionar nova terra preta. Em vez a gente destrui as áreas onde já existe..

A preguiça gigantes extintas foram mencionadas em vários dos textos que eu li. A imagem abaixo , no entanto, vem do sitio prehistoric-wildlife.com (no inglés), mas ilustra muito bem que grandes algunas delas forem. As primeiras espécies (do Oligoceno) não foi maiores do que as preguiças que escalam nas árvores hoje - mas especialmente alguns dos espécies mais recentes foi tremendamente grandes. O artigo afirma que as últimas morrerem apenas 2-3,000 anos atrás em Cuba e Hispaniola. Há relatos da América do Sul que deixem suposar que posiblemente ainda há espécimens vivos - mas nenhum fundo seguro.

ground-sloth-size-comparison.jpg

[Iversen]

RO: Astăzi am citit câteva texte romanesti pe care l-am colectate și tipărite după vizita mea la Cluj-Napoca la inceputul anului.

Se pare că a avut loc la Cluj în 2016 o reuniune anumenită Tech Fest cu 3.800 de participanți, dintre care 500 au participat la concursuri (inclusiv un zi de "hackathon"). A avot loc, de asemenea, accesul liber la diferite companii din industria tehnologiei informației, și într-un alt articol se menționează (cu mândrie) că o companie românească a primit numeroase premii internaționale pentru un program de gestionarea crizelor.

Dar și Cluj ca oraș a participat la un concurs. Conform planului un de patru orași la România o să avea posibilitea de a deveni capital cultural Europei (1 dintre 2) pentru 2021: Baia Mare, București, Cluj sau Timișoara. Și câștigătorul a fost ... Timișoara! Și acum probabil toți locuitorii în Cluj au plâns? Dar poate fi că asta nu-i așa de rău. Eu locuiesc într-una din cele două capitale culturale Europei pentru 2017 și eu nu pot observa nici o diferență. Au loc multe evenimente, și avem musei bune etc. etc., dar nu cred că am participat la un singur eveniment au vizitat un singur loc cultural care au avut loc/existat doar în virtutea acestei numiri. Sînt unele steaguri atârnăt în afara stației de cale ferată - Ura! Ura!. Unde a dispărut banii?

Dar oricum: Felicitări pentru Timișoara.

[Iversen]

LA: Ex insula Fionia reversus sum. Pars Daniae est et saepe ibi fui, sed nunc plerumque loca visitavi nova. Cur istud nec danica sermone scribo? Quia in haematostichon domum cogitavi quomodo excursionem meam latine describere, et post imagines photographicas disponatas et in computralio redditas nunc listam de favoritis sitorum subsidiorum latinitatis consultavi. Hic "Lexicon Latinum" Davidis Morganis rursus inveni - longe oblitum - et non desistere potui legere modo ut me oblectare cum verbis quam millstone: lapis molaris, bagpipe: fistula bicornis, cello: violoncellum et bubonic plague: pestilentia glandularia. Nescio an translationes Morganis de aliis autoribus usatae sunt, sed ubi consensus deest melius est propositionem autoritatis - se bona sit - adoptare quam ipse conicere. Cur non istud librum digitale saepius usus sum? Ratio simplex est: in sectionibus semanticis liber divisus est: ".acsr" (anglice accessory), ".adm" (anglice administration), ".alch" (anglice alcohol) et cetera, et quavis utracumque sectio in ordine alphabetice apparet, non simpliciter est librum utere.

EN: During my trip to Fyn (Danish island) I visited several libraries, and it always surprise me to see how good they can be even in fairly small towns. In Rudkøbing (not on Fyn, but on a nextneighboring island called Langeland) I read Illustreret Videnskab and found several articles about very old things, which I'll have to check up on now that I have got computer access again. Like a notice about finding melted remnants of the very first crust which the Earth formed. Researchers from the University of Ottawa studied 2.7 bio. years old rocks from NE Canada and found splinters with a very high content of Neodymium-142, which allegedly only was formed during the first 500 mio. years of the history of the Earth - so even though these rocks later have been melted they must represent the first generation of rocks here on this planet.

Another very old thing: researchers from the Museum of Natural History in Stockholm have found traces of red algae (Rhodophyta) which allegedly are 1,6 bio. years old - but look more or less like the ones you find today. OK, why change something that works? If these algae are as old as the Swedish reasearchers claim they have survived among other things the great glaciation called Snowball Earth some 600 mio. years ago (maybe preceded by other complete or almost complete glaciations). How did they do that? The same issue of the magazine also had something about giant sloths, but I have already written about those critters here - no need to repeat oneself.

DU: In de trein naar huis amuseerde ik mij met een Nederlandse wetenschappelijke tijdschrift naamens Kijk - maar laten we ermee omgaan een andere keer.

DA: Jeg nævnte Rudkøbing ovenfor. Denne lille by har fostret én berømthed, nemlig den store fysiker H.C. Ørsted, der opdagede elektromagnetismen i 1820 (en vis Ramagnosi havde dog opdaget den i 1802, men uden at det blev almindeligt kendt) og aluminium i 1825. For sprognørder kan det herudover være interessant at vide at han skabte henved 2000 danske ord for at udrydde fremmede lån. Ikke alle slog an, men når vi danskere siger "brint" (for 'hydrogen') eller "ilt" (for 'oxygen') er det takket være H.C.Ørsted at ingen andre aner hvad vi taler om.

Familien-Ørsted.jpg